RealGM

I think the league has made improvements by adding the side line review. I still think they, miss a lot but its way better then it was. Now when there are close games or close calls at least they can review to see how tipped it last or if the shot went in the basket in time. They can also check the 3 pt line shots.

But there is more to do. The goal should be to call as close to a perfect game as possible.

1) They say they are trying to stop the flopping and I do get the impression that things are better but it does still go on.

2) They should also be able to review close fouls that happen if game is with in say 6 pts and its the last 4 mins of the game. Something like that. I will give an example in a min. Not sure how they should implement this but something should be done so bad calls don't decide games.

3) This one has bother me a lot of the last week. Why is there not 5 second clock on the inbound. Seems so obvious. Its a set 5 second just like they is 24 per possession. They even have the clock and everything. Just set it to 5 seconds. When the ref hands off the ball, start the clock. If it expires the buzzer goes off and the red light goes on the basket. Make zero sense to me why they have a 24 sec shot clock and don't use the same clock for inbound plays.

Ok, back to reviewing fouls. This is what happened to the Wizards last night. They had rallied from like 20 down on insane shooting from 3 from Trevor A. They actually went up by 2 last in the 4th. They had been getting robbed all night by the refs but they came back anyway. Gorat and Nene has already fouled out. Then these two played happened.



First watch TA. He is playing back from Harden.
Harden walk up to him. Puts his left hand into TAs chest. Plants his left foot and pushes TA into Howard.
That a foul right there. End of play but lets go on
TA puts his right arm on Hardens left and and places his left on Harden side so he can feel where he goes. He doesn't pull on him.
Then TA gets picked by Howard and when he stops moving Harden leans his chest into him then clamps down on his right arm and pulls him into him, then flops his head back and flops.

My God. If I was TA I would be checking to see if I still had my underwear. He gets pushed, picked, pushed again, then pulled over top of Harden. Harden mugged him and TA was the one that got called for the foul lol. And that was #6 so now Nene, Gortat and TA are gone.

Now on one hands, all the things Harden did to get that call shows and extreme amount of talent and acting but he pushed TA right in the chest into Howard. Its a foul. Never mind the clamping down on TA arm to pull him and the flop at the end.

And all this happened before the in bound that was maybe at the 5 second mark, but there is no timed visual clock to refer to. They ref called this a foul on TA. They went to review it to but they could only review it to see if the foul they called happened before the in bound. They can't review the foul they called. They can't review if it was actually 5 second or not.

The result. They said it happened before the in bound. HOU to the line for 1 FTA by Harden while HOU was down by 2. He makes it. AND they get the ball back. That was a terrible call and it was happening all night. They took what was a great comeback, HOU down 2 looking to tie or take the lead with a 3 and turned it into a 1 pts game where HOU could now get a simple 2 to win. And that's ignoring foul was on Harden, should have been Wizards ball up 2 with like 10 seconds left.

HOU had 47 FTA to WIZ 16 and all of Nene, Gortat and TA fouled out. Trust me, there were tones of bad call. Obvious ones.

So then this happens.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/truth_about_it/status/433809529709809664[/tweet]



Howard sets moving pick
His feet never stop moving so it can't be a legal pick. He is never set.
And as he is moving into Wall, he uses him hands to actually pushes Wall in the chest.
Then he grabs Walls arm as you see in the picture. ( I guess this pushing and holding is a HOU thing )

Back to back terrible calls. The result, HOU got the one FTA they made, then the ball back and Harden scores so they go up by 1 with like .8 seconds left.

REF should not be deciding the games like this. The NBA has to keep working at improving how they call the game and how they use technology. A 5 second in bound clock being the most obvious no brain thing to do. Makes not sense why they don't have one.

Oh, forgot to mention, Wizard got called for a 5 second violation earlier in the 4th. HOU got away with not one but two close calls on inbounds LOL

Oh, and another things. With whiner Howard and The Flop Harden on the same team, HOU is now my most hated team. These two are now my two most hated players. They are punks. Now I know why MWP clobbered Harden. I hate seeing talented players play like punks and I hate more watch refs let them get away with it.

If Harden doesn't get fined for that then the league might as well just do away with the anti-flopping rules altogether. I mean, what's the point then?

rockmanslim wrote:If Harden doesn't get fined for that then the league might as well just do away with the anti-flopping rules altogether. I mean, what's the point then?

Whats the fine again. $500 ?

Harden makes $13,668,750

If they really cared to stop it that would suspend a player one game if caught doing it, no one game working crap. If you did it, you did it.

Now to be clear, the holding isn't a flop. Holding is holding. HOU got called a few times for doing it this game. Just seems to me they are all on the same page with playing this style of basketball. Pushing in the chest then holding. I wonder if Harden is sharing what he does with other players. Very Reggie Miller and I hated the way he played.

Point is, those are fouls. The added flop at the end was just the icing on the cake.

That's so 80/90's.

what comes around goes around
this make up for the hold Nash had on Lin allow Blake open to hit the game winner earlier this season

hands11 wrote:HOU had 47 FTA to WIZ 16 and all of Nene, Gortat and TA fouled out. Trust me, there were tones of bad call. Obvious ones.

there were bad calls going both ways
10 of those FTA because of hack-a-howard
wizards take a lot of jump shot
you aren't going to get foul call shooting 3 and long 2 (ariza+wall)

Unfortunately, holding and grabbing your opponent to gain leverage has been around a long time.

Reggie Miller was well known for holding players and pushing off in order to get free for a shot.

