Will the Pistons finally make the leap?

[tayottt]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a Pistons fan.

I just love NBA basketball and have been thinking a lot about which teams will be better than expected and which teams will be worse.

Based on the tape I watched last season I believe the Pistons are going to break through and have a winning season this year. For the past three years there have been media members that have talked about the Pistons making the playoffs but each and every one has ignored the actual construction of the team.

Greg Monroe, Andre Drummond, and (even) Josh Smith are talented basketball players but they don't fit together.
The spacing for the team has been bad and they've been unable to score or defend at a high level.

However, based on what I saw last season I feel they have the bones to be a 45 win basketball team this year.

Factors

Fit: After many years the team finally makes sense from a fit perspective. They have complimented Drummond with a PG that can attack,pass, and finish out of the PnR (Reggie Jackson), and have surrounded that attack with adequate shooters from the 3pt line (Ilyasova, Meeks, Tolliver, Pope, Marcus Morris Jennings). Toward the end of the year that Reggie/Andre PnR was eating teams up.

Defensively the team seems to make more sense as well. Rather than trotting out the corpse of Tayshaun Prince, they drafted Stanley Johnson (a long wing that should be able to guard 2-3 positions) and they acquired Ersan/Marcus who can switch onto 2s, 3s, and 4s.

Talent: From a talent standpoint they still are in the top 10 in the East. I personally think they have more talent than the Celtics and Nets. In terms of talent they are competitive with the Pacers, but they have the lead in...

Continuity: Most of this roster has had a year to learn under Stan Van Gundy. Players should feel more comfortable and actions should flow more easily. Especially on defense, where they were terrible on the perimeter. Even Drummond struggled mightily with being in position on defense.

Bottom Line: They have the versatility and depth to be very aggressive on defense and generate ball pressure that they couldn't in the past. They also have a bread and butter spread PnR attack they can go to over and over. Add in some slight improvements to Drummond's passing/defense and increased reps/growth for Jackson/Pope/Dinwiddie and they should be a problem.

[Neptune]

Thanks for the love man, I hope we do good next season too! Remember, I said hope.

I don't believe in Reggie or Illyasova, because Reggie can't shoot or lead and Illyasova is injury prone. I see us being in the lottery next season if those two are in our starting line-up man.

[MoMan24]

I believe in the coach and Drummond not to be a star next year really but to get better. I also like Stanley a lot as well as letting Monroe and Smith go from last year. My concern is with the back court. Is Jackson legit. KCP is a question mark for me. And of course the Jennings situation. But for sure they will be better, but the back court to me holds their fate this season.

[tayottt]

Thanks for the love man, I hope we do good next season too! Remember, I said hope.

Np bro. This is the stuff I consider in August. LOL. I love this game so much I could probably write a 5-10 page paper breaking down every individual player and thing I saw from the Pistons last season...but I'm too lazy (and nobody wants to read that trash anyway).

[Dat2U]

I still don't like the fit... or the talent. Maybe the fit is better than last year but that doesn't necessarily make the fit good. Ilyasova usually is a complete dog first half of the season. He's been consistently terrible at the beginning of every year before working himself into shape. Marcus Morris is the WRONG Morris (and a tweener). Reggie Jackson is getting paid John Wall money to be a very slight upgrade over Brandon Jennings who is still on the roster. Stanley Johnson was an okay pick (but you arguably passed on better fits) and will likely take a year or two to get acclimated. I like KCP and he should be even better but you still have Jodie Meeks (what a terrible signing that was!) backing him up and the Aron Baynes signing made everyone go WTF?

I like Van Gundy as a coach but his GM'ing is undermining his ability to do his job.

[MoMan24]

I still don't like the fit... or the talent. Maybe the fit is better than last year but that doesn't necessarily make the fit good. Ilyasova usually is a complete dog first half of the season. He's been consistently terrible at the beginning of every year before working himself into shape. Marcus Morris is the WRONG Morris (and a tweener). Reggie Jackson is getting paid John Wall money to be a very slight upgrade over Brandon Jennings who is still on the roster. Stanley Johnson was an okay pick (but you arguably passed on better fits) and will likely take a year or two to get acclimated. I like KCP and he should be even better but you still have Jodie Meeks (what a terrible signing that was!) backing him up and the Aron Baynes signing made everyone go WTF?

