RealGM

If you really want to know what Larry Bird was like as a player, then I would tell you to watch the current version of Kevin Love. The healthy version.

Yes, it's one of those sad "white-guy-to-white-guy" comparisons. I know, I know.

I watched the majority of Bird's career when it happened. I'm not saying Love and Bird are the same player, because they aren't. Bird was better than Love. But there are similarities and if you understand Love you can probably better understand Bird.

Here are some of the similarities:

- Both below-average athletes by most NBA standards (running, jumping, lateral movement, etc)
- Both managed/manage to dominate despite their athletic limitations
- Both play all-out all the time. Full tilt.
- Both have a "don't give a damn" attitude about what people think of them
- Both exceptional rebounders
- Both excellent perimeter shooters
- Both with big-time confidence and a chip on their shoulder

Bird was about 1.25" taller than Love is (6' 9" vs 6' 7.75" barefoot or so).
Bird could handle the ball better than Love can
Bird could drive better than Love can
Bird could pass the ball better than Love can
Bird could shoot the ball better than Love can
Bird had more of a killer instinct than Love does
Bird was a better leader than Love is
Bird was a better scorer than Love is
Bird was cockier than Love is (and Love isn't exactly unconfident)

Love rebounds better than Bird did

The major insight here, the core reason why I'm making this thread is to get across this point:

If you are a great basketball player, you can and will dominate in any era.

There are people -- smart people, and people who admire Bird -- who think Bird "couldn't hang" in today's NBA. That's absolute nonsense. Bird would dominate in today's NBA. You're talking about a guy who is only about 0.5" shorter than Dwight Howard who can out-shoot most guards, rebound with anyone, pass better than almost anyone in the history of the NBA and with an attitude that probably only Kobe can come close to in the modern game.

So, if you're a younger reader who never got to see Bird play and you're wondering if he was the real deal, he was. And I think that understanding how Kevin Love is able to succeed despite his shortcomings is probably a pretty good way to grasp how Bird did what he did and why he is one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

I'm sure his daughter is curious to know.

dc wrote:I'm sure his daughter is curious to know.

Bird would be the best player in the league today if he played. He was better than Love by a mile. Best SF ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDE33cCssVw

senel wrote:Bird would be the best player in the league today if he played. He was better than Love by a mile. Best SF ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDE33cCssVw

No question, Bird was significantly better than Love is. Absolutely.

I personally think that LeBron has surpassed Bird at SF all-time. But it's like trying to split hairs in my opinion.

Not the perfect comparison but give Kevin Love Stephen Curry's hand eye coordination, and you have a better image of how Larry Bird was like.

Choker wrote:Not the perfect comparison but give Kevin Love Stephen Curry's hand eye coordination, and you have a better image of how Larry Bird was like.

Good point. I think it was Phil Jackson who said that Bird was a good athlete, but just in ways that people may not think about. I believe he meant in categories like hand-eye coordination. Thanks for bringing this up.

Also, both Bird and Love are relatively "quick" players, in my opinion. They're not fast, but they're decisive and move rapidly with their hands and in their movements (like going up for a shot).

Bird would be perfect for todays NBA. Imagine a shorter Dirk who was significantly better in almost every aspect of the game except shooting (I'd say they are roughly even here). Bird is also possibly the smartest player to ever play. He would torch the current league. Bird was also an underrated athlete. He wasn't a leaper but he actually moved extremely well and fluidly in his early years. He was not slow and had good quickness and coordination for a player that size.

Dennis Rodman had what was probably the most accurate and honest take on Bird. Very good player, but he wouldn't be considered a Mount Rushmore all time great player by the fans and media if he wasn't white.

HotRocks34 wrote:If you really want to know what Larry Bird was like as a player, then I would tell you to watch the current version of Kevin Love. The healthy version.

Yes, it's one of those sad "white-guy-to-white-guy" comparisons. I know, I know.

I watched the majority of Bird's career when it happened. I'm not saying Love and Bird are the same player, because they aren't. Bird was better than Love. But there are similarities and if you understand Love you can probably better understand Bird.

Here are some of the similarities:

- Both below-average athletes by most NBA standards (running, jumping, lateral movement, etc)
- Both managed/manage to dominate despite their athletic limitations
- Both play all-out all the time. Full tilt.
- Both have a "don't give a damn" attitude about what people think of them
- Both exceptional rebounders
- Both excellent perimeter shooters
- Both with big-time confidence and a chip on their shoulder

Bird was about 1.25" taller than Love is (6' 9" vs 6' 7.75" barefoot or so).
Bird could handle the ball better than Love can
Bird could drive better than Love can
Bird could pass the ball better than Love can
Bird could shoot the ball better than Love can
Bird had more of a killer instinct than Love does
Bird was a better leader than Love is
Bird was a better scorer than Love is
Bird was cockier than Love is (and Love isn't exactly unconfident)

Love rebounds better than Bird did

The major insight here, the core reason why I'm making this thread is to get across this point:

If you are a great basketball player, you can and will dominate in any era.

There are people -- smart people, and people who admire Bird -- who think Bird "couldn't hang" in today's NBA. That's absolute nonsense. Bird would dominate in today's NBA. You're talking about a guy who is only about 0.5" shorter than Dwight Howard who can out-shoot most guards, rebound with anyone, pass better than almost anyone in the history of the NBA and with an attitude that probably only Kobe can come close to in the modern game.

