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"System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:22 pm
by Fico92
He's 1% away from a rare feat in NBA history, something that only 4 players have done before: Being a 25+ppg scorer on 50/40/90 efficiency - Bird, Dirk, KD, Curry
However, Kawhi has done something that none of these 4 could dream of doing - won DPOY not once but twice.
This year numbers vs. Top SF's:
Kawhi - 35/5r/3a/5s
Durant: 27-10r-4a-2b-2s
Kawhi - 21/9r/2b **Excluding the 30point game since Giannis only played 9 mins**
Giannis - 22/13r/2a/2s/1b
Kawhi - 24.5/9/5/2s/1b
Butler - 16/7/3.5/1.5s/1b
Kawhi - 41/6/5/1/1
LeBron - 29/6/7/2
Here's a look at how Kawhi played vs the top SF's last year:
viewtopic.php?t=1419123Seeing as a majority of players seem to hit their statistical prime around age 27-28 (2-3 years for Kawhi), what are we looking for his prime numbers to be? Keeping in mind these are his 5 previous year improvements
7.9/51/1.1/1.3/0.4 on 49/38/77
11.9/6.0/1.6/1.7/0.6 on 49/37/83
12.8/6.2/2.0/1.7/0.8 on 52/38/80
16.5/7.2/2.5/2.3/0.8 on 48/35/52
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 on 51/44/87
25.5/5.7/3.2/1.8/0.7 on 49/42/91 <-- current year
Next year
Prime
Prime
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:42 pm
by T6R6NT6
Unbelievably underrated, hardly talked about, just how he and the Spurs like it.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:50 pm
by Inigo Montoya
Kawhi is a beast. 'Nuff said.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:50 pm
by Danny11
Fico92 wrote:He's 1% away from a rare feat in NBA history, something that only 4 players have done before: Being a 25+ppg scorer on 50/40/90 efficiency - Bird, Dirk, KD, Curry
However, Kawhi has done something that none of these 4 could dream of doing - won DPOY not once but twice.
This year numbers vs. Top SF's:
Kawhi - 35/5r/3a/5s
Durant: 27-10r-4a-2b-2s
Kawhi - 21/9r/2b **Excluding the 30point game since Giannis only played 9 mins**
Giannis - 22/13r/2a/2s/1b
Kawhi - 24.5/9/5/2s/1b
Butler - 16/7/3.5/1.5s/1b
Kawhi - 41/6/5/1/1
LeBron - 29/6/7/2
Here's a look at how Kawhi played vs the top SF's last year:
viewtopic.php?t=1419123
Seeing as a majority of players seem to hit their statistical prime around age 27-28 (2-3 years for Kawhi), what are we looking for his prime numbers to be? Keeping in mind these are his 5 previous year improvements
7.9/51/1.1/1.3/0.4 on 49/38/77
11.9/6.0/1.6/1.7/0.6 on 49/37/83
12.8/6.2/2.0/1.7/0.8 on 52/38/80
16.5/7.2/2.5/2.3/0.8 on 48/35/52
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 on 51/44/87
25.5/5.7/3.2/1.8/0.7 on 49/42/91 <-- current year
Next year
Prime
Prime
Really minor butttt that's bothering me sorry. 80% I think.
The guy's a stud. He's a prototypical Spurs player. Does all of the little things, buys into the system, plays winning basketball; now just add great athleticism, length, hand size and work ethic and there's your recipe for success. This is the kind of guy you can plug into any system and they instantly improve.
That being said, I wonder if we would've seen the same kind of improvement had he not been drafted by a team as patient and competent as the Spurs. That's the tough thing about evaluating talent from franchises with good management, coaching or talent; it becomes difficult to distinguish whether success/development is due to a player's internal drive/natural ability or a team's nurturing environment.
Other examples include Duncan, Dirk, Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, Draymond Green,
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:00 pm
by Fico92
Danny11 wrote:Fico92 wrote:He's 1% away from a rare feat in NBA history, something that only 4 players have done before: Being a 25+ppg scorer on 50/40/90 efficiency - Bird, Dirk, KD, Curry
However, Kawhi has done something that none of these 4 could dream of doing - won DPOY not once but twice.
This year numbers vs. Top SF's:
Kawhi - 35/5r/3a/5s
Durant: 27-10r-4a-2b-2s
Kawhi - 21/9r/2b **Excluding the 30point game since Giannis only played 9 mins**
Giannis - 22/13r/2a/2s/1b
Kawhi - 24.5/9/5/2s/1b
Butler - 16/7/3.5/1.5s/1b
Kawhi - 41/6/5/1/1
LeBron - 29/6/7/2
Here's a look at how Kawhi played vs the top SF's last year:
viewtopic.php?t=1419123
Seeing as a majority of players seem to hit their statistical prime around age 27-28 (2-3 years for Kawhi), what are we looking for his prime numbers to be? Keeping in mind these are his 5 previous year improvements
7.9/51/1.1/1.3/0.4 on 49/38/77
11.9/6.0/1.6/1.7/0.6 on 49/37/83
12.8/6.2/2.0/1.7/0.8 on 52/38/80
16.5/7.2/2.5/2.3/0.8 on 48/35/52
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 on 51/44/87
25.5/5.7/3.2/1.8/0.7 on 49/42/91 <-- current year
Next year
Prime
Prime
Really minor butttt that's bothering me sorry. 80% I think.
