How much of basketball talent is based on genetics?

[BobbySura]

So for years we've seen genetic freaks like LeBron take over the league. Obviously, guys like LeBron worked on their games and became better than just being able to outrun and outpower their opponents. While guys like Stromile Swift faded into obscurity because they relied on their athleticism too much.

My question is...how much does this really matter?

If average joe 1 worked just as hard as Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, how far could he go in the league? I'm talking a guy who is between 5'9 and 6'. He doesn't jump very high or run very fast, but he works hard in the gym so he's strong and he's in good shape with terrific endurance. Is this guy doomed because of his genetics?

You see shorter players in the league - but players like Nate Robinson, Muggsy Bogues, Allen Iverson are all athletic studs...they just didn't get the benefit of height.

Is there any amount of effort and dedication that can make the average dude a star?

[raptorsfan24]

A LOT of it is about athleticism and height which pisses me off because im not athletic or tall . I mean you can work very hard and become a very good player but u just aren't gonna be playing in the NBA or any pro league because of all the athletic freaks if you are 5 foot 9. This makes me wish that I played soccer or hockey or something like that which doesnt require height and your vertical is not important.

[markjay]

So for years we've seen genetic freaks like LeBron take over the league. Obviously, guys like LeBron worked on their games and became better than just being able to outrun and outpower their opponents. While guys like Stromile Swift faded into obscurity because they relied on their athleticism too much.

My question is...how much does this really matter?

If average joe 1 worked just as hard as Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, how far could he go in the league? I'm talking a guy who is between 5'9 and 6'. He doesn't jump very high or run very fast, but he works hard in the gym so he's strong and he's in good shape with terrific endurance. Is this guy doomed because of his genetics?

You see shorter players in the league - but players like Nate Robinson, Muggsy Bogues, Allen Iverson are all athletic studs...they just didn't get the benefit of height.

Is there any amount of effort and dedication that can make the average dude a star?

Is there even a single player in the NBA 6' or und who's not a terrific athlete??

[Stolen Team Fan]

One way to tell is look at comparisons between NBA fathers and sons. Far more of them are worse than their fathers than are better. In fact I can only think of 2 players that are better than their fathers were (Kobe and Steph Curry).

[peja drobnjak]

So for years we've seen genetic freaks like LeBron take over the league. Obviously, guys like LeBron worked on their games and became better than just being able to outrun and outpower their opponents. While guys like Stromile Swift faded into obscurity because they relied on their athleticism too much.

My question is...how much does this really matter?

If average joe 1 worked just as hard as Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, how far could he go in the league? I'm talking a guy who is between 5'9 and 6'. He doesn't jump very high or run very fast, but he works hard in the gym so he's strong and he's in good shape with terrific endurance. Is this guy doomed because of his genetics?

You see shorter players in the league - but players like Nate Robinson, Muggsy Bogues, Allen Iverson are all athletic studs...they just didn't get the benefit of height.

Is there any amount of effort and dedication that can make the average dude a star?

Is there even a single player in the NBA 6' or und who's not a terrific athlete??

earl boykins was fast, and so is john lucas III, but they're not in the league because of their quicks

they' were in cuz boykins could make plays and lucas can shoot

[D.Brasco]

If you're 5'9" to get into the NBA you need to be MORE of an athletic freak:

[justinian]

Proof for genetic


Proof against genetic

[D.Brasco]

Proof for genetic


Proof against genetic

Height has to skip a generation in the jordan family. I believe mike's dad was short too. So watch out for MJ's grandkids everybody!

[NOODLESTYLE]

6ft" and under usually needs to have speed/quickness and probably a jumper like Damon Stoudemire, listed at 5'10" and got ROY.

[LeChosen1]

I see people with Kobe like bodies at the gym and everyday They dont put in as much work though

[NOODLESTYLE]

Mark Price is another.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sua9u318wGo[/youtube]

[DTHAI17]

If average joe 1 worked just as hard as Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, how far could he go in the league? I'm talking a guy who is between 5'9 and 6'. He doesn't jump very high or run very fast, but he works hard in the gym so he's strong and he's in good shape with terrific endurance. Is this guy doomed because of his genetics?

If you work as hard and as efficiently as Kobe or Michael, you're not going to be slow. People often blame genetics for their lack of hard work and effort. height, on the other hand, is almost purely genetics

[spearsy23]

Proof for genetic


Proof against genetic

Both of Jordan's sons were d1 basketball players, that is proof FOR genetic.

[Blame Rasho]

If average joe 1 worked just as hard as Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, how far could he go in the league? I'm talking a guy who is between 5'9 and 6'. He doesn't jump very high or run very fast, but he works hard in the gym so he's strong and he's in good shape with terrific endurance. Is this guy doomed because of his genetics?