So, if you're a younger reader who never got to see Bird play and you're wondering if he was the real deal, he was. And I think that understanding how Kevin Love is able to succeed despite his shortcomings is probably a pretty good way to grasp how Bird did what he did and why he is one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

This post is bang on imo. Of course he'd be an elite player today.

Tinseltown wrote:Dennis Rodman had what was probably the most accurate and honest take on Bird. Very good player, but he wouldn't be considered a Mount Rushmore all time great player by the fans and media if he wasn't white.

You do understand when that remark was said, don't you? I think the Pistons had just blown the series to the Celtics.

Here's what Rodman said after he had time to cool off:

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/05/sports/thomas-explains-comments-on-bird.html

''I would like to apologize to Larry Bird for the emotional comments I made last week regarding his three-time winning of the N.B.A. m.v.p. awards. Coming off a very emotional loss, I was very frustrated at the time. I was wrong, and honestly that is not the way I feel. It was a mistake on my behalf.''

Trust me, I hated Bird growing up. Really hated him and the Celtics. But he was the truth. That guy scared the hell out of me when my teams played him.

I mean this in all sincerity and I remember it at the time: There was a very real feeling that Bird was on his way to being the GOAT after the 1985-86 Boston title. TONS of people were thrilled with the ascension of Jordan because they hated Bird, as I did. But in 1986 he and the Celtics looked like it might never end. And it may not have ended except for his back.

Braggins wrote:Bird is also possibly the smartest player to ever play

Yeah. Insane BBall IQ.

Tinseltown wrote:Dennis Rodman had what was probably the most accurate and honest take on Bird. Very good player, but he wouldn't be considered a Mount Rushmore all time great player by the fans and media if he wasn't white.

Also, Magic told a story in the HBO documentary about him and Bird. I think he said that black guys would come up to him all the time and ask him if Bird was legit. I think Magic's answer was something along the lines of "he was so good it was scary." That's exactly how I thought about Bird: He scared the hell out of me and I did not want the ball in his hands if my team was playing his and the game was close at the end.

HotRocks34 wrote:

senel wrote:Bird would be the best player in the league today if he played. He was better than Love by a mile. Best SF ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDE33cCssVw

No question, Bird was significantly better than Love is. Absolutely.

I personally think that LeBron has surpassed Bird at SF all-time. But it's like trying to split hairs in my opinion.

yeah.. BIG fan of Bird. I'd also say Rick Barry had a lot of the talents that made Bird great. Like Magic , Bird had great court awareness and a real good and quick sense of TACTICS.

old rem wrote:

HotRocks34 wrote:

senel wrote:Bird would be the best player in the league today if he played. He was better than Love by a mile. Best SF ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDE33cCssVw

No question, Bird was significantly better than Love is. Absolutely.

I personally think that LeBron has surpassed Bird at SF all-time. But it's like trying to split hairs in my opinion.

yeah.. BIG fan of Bird. I'd also say Rick Barry had a lot of the talents that made Bird great. Like Magic , Bird had great court awareness and a real good and quick sense of TACTICS.

Good point, Rem. Barry was just slightly before my time but I definitely am aware of how great he was.

Yeah, Bird was a tactical master. Controlled the game and saw the game several steps ahead.

HotRocks34 wrote:

old rem wrote:

HotRocks34 wrote:
No question, Bird was significantly better than Love is. Absolutely.

I personally think that LeBron has surpassed Bird at SF all-time. But it's like trying to split hairs in my opinion.

yeah.. BIG fan of Bird. I'd also say Rick Barry had a lot of the talents that made Bird great. Like Magic , Bird had great court awareness and a real good and quick sense of TACTICS.

Good point, Rem. Barry was just slightly before my time but I definitely am aware of how great he was.

Yeah, Bird was a tactical master. Controlled the game and saw the game several steps ahead.

I saw a game, after the college season where a US College All Star team played a BIG Russian/Soviet team. I don't know if ever else Bird + Magic were team-mates but...it was a gas. They out foxed the Russians, the passing was mindblowing.

I'm in the camp that believes Bird would be even better in today's NBA than he was in the 80s. The rule changes (illegal D specifically) as well as the move towards offenses that value outside shooting and ball movement fit perfectly with Bird's skillset.

old rem wrote:

HotRocks34 wrote:

old rem wrote:
yeah.. BIG fan of Bird. I'd also say Rick Barry had a lot of the talents that made Bird great. Like Magic , Bird had great court awareness and a real good and quick sense of TACTICS.

Good point, Rem. Barry was just slightly before my time but I definitely am aware of how great he was.

Yeah, Bird was a tactical master. Controlled the game and saw the game several steps ahead.

I saw a game, after the college season where a US College All Star team played a BIG Russian/Soviet team. I don't know if ever else Bird + Magic were team-mates but...it was a gas. They out foxed the Russians, the passing was mindblowing.

That sounds fun. Would have loved to have seen it!

RonySeikalyFTW wrote:I'm in the camp that believes Bird would be even better in today's NBA than he was in the 80s. The rule changes (illegal D specifically) as well as the move towards offenses that value outside shooting and ball movement fit perfectly with Bird's skillset.

It's interesting. I've thought about that before, also, and it's possible. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true.