Most Overrated and Underrated Players on Your Team
Posted: Fri Feb 5, 2016 10:28 pm
I'm interested to see what fans have to say about certain guys on their favorite team. Which players do you think outside fans don't appreciate enough, and which guys do you think they tend to overrate, whom you and others in your fanbase are less fond of? I think this thread could be informative because we don't get the chance to watch a lot of other teams, except for when they play our own.
I'll go first. In order..
Cleveland Cavaliers
Overrated:
1. Timofey Mozgov - He's been utterly useless this year. I think a lot of people still see him as the same guy who "turned around our defense" last year, but for one, he's regressed tremendously on both ends, especially on offense where he no longer seems capable of catching a ball; and two, I think it's looking more like Shumpert and JR's perimeter defense, along with LeBron and Kyrie giving more effort on that end in the second half of the year, were all just as valuable as Mozgov's defensive contributions, if not more so, considering we've been able to maintain our defensive efficiency since last season despite Mozgov not doing much.
2. Mo Williams - I've seen quite a few people mention him as a solid player off the bench and a quality backup PG. Make no mistake, this guy's atrocious defense takes away any offensive impact he may have on any given night. If his shot isn't money, he can't play because he'll give up layup lines all game long. Delly is infinitely better as a backup, and his play has fortunately caused Mo to basically become glued to the bench.
3. LeBron James - I'm taking a different approach here, because while I don't think LeBron is overrated while taking a career perspective, or even in reference to the value he provides to any given team come playoff time, I believe he's overrated in the sense that people look at the Cavs' record this season and assume he's doing all the heavy lifting with little help, and if you took LeBron away, the Cavs would win like 25 games. This simply isn't true. If we're talking night in and night out performance, you just never know which LeBron you're going to get: the aggressive LeBron who dominates on both ends and reminds you how he can still play like the best player in the league, or the LeBron who passively stands in the corner instead of moving without the ball, doesn't get back on defense, and dominates the ball/makes slow decisions on the offensive end. This is the big difference between him and guys like Westbrook and Curry, who bring it every single night. Unlike LeBron in the latter Cleveland years during his last stint, plenty of our losses this season can be pinned partly on him because his effort and decision making were poor. Of course, there are also nights when he was fantastic and the other guys didn't step up, but LeBron is held to a high standard - and rightfully so.
Underrated:
1. Tristan Thompson - I think people undervalue everything he provides this Cavs team because of the lucrative $82 million contract he signed this summer. In retrospect, I think it was absolutely worth the price considering everything he brings to the table and what the Cavs would look like without him (seeing that they wouldn't have been able to sign other players anyways, being way over the cap). His ORTG this season is 127 (2nd in the league, just ahead of Curry), his RPM is +1.46, and his single-year RAPM was +2.65 in the last RAPM update January 11th, which falls at 21st in the league. And it'll probably look significantly better in the next update, because he's been playing much, much better as of late. In the first 23 games of the season he was posting: 53.6 TS%, 111 ORtg, 11.6% Offensive rebounding % (2.6 off. reb. per game). And in the last 25 games: 65.7 TS%, 139 ORtg, 15.8% Offensive rebounding % (4 off. reb. per game)... A lot of his value doesn't show up on the box score, such as his defensive versatility, with his ability to play both PF and C, along with defending guards in the PnR. And his rebounds per 36 (12.0), while good, understate his impact in that area. For one, he plays with 2 very good rebounders in James and Love, and two, he draws more under the basket loose ball fouls than anyone else I've seen. He's relentless on the offensive glass and his energy is huge for this team. Plus, he's been hitting his hook shots lately on offense and his ability to finish lobs (especially off of passes from Delly) comes in handy. Finally, he has the longest streak in the NBA for consecutive games played, at 336 straight games. That kind of durability is very valuable.
