RealGM

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/a-tale-of-two-cities-phoenix-and-philly-plot-different-courses-to-contention/

I think when you're teams like the Suns and Sixers you have to look to the draft for stars because they're more then likely not coming to you in free agency

EricAnderson wrote:I think when you're teams like the Suns and Sixers you have to look to the draft for stars because they're more then likely not coming to you in free agency

revolutionary opinion there

but LA OR NY aren't doing well either. .

If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail. It will either land a superstar or draft so many good players that they will gather a solid NBA team.

This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

madmaxmedia wrote:

If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail. It will either land a superstar or draft so many good players that they will gather a solid NBA team.

This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

They also end up trading "solid" players. they are built around trying to obtain star talent, not solid players. I don't know if it's really a success if it takes them 7 seasons to make the playoffs

Jadoogar wrote:

madmaxmedia wrote:

If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail. It will either land a superstar or draft so many good players that they will gather a solid NBA team.

This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

They also end up trading "solid" players. they are built around trying to obtain star talent, not solid players. I don't know if it's really a success if it takes them 7 seasons to make the playoffs

5 years theyll be on their big contract extension so the first talent will be able to bolt

NYKBaller wrote:

Jadoogar wrote:

madmaxmedia wrote:
This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

They also end up trading "solid" players. they are built around trying to obtain star talent, not solid players. I don't know if it's really a success if it takes them 7 seasons to make the playoffs

5 years theyll be on their big contract extension so the first talent will be able to bolt

Its rare that leave on that first contract extention...especially with our injury prone dudes lol.

Bleh, its all about player progress. If Okafor turns out to be a stud, Noel continues to develop, they add another top 3 talent next year, Stauskas looks decent & Saric comes over next year & looks good there is no reason why a big name FA wouldn't consider coming to Philly.

madmaxmedia wrote:

If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail. It will either land a superstar or draft so many good players that they will gather a solid NBA team.

This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

The goal is not to have a solid team. The goal is to have a TITLE CONTENDING TEAM

Yeah, I'm sure fans of the teams like the Raptors like to brag about how good & solid their team is, when realistically they have 0% chance to win the title. Yeah I said, I would bet the lives of each of my family members & every penny of my life savings, and even say that if the Raptors won the title next year the gods could give me flesh eating bacteria & cancer that a "solid" team like the Raptors will win the title.

THE GOAL IS TO WIN A TITLE. You do that by finding a superstar. Ask 80% of 76ers fans, if it takes 5+ years to develop a team that contend, well then so be it, we'd be fine with that. Because honestly building the way we are, if it ends up working, we'll not only have a great team, we'll have a team that is great with plenty of young players so it will be a perennial contender. The Warriors drafted Curry 6 years ago. They were able to get him because they stunk. They continued to suck, added players like Klay Thompson. Curry develops into a Star, and 6 years later boom they win the title.

Championships teams take time to develop, unless you get extremely lucky, like the Celtics did when they get KG & Allen. But lets not forget, The Celtics were able to get those players because they acquired assetts, cap space, and got the #5 pick in the draft to use as trade bait. They also had Paul Pierce who turned into a star.

Sonics got Durant after sucking ass, they then won like 19 games, YES 19 games! They then got Westbrook, still sucked, they got Harden, and over the course of the next few years they developed into a contender. Because they built through the draft. Now they are perennial contenders.

Every contender has basically built through the draft.

It's such a weird article.

The Suns are impatient and now a treadmill team.

The Sixers on the other hand.....well, they suck too, so I don't really know.

But other execs don't like the way Hinkie is operating, so....take that Philly!

The 76ers were a solid team with Jrue Holiday - Iggy - Turner - Thad Young, yeah, could we make the playoffs, and maybe win a round? Sure, who gives a flying fk, that is not the point of building a team. The point is to build a finals contending team. I don't care if this 76ers rebuild takes 5+ years, which in undoubtedly will, because if it works out we will see progress during those 5 years. Okafor could end up winning ROY, we could get a possible franchise player in the 2016 draft.

I've said it before & I'll say it again. If I was given the ability to be the GM of any team in the league right now, the 76ers, Bucks, T'Wolves would be in my top 10 choices because of their potential down the line here.

