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https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/720700070669062144

This should be interesting. I wonder if this is something that the analytics departments of teams are already tracking. I bet the proprietary systems used by teams are even more fine-grained to capture the "intangibles."

And here I was just thinking that we need more stats!

This is great. The average sports fan only knows about the 5 cats. Hopefully this educates the masses that there are other things you do in a basketball court to appreciate other players.

I hope Daryl Moray doesn't come across this.

ken6199 wrote:I hope Daryl Moray doesn't come across this.

But you should perhaps give it to James Harden?

durden_tyler wrote:

ken6199 wrote:I hope Daryl Moray doesn't come across this.

But you should perhaps give it to James Harden?

The guy plays alongside a junkyard dog, I don't think he needs the memo.

On topic, first guy I think of is Trevor Booker. That boy is everywhere. And man I miss the rookie Chandler Parsons - he took the starting job right out of Budinger's hands, by pure hustle. He also ranked top in distance covered per game in 14 or 13 I don't remember, which is weirdly not included in this "hustle stats".

What are some of these stats?

ken6199 wrote:I hope Daryl Moray doesn't come across this.

He'd give Delly the max.

blau08 wrote:What are some of these stats?

It will be a single combined "hustle" number, like PER or something, based on the following elements.

According to the NBA, the following will be counted through a combination of SportVU tracking and video analysis performed at the Secaucus replay center:

Deflections – Defensive player touches the ball on a non-shot attempt
Loose Balls Recovered – Player gains sole possession of a live ball not in the control of either team
Contested 2’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 2 point shot prior to its release
Contested 3’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 3 point shot prior to its release
Charges Drawn – Defensive player draws a charge
Screen Assists – Offensive player sets a screen for a teammate that directly leads to a made field goal by that teammate

The first five were the items tracked at Summer League, while “Screen Assists” are a new category.

spaceballer wrote:

blau08 wrote:What are some of these stats?

It will be a single combined "hustle" number, like PER or something, based on the following elements.

According to the NBA, the following will be counted through a combination of SportVU tracking and video analysis performed at the Secaucus replay center:

Deflections – Defensive player touches the ball on a non-shot attempt
Loose Balls Recovered – Player gains sole possession of a live ball not in the control of either team
Contested 2’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 2 point shot prior to its release
Contested 3’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 3 point shot prior to its release
Charges Drawn – Defensive player draws a charge
Screen Assists – Offensive player sets a screen for a teammate that directly leads to a made field goal by that teammate

The first five were the items tracked at Summer League, while “Screen Assists” are a new category.

Screen assists will be super interesting. I wish they would also track how many screens are set in general

spaceballer wrote:

blau08 wrote:What are some of these stats?

It will be a single combined "hustle" number, like PER or something, based on the following elements.

According to the NBA, the following will be counted through a combination of SportVU tracking and video analysis performed at the Secaucus replay center:

Deflections – Defensive player touches the ball on a non-shot attempt
Loose Balls Recovered – Player gains sole possession of a live ball not in the control of either team
Contested 2’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 2 point shot prior to its release
Contested 3’s – Defensive player closes out and raises a hand to contest a 3 point shot prior to its release
Charges Drawn – Defensive player draws a charge
Screen Assists – Offensive player sets a screen for a teammate that directly leads to a made field goal by that teammate

The first five were the items tracked at Summer League, while “Screen Assists” are a new category.

Eh, lots of flaws in those. How well will "contested" be tracked? A lot of players just "contest" but not in a way that is enough to possibly disturb the shooter--it's more for show. Also, players who guard players that shoot more often will have more "contested" 2's/3's, but that doesn't mean they hustle more than that they guard volume shooters. Which, though valuable to know, would be better captured by things like defensive rtg and eFG% against. Screen assists...well if you're screening for Curry you'll have a lot of field goals off your screens. If you're screening for a lot of other players...not so much. All of these could be addressed if the stats are normalized in some way, but it doesn't look like they plan to.