I like Van Gundy as a coach but his GM'ing is undermining his ability to do his job.

I pretty sure the coach and GM are the same person. And think you are being too harsh with you analysis.

[tayottt]

I believe in the coach and Drummond not to be a star next year really but to get better. I also like Stanley a lot as well as letting Monroe and Smith go from last year. My concern is with the back court. Is Jackson legit. KCP is a question mark for me. And of course the Jennings situation. But for sure they will be better, but the back court to me holds their fate this season.

This.

I was with all the other basketball heads trashing Reggie Jackson the first half of the season. I mean he played some of the worst basketball I've seen in OKC. He pressed so much, and was so clearly playing for a contract that it was disgusting to watch.

However, once he settled into his role on the Pistons and stopped pressing as much (though he still did a good deal) he started getting those ridiculous 20/20/10 games and most of those big numbers were in Spread PnR with Drummond and Tolliver instead of Monroe.
At times Reggie looked like a monster, and when you think about it....it makes sense. Drummond CAN set great screens, and that space allows Reggie to attack. Once the defense collapses Reggie can kick out to shooters, dump off, or take the shot. In any of those scenarios the defense has to box out Drummond because he is terror on the boards.

To be honest, my main takeaway from watching a lot of Pistons games last season was that Andre Drummond is a MONSTER. If he could tighten up his defensive positioning/movement and develop a little more offensively, he probably would be a top 10 player. I remember one game in particular last year where him and Monroe were just owning Tim Duncan. There were several games like that where Drummond in particular couldn't be stopped because he was too strong/explosive (@Bulls, @Heat, etc). It's just about refining that jewel, increasing his IQ, and putting the right talent around him. My other takeaway was that their perimeter defense (outside of KCP) was horrific. I think SVG has addressed some of those issues and they should grow as a team.

Otherwise: I was big on KCP and Dinwiddie as prospects, so I'm very optimistic about them. The depth they have with Jennings also seems advantageous (though I don't like him as a starter long term).

[Prokorov]

Fit: After many years the team finally makes sense from a fit perspective. They have complimented Drummond with a PG that can attack,pass, and finish out of the PnR (Reggie Jackson), and have surrounded that attack with adequate shooters from the 3pt line (Ilyasova, Meeks, Tolliver, Pope, Marcus Morris Jennings). Toward the end of the year that Reggie/Andre PnR was eating teams up.

Defensively the team seems to make more sense as well. Rather than trotting out the corpse of Tayshaun Prince, they drafted Stanley Johnson (a long wing that should be able to guard 2-3 positions) and they acquired Ersan/Marcus who can switch onto 2s, 3s, and 4s.

while they may fit better, im not sure that translates into more wins. Reggie Jackson played like an all-star and then some after the trade, yet the pistons got worse and dropped out of the playoff hunt.

Talent: From a talent standpoint they still are in the top 10 in the East. I personally think they have more talent than the Celtics and Nets. In terms of talent they are competitive with the Pacers, but they have the lead in...

being top 10 talent isnt saying alot, since only 8 teams make the playoffs. having more talent then the nets, predicted to finish with 30ish wins, isnt saying much. likewise wit boston and the pacers, both coming off losing seasons.

Continuity: Most of this roster has had a year to learn under Stan Van Gundy. Players should feel more comfortable and actions should flow more easily. Especially on defense, where they were terrible on the perimeter. Even Drummond struggled mightily with being in position on defense.

i dont see the continutiy. above you mentioned all the new faces, and the exit of prince and monroe. thats alot of turnover, including in the starting lineup. year 2 of SVG should help, but its not like this is a team together 3-4 years that all know eachother and play cohesive ball

Bottom Line: They have the versatility and depth to be very aggressive on defense and generate ball pressure that they couldn't in the past. They also have a bread and butter spread PnR attack they can go to over and over. Add in some slight improvements to Drummond's passing/defense and increased reps/growth for Jackson/Pope/Dinwiddie and they should be a problem.