BNelley24 wrote:

madmaxmedia wrote:

If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail. It will either land a superstar or draft so many good players that they will gather a solid NBA team.

This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

The goal is not to have a solid team. The goal is to have a TITLE CONTENDING TEAM

Yeah, I'm sure fans of the teams like the Raptors like to brag about how good & solid their team is, when realistically they have 0% chance to win the title. Yeah I said, I would bet the lives of each of my family members & every penny of my life savings, and even say that if the Raptors won the title next year the gods could give me flesh eating bacteria & cancer that a "solid" team like the Raptors will win the title.

THE GOAL IS TO WIN A TITLE. You do that by finding a superstar. Ask 80% of 76ers fans, if it takes 5+ years to develop a team that contend, well then so be it, we'd be fine with that. Because honestly building the way we are, if it ends up working, we'll not only have a great team, we'll have a team that is great with plenty of young players so it will be a perennial contender. The Warriors drafted Curry 6 years ago. They were able to get him because they stunk. They continued to suck, added players like Klay Thompson. Curry develops into a Star, and 6 years later boom they win the title.

Championships teams take time to develop, unless you get extremely lucky, like the Celtics did when they get KG & Allen. But lets not forget, The Celtics were able to get those players because they acquired assetts, cap space, and got the #5 pick in the draft to use as trade bait. They also had Paul Pierce who turned into a star.

Sonics got Durant after sucking ass, they then won like 19 games, YES 19 games! They then got Westbrook, still sucked, they got Harden, and over the course of the next few years they developed into a contender. Because they built through the draft. Now they are perennial contenders.

Every contender has basically built through the draft.

And it's also about high-upside. You don't want to turn into the Suns.

I think other execs don't like what Philly is doing because they like to pull the wool over their fans eyes by makign their teams perennial 8-5 seeds, with no hope to win anything except some extra revenue in the playoffs. Good luck Phoenix Sun execs & fans, you have no shot to be a contender down the line because you rushed the process and now have little means to finding a superstar.

**** are really in this thread popping ****?

we suck and have no way of knowing if things will work out. One of our biggest pieces to our dynasty literally may never suit up for us. We cannot look down on other teams right now. ATM we are no better off than anyone. Lets wait and see how it plays out before popping bottles

immortalone23 wrote:

BNelley24 wrote:

madmaxmedia wrote:
This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

The goal is not to have a solid team. The goal is to have a TITLE CONTENDING TEAM

Yeah, I'm sure fans of the teams like the Raptors like to brag about how good & solid their team is, when realistically they have 0% chance to win the title. Yeah I said, I would bet the lives of each of my family members & every penny of my life savings, and even say that if the Raptors won the title next year the gods could give me flesh eating bacteria & cancer that a "solid" team like the Raptors will win the title.

THE GOAL IS TO WIN A TITLE. You do that by finding a superstar. Ask 80% of 76ers fans, if it takes 5+ years to develop a team that contend, well then so be it, we'd be fine with that. Because honestly building the way we are, if it ends up working, we'll not only have a great team, we'll have a team that is great with plenty of young players so it will be a perennial contender. The Warriors drafted Curry 6 years ago. They were able to get him because they stunk. They continued to suck, added players like Klay Thompson. Curry develops into a Star, and 6 years later boom they win the title.

Championships teams take time to develop, unless you get extremely lucky, like the Celtics did when they get KG & Allen. But lets not forget, The Celtics were able to get those players because they acquired assetts, cap space, and got the #5 pick in the draft to use as trade bait. They also had Paul Pierce who turned into a star.

Sonics got Durant after sucking ass, they then won like 19 games, YES 19 games! They then got Westbrook, still sucked, they got Harden, and over the course of the next few years they developed into a contender. Because they built through the draft. Now they are perennial contenders.

Every contender has basically built through the draft.

And it's also about high-upside. You don't want to turn into the Suns.

Exactly, look, every fan has a right to defend their teams and enjoy watching their hometown team hit the court, but I honestly feel bad for Phoenix fans. They were in a great spot to continue building a good team through the draft. Now they've hit that spot where they are good enough to contend for a playoff spot but miles away from contending. You could praise the Suns FO for signing a guy liek Chandler to help make their team better, but honestly I'd ridicule them, because adding Chandler does nothing to make them a contender and only worstens their future draft position. I don't necessarily blame the Suns FO because this is just how the NBA works.