2. Matthew Dellavedova - This is another guy whose contributions can't be accurately summed up by the box score. With a +1.18, he's 13th among all PGs in RPM. His On-Off is +14.1, despite playing a lot of minutes with deadweight like Richard Jefferson, James Jones, and the underperforming Mozgov and Shumpert (to an extent). He rarely seems to throw up a negative +/- these days. His single-year RAPM was +3.29 in the last update, falling in at 13th in the entire league. His value comes in the form of the ball movement he forces, especially when LeBron and Kyrie are in their ISO phases, his fantastic decision making (great AST/TO ratio), and his pesky defense. It's also worth mentioning that the team as a whole rebounds very well with him on the floor. He's such a smart player, and he's been significantly better than Kyrie this year. Sure, that says some about Kyrie not returning fully to form yet, but I think it also shows how much Delly has come along. It's very noticeable what he provides when he misses games. We lost to Charlotte 2 days ago and ended a small 5 game winning streak, mainly because Delly couldn't play. The difference in energy and ball movement was monumental.
3. JR Smith - He gets a lot of hate, but Cavs fans really appreciate what he does for us. His spacing is really valuable, especially when LeBron drives and can trust JR to hit threes when he doesn't have a good shot opportunity, as Smith is shooting 6.3 threes a game at basically a 40% clip. Specifically, his ability to hit low percentage shots is very valuable, and I think it's something that's undervalued by a lot of NBA fans in general. A guy who can hit big shots when you're offense is struggling to get good looks is far more important than the guy who scores on the same volume/efficiency, but does it on wide open looks that could've easily been taken by any other guy. He's also been getting into the paint much more frequently, finishing with a fairly reliable floater. His RPM is at +0.83, which ranks 11th among SGs and his BPM is a solid 1.3. His RAPM is -0.11 in the last update, which is middle of the pack, but I'm willing to bet that number has improved a lot since January, considering he's been playing a lot better on both ends since then. His playing in a smaller, more defined role (with Kyrie being back and Love picking up his play) helps in that regard.
So yeah, my explanations came out a lot longer than I originally intended, but there ya go. I don't mean for this to be a discussion about the Cavs or the players I named though. Just name the guys on your team who you feel are overrated/underrated by NBA fans outside your fanbase. NOTE: Your descriptions don't have to be nearly as long as mine. Feel free to just briefly name the players if you want.
I'll go first. In order..
Cleveland Cavaliers
Overrated:
1. Timofey Mozgov - He's been utterly useless this year. I think a lot of people still see him as the same guy who "turned around our defense" last year, but for one, he's regressed tremendously on both ends, especially on offense where he no longer seems capable of catching a ball; and two, I think it's looking more like Shumpert and JR's perimeter defense, along with LeBron and Kyrie giving more effort on that end in the second half of the year, were all just as valuable as Mozgov's defensive contributions, if not more so, considering we've been able to maintain our defensive efficiency since last season despite Mozgov not doing much.
2. Mo Williams - I've seen quite a few people mention him as a solid player off the bench and a quality backup PG. Make no mistake, this guy's atrocious defense takes away any offensive impact he may have on any given night. If his shot isn't money, he can't play because he'll give up layup lines all game long. Delly is infinitely better as a backup, and his play has fortunately caused Mo to basically become glued to the bench.
3. LeBron James - I'm taking a different approach here, because while I don't think LeBron is overrated while taking a career perspective, or even in reference to the value he provides to any given team come playoff time, I believe he's overrated in the sense that people look at the Cavs' record this season and assume he's doing all the heavy lifting with little help, and if you took LeBron away, the Cavs would win like 25 games. This simply isn't true. If we're talking night in and night out performance, you just never know which LeBron you're going to get: the aggressive LeBron who dominates on both ends and reminds you how he can still play like the best player in the league, or the LeBron who passively stands in the corner instead of moving without the ball, doesn't get back on defense, and dominates the ball/makes slow decisions on the offensive end. This is the big difference between him and guys like Westbrook and Curry, who bring it every single night. Unlike LeBron in the latter Cleveland years during his last stint, plenty of our losses this season can be pinned partly on him because his effort and decision making were poor. Of course, there are also nights when he was fantastic and the other guys didn't step up, but LeBron is held to a high standard - and rightfully so.