i dont think they have the top end talent. unless they get a mega season from a youngter like stanley johnson, or have a bucks like defensive uptick, i think they are still fighting for that 8 seed

[tayottt]

I still don't like the fit... or the talent. Maybe the fit is better than last year but that doesn't necessarily make the fit good. Ilyasova usually is a complete dog first half of the season. He's been consistently terrible at the beginning of every year before working himself into shape. Marcus Morris is the WRONG Morris (and a tweener). Reggie Jackson is getting paid John Wall money to be a very slight upgrade over Brandon Jennings who is still on the roster. Stanley Johnson was an okay pick (but you arguably passed on better fits) and will likely take a year or two to get acclimated. I like KCP and he should be even better but you still have Jodie Meeks (what a terrible signing that was!) backing him up and the Aron Baynes signing made everyone go WTF?

I like Van Gundy as a coach but his GM'ing is undermining his ability to do his job.

Most definitely. This is fair analysis.

I view SVG's moves a little differently.

I think Stan is looking at teams like the Bucks and Warriors and has decided to roll with having a few "tweeners" that can defend. Remember, during his better years Ersan has been a solid defender. In Stan's mind he is putting together players that can guard multiple positions, who also have the ball skills to attack a closeout, shoot, or make little plays.

Of course you would rather have Draymond or Giannis than Ersan or Marcus (who isn't a good defender like Kieff), but SVG still has that coach mentality of trying to get (even marginally) better with each transaction.

Baynes signing was super weird, but Baynes is an NBA player, and could spot start or allow them to play big in situations.

[HotelVitale]

I still don't like the fit... or the talent. Maybe the fit is better than last year but that doesn't necessarily make the fit good. Ilyasova usually is a complete dog first half of the season. He's been consistently terrible at the beginning of every year before working himself into shape. Marcus Morris is the WRONG Morris (and a tweener). Reggie Jackson is getting paid John Wall money to be a very slight upgrade over Brandon Jennings who is still on the roster. Stanley Johnson was an okay pick (but you arguably passed on better fits) and will likely take a year or two to get acclimated. I like KCP and he should be even better but you still have Jodie Meeks (what a terrible signing that was!) backing him up and the Aron Baynes signing made everyone go WTF?

This seems pretty troll-ish. I'm not a Pistons guy, but this post just says the most negative thing about every player and acts like that's the true story of them. How was Stanley Johnson not a good fit for them? A large SF who can shoot, play defense, and create a little is exactly what that team needs. And he was one of the best players at SL, not sure why that means you can only muster 'I guess he might have possibly been an average pick maybe.'

Marcus Morris doesn't have ideal size but his brother is the same size, has the same basic skills, and is a very good player. And how is it a bad thing to have Jodie Meeks on your bench? He's getting paid a little more than he should, but $8m a year for a true sniper and a heatc check 6th man isn't terrible. Jennings is injured and expiring and doesn't play anything like Jackson. Jackson gets paid a lot and he's certainly not a bargain, but it's obvious why they felt they needed to do that. I don't have time to check the Ilyasova thing, but I'm sure that's overstated or else could use more contextualizing.

Bottom line: no one's expecting the Pistons to be a top-8 team this year, and 'analysis' doesn't mean taking pot shots at players.

[tayottt]

Fit: After many years the team finally makes sense from a fit perspective. They have complimented Drummond with a PG that can attack,pass, and finish out of the PnR (Reggie Jackson), and have surrounded that attack with adequate shooters from the 3pt line (Ilyasova, Meeks, Tolliver, Pope, Marcus Morris Jennings). Toward the end of the year that Reggie/Andre PnR was eating teams up.

Defensively the team seems to make more sense as well. Rather than trotting out the corpse of Tayshaun Prince, they drafted Stanley Johnson (a long wing that should be able to guard 2-3 positions) and they acquired Ersan/Marcus who can switch onto 2s, 3s, and 4s.

while they may fit better, im not sure that translates into more wins. Reggie Jackson played like an all-star and then some after the trade, yet the pistons got worse and dropped out of the playoff hunt.