BNelley24 wrote:I don't care if this 76ers rebuild takes 5+ years, which in undoubtedly will

That's totally fine, and it's your right. The problem is that a lot of people do care. From the article:

Philly needs to nail the draft, because big-time free agents don’t appear willing to consider the Sixers until they start winning a respectable number of games. Some agents have even called around to other teams, trying to ignite trade talks that would get their players out of Philadelphia, according to several league sources.

Some fans may be willing to wait forever. Some fans are surely not. But if the *players* aren't willing to put up with it then that strategy may be asking for trouble.

The Knicks already have a star, and the Lakers are still the Lakers...and we've seen what's happened to those teams in free agency this year. The Sixers (or any other team) can still try to build by losing, but the margin of error gets a lot smaller in an NBA where every team has cap space and players want to win.

BNelley24 wrote:

madmaxmedia wrote:

If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail. It will either land a superstar or draft so many good players that they will gather a solid NBA team.

This part I disagree with. You can build a solid NBA team in much less than 5 years, if that's what the Sixers end up with then the whole thing was a failure.

The goal is not to have a solid team. The goal is to have a TITLE CONTENDING TEAM

Oh yeah, I totally understand that. My point was that if after 3 to 5 years of basement-dwelling seasons, all the Sixers end up with is a solid team, then that's a failure (as opposed to what Zach Lowe was saying.) Because you could have built that much quicker and with less pain.

I'm not saying the approach is good or bad, just how we judge the results. With a great front office, a 'good' NBA franchise might win say 480 games over a 10-year period (just a guess at relative 'goodness', didn't look up actual records.) But the allocation of those wins will depend on the team's long term strategy, and most all teams will have some peaks and valleys. So the Sixers are willingly eating a lot of losses now, the plan of course is to more than make up for it later.

If they end up with a 50 win team in a few years, then obviously they will likely win less than 480 games over a 10-year stretch and Heinke's 8-10 year run will have been judged unsuccessful. But that's obviously not the goal.

BNelley24 wrote:I think other execs don't like what Philly is doing because they like to pull the wool over their fans eyes by makign their teams perennial 8-5 seeds, with no hope to win anything except some extra revenue in the playoffs. Good luck Phoenix Sun execs & fans, you have no shot to be a contender down the line because you rushed the process and now have little means to finding a superstar.

I don't think they rushed the process, so much as just made some really questionable moves. They were looking pretty good with Dragic and Bledsoe even though they had a 2 point guard backcourt, then inexplicably added another. And then when that went sour, they started re-shuffling the PG's they had, now you read about how they want to move Bledsoe (not sure if they actually are or not.)

The frightening part of that article was that he's suggesting the Sixers are going to keep this going for another 4 or 5 drafts and Josh Harris is happy that he is turning a profit thanks to revenue sharing. Expect that thing to be hammered to death in the next CBA negotiations.

Meh, I'd rather be a Sixers fan (even if this tanking plan turns to crap and Embidd can't hit the court) right now than a Suns fan.

This article from Lowe serves as a good reminder that avoiding tanking won't necessarily get you any better results than tanking.

Zach Lowe accurately points out Phoenix isn't tanking, Bledsoe was acquired in trade, they're actually trading away valuable picks like the Lakers pick, and going 100% for free agency. Phoenix vs Philly going in opposite directions.

But like most teams, they didn't land a star in free agency. Just like you don't necessarily land a star in the draft.

And the additional note here is that all rival execs agreed Phoenix did a great job, by hiring a coach LMA likes (Watson) and a player LMA likes (Chandler). But even after doing a great job, they didn't land him. The lesson is that free agency is just as much a crap shoot as the NBA lottery. Pick your poison.

The Suns know they may never get a star via free agency or trade. But they’ll keep trying, and they can develop all of their young players in the meantime.

And it won't get any easier to go free agency instead of drafting.

Winning recruiting battles because of cap space will get even harder next summer, when 20 or more teams with max room could be elbowing each other for a shot at Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Mike Conley, Howard, or some other huge name.