Underrated:
1. Tristan Thompson - I think people undervalue everything he provides this Cavs team because of the lucrative $82 million contract he signed this summer. In retrospect, I think it was absolutely worth the price considering everything he brings to the table and what the Cavs would look like without him (seeing that they wouldn't have been able to sign other players anyways, being way over the cap). His ORTG this season is 127 (2nd in the league, just ahead of Curry), his RPM is +1.46, and his single-year RAPM was +2.65 in the last RAPM update January 11th, which falls at 21st in the league. And it'll probably look significantly better in the next update, because he's been playing much, much better as of late. In the first 23 games of the season he was posting: 53.6 TS%, 111 ORtg, 11.6% Offensive rebounding % (2.6 off. reb. per game). And in the last 25 games: 65.7 TS%, 139 ORtg, 15.8% Offensive rebounding % (4 off. reb. per game)... A lot of his value doesn't show up on the box score, such as his defensive versatility, with his ability to play both PF and C, along with defending guards in the PnR. And his rebounds per 36 (12.0), while good, understate his impact in that area. For one, he plays with 2 very good rebounders in James and Love, and two, he draws more under the basket loose ball fouls than anyone else I've seen. He's relentless on the offensive glass and his energy is huge for this team. Plus, he's been hitting his hook shots lately on offense and his ability to finish lobs (especially off of passes from Delly) comes in handy. Finally, he has the longest streak in the NBA for consecutive games played, at 336 straight games. That kind of durability is very valuable.
2. Matthew Dellavedova - This is another guy whose contributions can't be accurately summed up by the box score. With a +1.18, he's 13th among all PGs in RPM. His On-Off is +14.1, despite playing a lot of minutes with deadweight like Richard Jefferson, James Jones, and the underperforming Mozgov and Shumpert (to an extent). He rarely seems to throw up a negative +/- these days. His single-year RAPM was +3.29 in the last update, falling in at 13th in the entire league. His value comes in the form of the ball movement he forces, especially when LeBron and Kyrie are in their ISO phases, his fantastic decision making (great AST/TO ratio), and his pesky defense. It's also worth mentioning that the team as a whole rebounds very well with him on the floor. He's such a smart player, and he's been significantly better than Kyrie this year. Sure, that says some about Kyrie not returning fully to form yet, but I think it also shows how much Delly has come along. It's very noticeable what he provides when he misses games. We lost to Charlotte 2 days ago and ended a small 5 game winning streak, mainly because Delly couldn't play. The difference in energy and ball movement was monumental.
3. JR Smith - He gets a lot of hate, but Cavs fans really appreciate what he does for us. His spacing is really valuable, especially when LeBron drives and can trust JR to hit threes when he doesn't have a good shot opportunity, as Smith is shooting 6.3 threes a game at basically a 40% clip. Specifically, his ability to hit low percentage shots is very valuable, and I think it's something that's undervalued by a lot of NBA fans in general. A guy who can hit big shots when you're offense is struggling to get good looks is far more important than the guy who scores on the same volume/efficiency, but does it on wide open looks that could've easily been taken by any other guy. He's also been getting into the paint much more frequently, finishing with a fairly reliable floater. His RPM is at +0.83, which ranks 11th among SGs and his BPM is a solid 1.3. His RAPM is -0.11 in the last update, which is middle of the pack, but I'm willing to bet that number has improved a lot since January, considering he's been playing a lot better on both ends since then. His playing in a smaller, more defined role (with Kyrie being back and Love picking up his play) helps in that regard.
So yeah, my explanations came out a lot longer than I originally intended, but there ya go. I don't mean for this to be a discussion about the Cavs or the players I named though. Just name the guys on your team who you feel are overrated/underrated by NBA fans outside your fanbase. NOTE: Your descriptions don't have to be nearly as long as mine. Feel free to just briefly name the players if you want.