Is Nikola Jokic a franchise level talent?

[UcanUwill]

Yes.
He can be the greatest passing big we've seen.
His skillset is rare for a big.
He can build up his body and he can improve in D.
You can work on these things, but his arsenal offensively is pure talent.

He has the potential to be Divac / Sabonis? I haven't watched him enough...

He definitely reminds me of Sabonis with some of these passes. Sabas had goat hands IMO, he could catch and palm basketball so effortlessly, and his one hand passes were insane. That Jokic pass to Farried is pure Sabonis.

This guy came out of nowhere, I am a big Euro basketball fan (mostly Euroleague, but I follow some other leagues a bit as well), but I had no idea who Jokic was up until the last season. He looks like what I imagine Saric to be, when Saric was still 17 years old.

[Johnny Firpo]

A young Sabas (before injury) would be easily top3 today.

Sorry, I meant All-time. I think he was a better talent than Dirk, Malone, Barkley, these guys around 15-18. Maybe you guys don't agree, but top 20, surely, yeah?

[mcmurphy]

A young Sabas (before injury) would be easily top3 today.

Sorry, I meant All-time. I think he was a better talent than Dirk, Malone, Barkely, these guys around 15-18. Maybe you guys don't agree, but top 20, surely, yeah?

Ok, top10 all-time I agree.

[walk with me]

Hell no...
Corner stone, in a best case scenario.

FRANCHISE level... hell no.

Please define franchise player.
Would you define a player as Chris Webber franchise player for SAC?

Imho, Jokic could could be a 18/10/5 player, less scorer but more efficient of Webber.

P.S.
The only players in addition to Webb 18+, 10+, 5+ per season are Garnett and Barkley that are HOF.

There's a lot of different ways to look at it but without getting to deep into it your "franchise" player IMO should at a minimum lead the team in scoring and force defenses to change game plans because of that. There are some minor exceptions to that keep in mind. If jokic is a teams leading scorer it's not a good sign because while he is a decent scorer. He's not a naturally gifted scorer. Jokic leading any team in scoring would be a force.

To me He's a guy that on a really good team would be a 3rd or 4th best player

On a decent team he could be the 2nd best player


Cwebb on the other hand could be the first or second best player on a really good team because he was so dangerous on offense.


and for the sake of this argument I'm not too concerned with "what if" stats

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Yes.
He can be the greatest passing big we've seen.
His skillset is rare for a big.
He can build up his body and he can improve in D.
You can work on these things, but his arsenal offensively is pure talent.

He has the potential to be Divac / Sabonis? I haven't watched him enough...

He definitely reminds me of Sabonis with some of these passes. Sabas had goat hands IMO, he could catch and palm basketball so effortlessly, and his one hand passes were insane. That Jokic pass to Farried is pure Sabonis.

This guy came out of nowhere, I am a big Euro basketball fan (mostly Euroleague, but I follow some other leagues a bit as well), but I had no idea who Jokic was up until the last season. He looks like what I imagine Saric to be, when Saric was still 17 years old.

Well you are only one year late really.

He played in a club which is mainly used to promote young talents so they could go to Euroleague teams and he wasn't anything special in 13/14 and the most talked guy was Vasilije Micić. In 14/15 after 8/9 games into ABA season people figured out what a special talent he is and hype started in our media about how he is the next Divac and stuff and how he should go to NBA and then he did

[kenwood3333]

I am quite surprised by his court vision and passing skills. If he stays healthy and continue to improve, I can see him having a marc gasol type career.

[sixerhp3]

Posts like this make Sixers fans look bad. Quit it.

He's not lying... as long as embiid stays healthy will be a tier or two above jokic.

Regardless of whether that's true or not, it isn't relevant to the topic, especially in the manner in which it was posted.

Sarcasm guys


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[tundraknight]

He seems like a perfect glue guy to have.

Like he could be a great fit with just about any team because of his passing.

If he had more talent around him it would be very intriguing.

For example if he played with Giannis and Parker on the Bucks, it would be fun to watch.

[MalonesElbows]

Denver stealth tanking imo giving him only 24mpg. 23 PER player, 5th best PF by RPM metrics.

[jackwindham]

If the Nuggets are stealth tanking, then they're doing a tremendous job at it.

[fansinceforever]

I hated for a while because some ass hat NBA writer, Kevin Pelton intentionally trolled Bucks fans by claiming he was a far better cornerstone that Giannis. But that's not Jok's fault.

He's a damn good player. We'll see if he's a franchise level talent.

[um.]

Everyone on this board doesn't have a clue about Denver...franchise player?...he definitely can be...is he right now? He sure is showing it. The team is really starting to gel.

My question is even if these other bigs are "franchise" players wouldn't their teams at least be in the playoff hunt? Looking at you KAT and Embiid...

[Winsome Gerbil]

I don't think so.

For comparison, I consider Cousins and Davis to be franchise level bigs, and think its highly likely Embiid and KAT will join them.

I think Blake is a borderline case, who might be able to be one in different circumstances, but would need defensive help.

I don't consider Marc Gasol productive enough to be one, and it was very borderline whether his brother ever truly was either.