FFS. At some point it gets to be to much with stats. What's next? A stat for how fast each player everytime gets down the floor?

Another thing, who the hell is going to keep track of these? How many people are on the stat Cree and can we absolutely trust these numbers?

zeebneeb wrote:FFS. At some point it gets to be to much with stats. What's next? A stat for how fast each player everytime gets down the floor?

Another thing, who the hell is going to keep track of these? How many people are on the stat Cree and can we absolutely trust these numbers?

Eh, some people do this for a living so they will constantly comb all these stats to create narratives/articles/analysis on what's happening in the NBA and why.

narmerguy wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:FFS. At some point it gets to be to much with stats. What's next? A stat for how fast each player everytime gets down the floor?

Another thing, who the hell is going to keep track of these? How many people are on the stat Cree and can we absolutely trust these numbers?

Eh, some people do this for a living so they will constantly comb all these stats to create narratives/articles/analysis on what's happening in the NBA and why.

This is different. It's an official stat for the playoffs and I'm sure it's a testing ground for the regular season so it's not some random guy or someone from a website.

I just hate it when people use some of these stats to either tear down or build up a player singling out some obscure stat that supports their argument.

Hustle is more of an eye test and not easily quantifiable.

They released it in the play-offs because it would look bad/expose some players if released during the regular season. Hopefully it's available next regular season.

zeebneeb wrote:

narmerguy wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:FFS. At some point it gets to be to much with stats. What's next? A stat for how fast each player everytime gets down the floor?

Another thing, who the hell is going to keep track of these? How many people are on the stat Cree and can we absolutely trust these numbers?

Eh, some people do this for a living so they will constantly comb all these stats to create narratives/articles/analysis on what's happening in the NBA and why.

This is different. It's an official stat for the playoffs and I'm sure it's a testing ground for the regular season so it's not some random guy or someone from a website.

I just hate it when people use some of these stats to either tear down or build up a player singling out some obscure stat that supports their argument.

Hustle is more of an eye test and not easily quantifiable.

It goes even beyond that.

Harden scored 35 points vs Kings in the final game in 3 quarters. He sat in 4th as usual, then came back while we were up 20+, scored 3, sat again. Why? Because he needed to score 38 to have a season average of 29/6.2/7.5 so that he could get in the club of 4 (LBJ, MJ, Oscar, Harden) of 29/6/7 season. Actually with 38 points, his season average was 28.97 but the league would round it up to 29. They knew it. The cut it fine. You bet there is a team of MIT statisticians working behind the scene, and give players 'heads up' before the game. FO needs it, Adidas needs it for PR purpose. You bet LeBron also has a team working on this. Maybe one day Curry will chase for a 'did not play xxx number of 4th quarters' record. All players do these sort of things. You see random cut stats like xxx is the only player after YYY to average 32.1/5.5/7.8 in a 20 home game stretch after the all star break. This is the same concept to our fear of robotics taking over the human race one day.

Really looking forward to this, the last PT stats were a great predictor for the season standings and I think won the APBR contest. The SportVu stats are camera tracked and though they have flaws still give really good info. I'd strongly disagree this is useless stuff.

zeebneeb wrote:Hustle is more of an eye test and not easily quantifiable.

everything can be quantified. as long as you can define it and find a way to track it, you can quantify it.

This is good. i think this will help restore balance in pay to defensive, hustle players vs. one-dimensional high scorers. So it becomes indefensible to have bargnani types making double what tony Allen types make.

NBARocks wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:Hustle is more of an eye test and not easily quantifiable.

everything can be quantified. as long as you can define it and find a way to track it, you can quantify it.

Exactly, you can quantify absolutely all of what you see in the "eye test". It just doesn't seem it's gonna be easy to reduce a lot of the noise with this particular stat. And I hope they don't make it another one of those all-in-one-number stats that leads to idiotic arguments full of the "but he has a 25 in hustle" substanceless kind of points.

But I'm glad they keep putting effort in logging the little things and improving the way defense is quantified.