Ray Allen (doesn't do this as much as he used to) but he was known intentionally hooking his opponents arm with his arm, and then act like he's being held by the guy in order to draw a foul.

KG is used to set illegal moving screens all of the time. He'd hold players just enough to allow his teammates to go by unimpeded for a layup.

All of these "tricks" are passed down from NBA greats and veteran players.

They don't call it a foul, they call it "creating space".

It is nothing to whine about, Harden was just playing smart basketball. If you don't want fouls don't throw people on the floor.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/433823375765413888[/tweet]

ubernathan wrote:It is nothing to whine about, Harden was just playing smart basketball. If you don't want fouls don't throw people on the floor.

And so is murdering the opposing team prior to the game, doesn't mean it's right.

Why is it always the same narrative with Harden-apologists? "cheatin gets him extra points , stop complaining haterS!

What he's doing is wrong and is not real basketball. The NBA allows it because they want a false parity by creating "superstars" out of all-stars by awarding them absurd amounts of freethrows.

Technical fouls need to be called on flops.

Harden is an absolute piece of ****.

Yeah, Harden is a tool.

As he gets away with this crap over the years against other teams, more fans will hate him and disrespect him, his team, and the league for letting him get away with it.

I think Harden has gone under the radar as a hated player because he got good press having been associated wth OKC and KD. Then people wanted to see if he could do it on his own. With Houston they added Lin and he was a good story. Plus they had Chandler Parsons who was a good story late pick. But now they have Howard so they are no longer and underdog of under the radar team and its been years since Harden was with OKC so that has warn off.

I think more fans will come to hate Houston as much as they hate LAC's with CP3 flopping around. OKC, SAS, GS, DAL and PHX are clearly easier team to like.

I hate any player that makes intentionally cheating a part of their game. Reggie was a tool. LeBron was also but he seems to have gotten better.

I don't even mind the offensive foul, it happens when players get tangled but the head tilt and flop afterwards is what makes watching Harden so freaking unbearable. Then you have to put up with the announcers going off about his craftiness in drawing fouls.

So the foul wasn't Ariza having two hands on Harden?

the second clip of the Dwight screen is worse then the Harden flop. Literally slid out further to hold Wall.

The first one Harden initiated the contact though and drove Ariza into Dwight.

HTown_TMac wrote:So the foul wasn't Ariza having two hands on Harden?

You do have eyes right?
You did watch the video I posted, right?

What is the first foul you see ?
You don't see Harden moving tword TA and TA actually moving backward away from him ?
Do you see Harden put his left hand into TAs chest, plant his foot and push him into Howard ?

That's the first foul and the first foul is the foul that should be called.

As for TA having his hands on him, players have their hands touching each other all the time. Thats not a foul. A foul is pushing them or holding them. Not touching them. Not unless its their arms when they are shooting.

hands11 wrote:

HTown_TMac wrote:So the foul wasn't Ariza having two hands on Harden?

You do have eyes right?
You did watch the video I posted, right?

What is the first foul you see ?
You don't see Harden moving tword TA and TA actually moving backward from him ?
Do you see Harden put him left hand into TAs chest, plant his foot and push him into Howard ?

That's the first foul and the first foul is the foul that should be called.

As for TA having his hands on him, players have their hands touching each other all the time. Thats not a foul. A foul is pushing them or holding them. Not touching them. Not unless its their arms when they are shooting.

+1

If you don't see Harden initiating the contact then you need to make an appointment with an eye doctor.

Despite Harden holding, still looks like a foul to me. Ariza's momentum just pushes Harden enough for him to lose his balance (cover the top portion of the clip and just watch Harden's legs & feet)

Harden averages almost as many FTs per game as the Knicks whole team it seems

hands11 wrote:

HTown_TMac wrote:So the foul wasn't Ariza having two hands on Harden?

You do have eyes right?
You did watch the video I posted, right?

What is the first foul you see ?
You don't see Harden moving tword TA and TA actually moving backward away from him ?
Do you see Harden put his left hand into TAs chest, plant his foot and push him into Howard ?

That's the first foul and the first foul is the foul that should be called.

As for TA having his hands on him, players have their hands touching each other all the time. Thats not a foul. A foul is pushing them or holding them. Not touching them. Not unless its their arms when they are shooting.

My eyes show me Ariza putting his hand around Harden at the same time as Harden places his hand on Ariza's chest. Two plays that happen during basically every inbound play involving a pick. I personally think it's a no call, but to say it's an offensive foul is not true. Plus in most instances it will go to the offensive player. Whether you agree or not, no matter what was called.. A problem would've arisen from either side. This was a lose-lose situation for the refs.

lakerhater wrote:

hands11 wrote:

HTown_TMac wrote:So the foul wasn't Ariza having two hands on Harden?

You do have eyes right?
You did watch the video I posted, right?

What is the first foul you see ?
You don't see Harden moving tword TA and TA actually moving backward from him ?
Do you see Harden put him left hand into TAs chest, plant his foot and push him into Howard ?

That's the first foul and the first foul is the foul that should be called.

As for TA having his hands on him, players have their hands touching each other all the time. Thats not a foul. A foul is pushing them or holding them. Not touching them. Not unless its their arms when they are shooting.

+1

If you don't see Harden initiating the contact then you need to make an appointment with an eye doctor.

If initiating contact is your only argument against the foul call, then you must not watch Harden (and many other offensive players) play very much.

If anything, locking arms is a common no-call, but running a player to the floor is something that will force the refs to make a call. Harden sold it well, but it's not unlike when Nash or other PGs running with the ball, who put on the breaks causing the trailing defender to run them over (it's sly, but it's still a foul).