Talent: From a talent standpoint they still are in the top 10 in the East. I personally think they have more talent than the Celtics and Nets. In terms of talent they are competitive with the Pacers, but they have the lead in...

being top 10 talent isnt saying alot, since only 8 teams make the playoffs. having more talent then the nets, predicted to finish with 30ish wins, isnt saying much. likewise wit boston and the pacers, both coming off losing seasons.

Continuity: Most of this roster has had a year to learn under Stan Van Gundy. Players should feel more comfortable and actions should flow more easily. Especially on defense, where they were terrible on the perimeter. Even Drummond struggled mightily with being in position on defense.

i dont see the continutiy. above you mentioned all the new faces, and the exit of prince and monroe. thats alot of turnover, including in the starting lineup. year 2 of SVG should help, but its not like this is a team together 3-4 years that all know eachother and play cohesive ball

Bottom Line: They have the versatility and depth to be very aggressive on defense and generate ball pressure that they couldn't in the past. They also have a bread and butter spread PnR attack they can go to over and over. Add in some slight improvements to Drummond's passing/defense and increased reps/growth for Jackson/Pope/Dinwiddie and they should be a problem.

i dont think they have the top end talent. unless they get a mega season from a youngter like stanley johnson, or have a bucks like defensive uptick, i think they are still fighting for that 8 seed

I'd say the combination of getting more talent on the edges and having the primary core (Drummond/Jackson/KCP/Jennings) with a season/offseason under SVG helps.

The Pistons won 32 games last season. I think they should win 41+ this year. That's a significant leap. Essentially that is fighting for a 7/8 seed in the East. Reggie Jackson playing like an "all star" after the trade is more encouraging than not. He basically came in late in the year without attending training camp or having any familiarity with his teammates, yet carved out a niche. I think that is something to build upon. I was especially impressed with a few games where he was getting great stats without forcing it by stealing rebounds, passing up shots, or taking bad shots. That is actually what turned me around on Reggie after a horrible season with OKC.

Ultimately, it's just my opinion. I believe in the Pistons for the first time this year.

[Prokorov]

I'd say the combination of getting more talent on the edges and having the primary core (Drummond/Jackson/KCP/Jennings) with a season/offseason under SVG helps.

id disagree the primary core has a that much time together. jackson was aquired midseason, jennings was injured.

The Pistons won 32 games last season. I think they should win 41+ this year. That's a significant leap. Essentially that is fighting for a 7/8 seed in the East. Reggie Jackson playing like an "all star" after the trade is more encouraging than not. He basically came in late in the year without attending training camp or having any familiarity with his teammates, yet carved out a niche. I think that is something to build upon. I was especially impressed with a few games where he was getting great stats without forcing it by stealing rebounds, passing up shots, or taking bad shots. That is actually what turned me around on Reggie after a horrible season with OKC.

Ultimately, it's just my opinion. I believe in the Pistons for the first time this year.

i like reggie jackson. but it cant be ignored that few of the those 32 wins came with him on the floor. and i just cant take fit/continuity as reasons when like half the team has yet to play a full season together. way too many unknowns

[joedumars1]

Seems like Dre/RJ/KCP/Stanley are all really good friends and hang out together.

It's not just on court chemsitry.

[tooler]

Really impossible to say with all these up-and-coming East teams. Everyone thinks their team will make a leap.

This season is going to be very interesting even if there aren't a whole lot of wins being thrown around.

[Dat2U]

I still don't like the fit... or the talent. Maybe the fit is better than last year but that doesn't necessarily make the fit good. Ilyasova usually is a complete dog first half of the season. He's been consistently terrible at the beginning of every year before working himself into shape. Marcus Morris is the WRONG Morris (and a tweener). Reggie Jackson is getting paid John Wall money to be a very slight upgrade over Brandon Jennings who is still on the roster. Stanley Johnson was an okay pick (but you arguably passed on better fits) and will likely take a year or two to get acclimated. I like KCP and he should be even better but you still have Jodie Meeks (what a terrible signing that was!) backing him up and the Aron Baynes signing made everyone go WTF?

