Is Nikola Jokic a franchise level talent?

The_Hater · Post #41 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:20 pm

vaff87 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Nuggets_Talk wrote:
Oh lord

I'm very confused by your eye roll reaction to that?

Seriously? This thread has nothing to do with **** Embiid. And some Sixers fan brings him up out of the blue to diss the player being discussed.

Also, by advanced stats it's not even true. Or close to true.

I think people are being a bit too sensitive about one comment.

GregB · Post #42 » by **GregB** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:48 pm

The_Hater wrote:
vaff87 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
I'm very confused by your eye roll reaction to that?

Seriously? This thread has nothing to do with **** Embiid. And some Sixers fan brings him up out of the blue to diss the player being discussed.

Also, by advanced stats it's not even true. Or close to true.

I think people are being a bit too sensitive about one comment.

Not really. That comment is just a prime example of making useless comments without actually contributing anything of value. Had they talked about embiid and took the time to compare stats and actually make a post relevant to the thread then great. But making one stupid throw away line about a player that is not on topic is a waste of everyone's time.

Nightman · Post #43 » by **Nightman** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:39 pm

I'll admit this is partly because I drafted him in fantasy bball, but I've been watching Jokic a lot this year and I absolutely love his game. He can bully the paint one possession and make a sick no-look pass the next. He's a franchise player and the Nuggets should build around him.

Johnlac1 · Post #44 » by **Johnlac1** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:41 pm

eminence wrote:Absolutely imo. Walton should be the guide. Bogut is a more recent guy. Hopefully healthier than either.

Examples of ceiling, he's not there yet (especially defensively).

Walton was a superior athlete. Jokic is smart and skilled but limited athletically. He'll be good off., but he'll never be a real good def. player.

Saints14 · Post #45 » by **Saints14** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:24 pm

I agree with those saying 2nd option on a really good team. His skillset - playmaking, good but not elite D, low volume scoring with high efficiency - would fit perfectly next to a high volume wing scorer.

turnmeup88 · Post #46 » by **turnmeup88** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:33 pm

I actually believe he is not viewed by media as a potentially Franchise Talent because he is a non-american player who isn't playing for a huge market. He therefore isn't showcased on many national games and the Nuggets aren't that good. On top of this, he was drafted in the second round, which means he has an uphill battle for people to believe in him.

His stats considering the limited amount of time he is playing are phenomenal for someone his age. My group of friends argued with me that Nurkic was better but Jokic is incredibly efficient and already more polished. He has a rare combination of brute force and finesse. He should be a multiple time all-star barring major injuries. He has the kind of potential to put up 20/10/6/2 with great efficiency - those are franchise player numbers.

mcmurphy · Post #47 » by **mcmurphy** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:35 pm

It's a small sample but in the 5 games this season when plays 30-39 mins is capable of:

5 games (4 start)
34mpg, 20.6 ppg, 12.2 reb, 5.8 ast, 1.3 stl, 0.6 blk, 1.8 to, 59% FG, 38%, 3P, 80% FT, 64.7% TS, 23.1% USG (133 OFF/106 DEF)

Last season
10 games (9 start)
33mpg, 16.2 ppg, 11.4 reb, 3.4 ast, 1.7 stl, 1.2 blk, 1.3 to, 54% FG, 31%, 3P, 90% FT, 60.8% TS, 19.6% USG (126 OFF/105 DEF)

Imho these numbers are not outliers.
The strange thing is that last year it took until the beginning of 2016 to get into starting lineup (but it was understandable being a rookie) but this year in the sophomore year the same story is repeated.
What has yet to prove Jokic to coach Malone?

Malone, shame on you!

eminence · Post #48 » by **eminence** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:41 pm

Johnlac1 wrote:
eminence wrote:Absolutely imo. Walton should be the guide. Bogut is a more recent guy. Hopefully healthier than either.

Examples of ceiling, he's not there yet (especially defensively).
Walton was a superior athlete. Jokic is smart and skilled but limited athletically. He'll be good off., but he'll never be a real good def. player.

True enough about Waltons athleticism. I was thinking more a combo of Walton's offense (more shooting), and Bogut's defense (who's shown us you can be an incredibly good defender without much athleticism). Long ways to go on defense though.

Post #49 » by **Duffman100** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:18 pm

3Diamantidis wrote:Yes.
He can be the greatest passing big we've seen.
His skillset is rare for a big.
He can build up his body and he can improve in D.
You can work on these things, but his arsenal offensively is pure talent.