I think Jokic has a shot to be like a 3rd Gasol brother. I don't think he's ever going to be a dominant enough scorer, or a strong enough defender, to truly be "the franchise", but he's got a chance to be a strong #2/borderline All Star guy every year.

[FNQ]

I believe he is. Truly an impressive player. And yes, right there with Embiid in terms of versatility and impressiveness at the C position. But - and its funny to say - Embiid has a bit longer of a track record atm. Jokic looks so damned impressive though. I was under the impression that the Nuggets would have to swing a trade or two to land a star. Maybe not?

Or maybe they should, to pair with Jokic? If they could land a star guard while keeping Chandler/Jokic, I could see a top 5 Western finish in their very near future.

Only issue with him is lack of blocks and rim protection. The Nuggets do need to address that, and if they can't, I can also see Jokic being one of those fatally flawed 'franchise' players who put up obscene stats but dont do what the position requires.

I'd throw a homerun offer Miami's way for Whiteside and try and play Jokic and Whiteside together

[FNQ]

Everyone on this board doesn't have a clue about Denver...franchise player?...he definitely can be...is he right now? He sure is showing it. The team is really starting to gel.

My question is even if these other bigs are "franchise" players wouldn't their teams at least be in the playoff hunt? Looking at you KAT and Embiid...

The talent levels on Philly hinder Embiid.. and with the Wolves, they so desperately need interior rim protection that its killing them. But I think in a couple years they will both be high-end playoff teams.

[cksdayoff]

this guy looks like he's the best passing big right now (until simmons comes back). He makes better, pinpoint passes to cutters than most point guards in the league

[Quentin]

Jokic had some damn impressive passes last night against the Wolves. He's solid all around.

With KAT and Embiid. Come on, those guys have very little around them in terms of 'education' or veteran talent. They're a ways from winning because of this.

[trlp1712]

I don't think so.

For comparison, I consider Cousins and Davis to be franchise level bigs, and think its highly likely Embiid and KAT will join them.

I think Blake is a borderline case, who might be able to be one in different circumstances, but would need defensive help.

I don't consider Marc Gasol productive enough to be one, and it was very borderline whether his brother ever truly was either.


I think Jokic has a shot to be like a 3rd Gasol brother. I don't think he's ever going to be a dominant enough scorer, or a strong enough defender, to truly be "the franchise", but he's got a chance to be a strong #2/borderline All Star guy every year.

How is Cousins a franchise level big, but neither Gasol was? Hell, how is Marc Gasol not productive enough?

What reasoning did you use to reach this conclusion?

[um.]

Everyone on this board doesn't have a clue about Denver...franchise player?...he definitely can be...is he right now? He sure is showing it. The team is really starting to gel.

My question is even if these other bigs are "franchise" players wouldn't their teams at least be in the playoff hunt? Looking at you KAT and Embiid...

The talent levels on Philly hinder Embiid.. and with the Wolves, they so desperately need interior rim protection that its killing them. But I think in a couple years they will both be high-end playoff teams.

Every team has its needs...sure. The nuggets were predicted to be one of the worst teams in the league, they're tied for the 8th spot in the west currently. Franchise players take bad or mediocre teams and turn them into playoff contenders. Jokic is doing this. KAT And Embiid are putting up empty statistics at the end of the day. They are no different than Demarcus Cousins at this point either.

A franchise player is somebody you can build your team around...I don't think by any means he needs to be the leading scorer or option 1a. Put anyone around Jokic and he will make them better.

Also to the sour jailblazer fan dissing Denver... Up yours.

[lars_rosenberg]

I believe he is. Truly an impressive player. And yes, right there with Embiid in terms of versatility and impressiveness at the C position. But - and its funny to say - Embiid has a bit longer of a track record atm. Jokic looks so damned impressive though. I was under the impression that the Nuggets would have to swing a trade or two to land a star. Maybe not?

Or maybe they should, to pair with Jokic? If they could land a star guard while keeping Chandler/Jokic, I could see a top 5 Western finish in their very near future.

Only issue with him is lack of blocks and rim protection. The Nuggets do need to address that, and if they can't, I can also see Jokic being one of those fatally flawed 'franchise' players who put up obscene stats but dont do what the position requires.

I'd throw a homerun offer Miami's way for Whiteside and try and play Jokic and Whiteside together

If Nurkic and Jokic didn't work, what makes you think it will work with Whiteside?

I don't think so.

For comparison, I consider Cousins and Davis to be franchise level bigs, and think its highly likely Embiid and KAT will join them.

I think Blake is a borderline case, who might be able to be one in different circumstances, but would need defensive help.

I don't consider Marc Gasol productive enough to be one, and it was very borderline whether his brother ever truly was either.


I think Jokic has a shot to be like a 3rd Gasol brother. I don't think he's ever going to be a dominant enough scorer, or a strong enough defender, to truly be "the franchise", but he's got a chance to be a strong #2/borderline All Star guy every year.

How is Cousins a franchise level big, but neither Gasol was? Hell, how is Marc Gasol not productive enough?

What reasoning did you use to reach this conclusion?

Some people only care about points per game.