This seems pretty troll-ish. I'm not a Pistons guy, but this post just says the most negative thing about every player and acts like that's the true story of them. How was Stanley Johnson not a good fit for them? A large SF who can shoot, play defense, and create a little is exactly what that team needs. And he was one of the best players at SL, not sure why that means you can only muster 'I guess he might have possibly been an average pick maybe.'

Marcus Morris doesn't have ideal size but his brother is the same size, has the same basic skills, and is a very good player. And how is it a bad thing to have Jodie Meeks on your bench? He's getting paid a little more than he should, but $8m a year for a true sniper and a heatc check 6th man isn't terrible. Jennings is injured and expiring and doesn't play anything like Jackson. Jackson gets paid a lot and he's certainly not a bargain, but it's obvious why they felt they needed to do that. I don't have time to check the Ilyasova thing, but I'm sure that's overstated or else could use more contextualizing.

Bottom line: no one's expecting the Pistons to be a top-8 team this year, and 'analysis' doesn't mean taking pot shots at players.

How come every time someone has a criticism about a team, someone has to throw "troll" out? How bout there's the off-chance that maybe, just maybe one out of 30 teams actually had a bad off-season! I know, I know shocking to even consider the thought.

I've been called a troll before though, it's usually after similar predictions that turn out right. I'm pretty sure I was called a troll last year for blasting Van Gundy's off-season last year too. Also for not trading Monroe when they still had the chance. Or keeping Josh Smith when everyone else seemed to realize it wasn't going to work.

[cammac]

Think 6 spots are locked up in the East in no particular order Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, Toronto & Washington with out any having catastrophic injury situations. That leaves Boston, Charlotte, Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee & Orlando fighting for 7th & 8th.

[HotelVitale]

How come every time someone has a criticism about a team, someone has to throw "troll" out?

Because you didn't 'criticize' a team, you pointed out one or two negative thing about 6 of its role players and skipped from there to a conclusion. I'm not a Pistons fan and I don't have any love for SVG, and I'm not sold they'll be a playoff team this year. But the team's fate is largely in the hands of how well Jackson and Drummond mesh (and how well they play in general) and how well the rest of the team gels, shoots, and defends around them. If they fail, it won't be because they have Jodie Meeks on the bench, or because Marcus Morris is undersized or Ilysaova has had some bad Novembers in his career.

[MotownMadness]

We looked good even after all the crap thrown at us.

- started season 5-23 with J Smith

- traded Smith was one of the hottest teams in the league with a top 5 defense and top 5 offense.

- climbed back up to 23-33 record and then lost Jennings and traded for Jackson.

- lost all our 3 point shooting and needed Jackson to get adjusted and finished off strong after about a 10 game losing streak after the trade.

- overall we managed to play .500 ball after the departure of Smith even with all those issues so I think now with a full year of Reggie and Drummond along with other better fitting pieces we should much improved.

[JShuttlesworth]

Think 6 spots are locked up in the East in no particular order Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, Toronto & Washington with out any having catastrophic injury situations. That leaves Boston, Charlotte, Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee & Orlando fighting for 7th & 8th.

I agree with this. I think the Bucks will be in the post season though with their additions and Jabari back. Boston / Charlotte / Detroit / Indiana / Orlando left for the 8th spot.

I like Drummond's offense but he plays some terrible D. The Stanley Johnson pick is nice but I don't think he's going to be a difference maker in his first year - At least not to be able to get them to the playoffs. Ultimately I see them on the outside looking in if I had to put money on it. They could potentially get that last spot though.

[Lionlifer]

We looked good even after all the crap thrown at us.

- started season 5-23 with J Smith

- traded Smith was one of the hottest teams in the league with a top 5 defense and top 5 offense.

- climbed back up to 23-33 record and then lost Jennings and traded for Jackson.

- lost all our 3 point shooting and needed Jackson to get adjusted and finished off strong after about a 10 game losing streak after the trade.

- overall we managed to play .500 ball after the departure of Smith even with all those issues so I think now with a full year of Reggie and Drummond along with other better fitting pieces we should much improved.

As a pistons fan this is the most exciting thing to me, a full smith-less season. We'll be playing 5 on 5 for a whole season! This right there is reason for me to hope for that elusive leap to finally happen. Hide yo kids, hide yo wives, we going to the playoffs!