He has the potential to be Divac / Sabonis? I haven't watched him enough...

walk with me · Post #50 » by **walk with me** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:00 pm

Hell no...
Corner stone, in a best case scenario.

FRANCHISE level... hell no.

TTP · Post #51 » by **TTP** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:06 pm

sixerhp3 wrote:
eathb_au wrote:I'm am annoyed that Malone almost ruined his development this year and if anything killed his chances for an All Star spot.

Jokic in December: 16.2/9.2/4.4 on .692 from the field and .455 from 3.

Want to know what makes it more impressive?

He's doing this IN 25 MINUTES A NIGHT.

He's good, but he's no Embiid

Posts like this make Sixers fans look bad. Quit it.

walk with me · Post #52 » by **walk with me** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:09 pm

TTP wrote:
sixerhp3 wrote:
eathb_au wrote:I'm am annoyed that Malone almost ruined his development this year and if anything killed his chances for an All Star spot.

Jokic in December: 16.2/9.2/4.4 on .692 from the field and .455 from 3.

Want to know what makes it more impressive?

He's doing this IN 25 MINUTES A NIGHT.

He's good, but he's no Embiid

Posts like this make Sixers fans look bad. Quit it.

He's not lying... as long as embiid stays healthy will be a tier or two above jokic.

TTP · Post #53 » by **TTP** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:11 pm

walk with me wrote:
TTP wrote:
sixerhp3 wrote:
He's good, but he's no Embiid

Posts like this make Sixers fans look bad. Quit it.

He's not lying... as long as embiid stays healthy will be a tier or two above jokic.

Regardless of whether that's true or not, it isn't relevant to the topic, especially in the manner in which it was posted.

Johnny Firpo · Post #54 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:19 pm

Maybe, but probably not. Definitely an All-Star talent.

Johnny Firpo · Post #55 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:22 pm

Duffman100 wrote:He has the potential to be Divac / Sabonis? I haven't watched him enough...

Sure, it's not like Divac was an MVP candidate in the league, and that was even true for Sabonis, although he obviously had all the talent in the world, just came to the league late, and wasn't consistently healthy. Also had that devastating injury when he was pretty young, which robbed him of his entire peak. If - and obviously that's a huge if - Sabonis comes over at 19 and nevet gets injured seriously, I think he would be considered a top 10 player today. So while Jokic doesn't have and will never have the talent of Sabonis, he could definitely surpass his NBA career.

damecurry · Post #56 » by **damecurry** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:24 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:He would be great as the second guy, kind of like the Pau Gasol era Los Angeles Lakers.

Ya I agree with this. There aren't that many legit #1s out there that can lead a team to a championship. I think he can be the #1 to a playoff team but if he's going to be on a championship he will have to be a 2nd option.

Yeah I'd third this. Unless it's a 2013-14 Spurs or a 2003-04 Pistons situation where they just have a really elite team with several great players and no true standout star I don't really see Jokic being a top 5, lead a good team to a title type guy. But he can definitely be a Pau Gasol to someone else's kobe bryant though.

Post #57 » by **Duffman100** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:27 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:He has the potential to be Divac / Sabonis? I haven't watched him enough...

Sure, it's not like Divac was an MVP candidate in the league, and that was even true for Sabonis, although he obviously had all the talent in the world, just came to the league late, and wasn't consistently healthy. Also had that devastating injury when he was pretty young, which robbed him of his entire peak. If - and obviously that's a huge if - Sabonis comes over at 19 and nevet gets injured seriously, I think he would be considered a top 10 player today. So while Jokic doesn't have and will never have the talent of Sabonis, he could definitely surpass his NBA career.

I meant from a pure passing standpoint.

Johnny Firpo · Post #58 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:36 pm

Duffman100 wrote:I meant from a pure passing standpoint.

Yeah, I think so. He is easily the most creative big man passer in the league today, the rest comes down to role and teammates.

mcmurphy · Post #59 » by **mcmurphy** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:39 pm

walk with me wrote:Hell no...
Corner stone, in a best case scenario.

FRANCHISE level... hell no.

Please define franchise player.
Would you define a player as Chris Webber franchise player for SAC?

Imho, Jokic could could be a 18/10/5 player, less scorer but more efficient of Webber.

P.S.
The only players in addition to Webb 18+, 10+, 5+ per season are Garnett and Barkley that are HOF.

mcmurphy · Post #60 » by **mcmurphy** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:43 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Sabonis comes over at 19 and nevet gets injured seriously, I think he would be considered a top 10 player today.

A young Sabas (before injury) would be easily top3 today.