If you work as hard and as efficiently as Kobe or Michael, you're not going to be slow. People often blame genetics for their lack of hard work and effort. height, on the other hand, is almost purely genetics

You might not be slow, but that doesn't mean that you will have NBA level lateral ability, quickness and etc.

Let me give you an example, I can work as hard as I possibility can, and I will not have the hand speed of a various world class boxers. Genetics do play a huge part in separating people from being world class and not being a world class athlete.

[jc23]

i would say 75% of being an NBA player is what your genes gave you. The rest is hard work and mental fortitude.

[cjs55]

Without a certain genetic baseline you have absolutely 0% chance of getting in the NBA, even if you're the most skilled player in the world. But once you get past that baseline there's a pretty big spread of how much players rely on genetics.

Basically, the taller you are, the less skill you need (the more genetics matters). If you're 7'0 in the NBA then genetics are a primary factor of what gets you in the NBA: You still have to work every day and bust your ass, but you don't have to be as super-skilled as a 6 footer.

If you're 6'0, then if you get in the NBA then you're insanely skilled at the game. You could still be a genetic freak as far as jumping goes which would make skill a little less necessary, but no matter what incredible skill is necessary, it's just a matter of degree.

However, incredible skill is not necessary for an average center. Their job is basically to be able to run up and down the floor, catch the ball, and block shots. That basically boils down to mostly genetics (being tall and also being able to not break down as you play the game) and having basic work-ethic.

M.J. is the perfect hybrid of insane skills and genetics. Which is what you need to be the best, obviously, because anyone with more skill or better athleticism will be better than you.

Stockton or Nash clearly have worse genes for the game than M.J. or even Vince Carter. Not to say they aren't athletic, but they lack in the most important genetic attributes for basketball: Being tall and jumping high. Still, with great body control, a great skill level and great b-ball IQ level you can become great, and far greater than say a Gerald Green with better genes.

[tsherkin]

When did "jumping high" become one of the most important genetic attributes for the game of basketball?

Vertical is perhaps THE single-most overrated element of a player's game.

Lateral quickness, base strength, change of direction ability and skills are all WAY more important than leaping ability, especially since even the freak athletes don't max out their leaping ability on a regular basis. How FAST you reach the peak of your vertical and how many times you can jump before someone else comes down, that's something very different, of course.

Blech.

[KyletheDingbat]

When did "jumping high" become one of the most important genetic attributes for the game of basketball?

Vertical is perhaps THE single-most overrated element of a player's game.

Lateral quickness, base strength, change of direction ability and skills are all WAY more important than leaping ability, especially since even the freak athletes don't max out their leaping ability on a regular basis. How FAST you reach the peak of your vertical and how many times you can jump before someone else comes down, that's something very different, of course.

Blech.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. If you can jump over everyone that's a huge advantage. In fact you can base your whole game around having great hops. Helps with getting your shot over defenders, getting rebounds, defense and recovery, and getting the highest % looks at the bucket. Guys that can dunk with ease have such an advantage over everyone who can't at the gym that they basically dominate the game.

[BobbySura]

When did "jumping high" become one of the most important genetic attributes for the game of basketball?

Vertical is perhaps THE single-most overrated element of a player's game.

Lateral quickness, base strength, change of direction ability and skills are all WAY more important than leaping ability, especially since even the freak athletes don't max out their leaping ability on a regular basis. How FAST you reach the peak of your vertical and how many times you can jump before someone else comes down, that's something very different, of course.

Blech.

you're completely missing the point, vertical was just an example.

and to others in this thread, i don't mean "average dude" in terms of average for the entire nation. i mean average in terms of people who are actually athletes. obviously john goodman isn't going to make an NBA team.

but lets use Adam Morrison for an example.

Let's COMPLETELY forget everything we know about him. Let's take Morrison for what he is. Below average athlete by NBA standards. Guy dominated at college but fell on his face in the NBA. Now, I feel like he SHOULD had been able to do better if his attitude/mental approach was better so...

Take Morrison at his athletic ability and put the work ethic of Kobe or Jordan in him. How far does he go? Can he become an all time great or does he end up as a specialty player?

[louizzle]

What's annoying is when genetically gifted ball players don't take FULL advantage of it due to work ethic and ignorance.

I personally know people who are so skilled basketball wise but it can only take them so far because they simply can't match the athleticism in higher levels of basketball. If they had a fraction of athleticism some of these gifted athletes have I'm almost positive they'd be killing it out there.