The guy's a stud. He's a prototypical Spurs player. Does all of the little things, buys into the system, plays winning basketball; now just add great athleticism, length, hand size and work ethic and there's your recipe for success. This is the kind of guy you can plug into any system and they instantly improve.
That being said, I wonder if we would've seen the same kind of improvement had he not been drafted by a team as patient and competent as the Spurs. That's the tough thing about evaluating talent from franchises with good management, coaching or talent; it becomes difficult to distinguish whether success/development is due to a player's internal drive/natural ability or a team's nurturing environment.
Other examples include Duncan, Dirk, Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, Draymond Green,
Yes, thanks for that edit. It's 80 as you said. I don't agree with Tim Duncan being on that list, however...he was a consensus #1 pick in his Soph,Jr,Sr season of college. Without the Spurs, he probably puts up much better individual numbers, as he would have been given the reigns on any team he was drafted on, right from the start.
Re: RE: Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:00 pm
by lars_rosenberg
T6R6NT6 wrote:Unbelievably underrated, hardly talked about, just how he and the Spurs like it.
That's totally false. He's so well considered that LeBron is jealous of him.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/lebron-james-other-top-players-151638156.html
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:05 pm
by Winglish
I cannot believe that the Jazz passed on Kawhi TWICE in the draft.
That draft was hard for me to take. I was enraged at the Jazz F.O. I was literally screaming at my TV and throwing pillows around on draft night when they took Enes Kanter and Alec Burks ahead of Leonard. I think my family thought I had gone crazy.
What a great player!
Sent from my SM-N900T using
RealGM mobile app
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:10 pm
by Danny11
Fico92 wrote:Danny11 wrote:Fico92 wrote:He's 1% away from a rare feat in NBA history, something that only 4 players have done before: Being a 25+ppg scorer on 50/40/90 efficiency - Bird, Dirk, KD, Curry
However, Kawhi has done something that none of these 4 could dream of doing - won DPOY not once but twice.
This year numbers vs. Top SF's:
Kawhi - 35/5r/3a/5s
Durant: 27-10r-4a-2b-2s
Kawhi - 21/9r/2b **Excluding the 30point game since Giannis only played 9 mins**
Giannis - 22/13r/2a/2s/1b
Kawhi - 24.5/9/5/2s/1b
Butler - 16/7/3.5/1.5s/1b
Kawhi - 41/6/5/1/1
LeBron - 29/6/7/2
Here's a look at how Kawhi played vs the top SF's last year:
viewtopic.php?t=1419123
Seeing as a majority of players seem to hit their statistical prime around age 27-28 (2-3 years for Kawhi), what are we looking for his prime numbers to be? Keeping in mind these are his 5 previous year improvements
7.9/51/1.1/1.3/0.4 on 49/38/77
11.9/6.0/1.6/1.7/0.6 on 49/37/83
12.8/6.2/2.0/1.7/0.8 on 52/38/80
16.5/7.2/2.5/2.3/0.8 on 48/35/52
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 on 51/44/87
25.5/5.7/3.2/1.8/0.7 on 49/42/91 <-- current year
Next year
Prime
Prime
Really minor butttt that's bothering me sorry. 80% I think.
The guy's a stud. He's a prototypical Spurs player. Does all of the little things, buys into the system, plays winning basketball; now just add great athleticism, length, hand size and work ethic and there's your recipe for success. This is the kind of guy you can plug into any system and they instantly improve.
That being said, I wonder if we would've seen the same kind of improvement had he not been drafted by a team as patient and competent as the Spurs. That's the tough thing about evaluating talent from franchises with good management, coaching or talent; it becomes difficult to distinguish whether success/development is due to a player's internal drive/natural ability or a team's nurturing environment.
Other examples include Duncan, Dirk, Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, Draymond Green,
Yes, thanks for that edit. It's 80 as you said. I don't agree with Tim Duncan being on that list, however...he was a consensus #1 pick in his Soph,Jr,Sr season of college. Without the Spurs, he probably puts up much better individual numbers, as he would have been given the reigns on any team he was drafted on, right from the start.
Yeah, was really hesitant to put Duncan, and to a slightly lesser extent Brady and Dirk, in that list, however from a team success stand point, I stand by my comment. I think the different career arcs of Duncan vs KG gives the best representation of my point. So yeah, he was going to be great regardless, but it might be the difference of all-time great vs a great NBA player.
Re: RE: Re:
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:13 pm
by ckman
It's not false at all, at least on this board , we got post after post about how Kawhi is a system player, how he just a 2nd option on a championship team , can't lead it. the Spurs perform better without him or Harden, Westbrook etc. much better than him....
I'd say he's pretty underrated by the fans
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:23 pm
by mattao313
Has his defense taken a step back?
Re: RE: Re:
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:44 pm
by NewEra21
Well I would say he's only hardly talked about amongst fans because he doesn't have the persona that matches his game. Amazing how the Spurs were able to snatch Tim Duncan 2.0 in the middle of a "weak" draft.
And because of his non larger than life persona and the fact that his team always seems to be winning with no drama, there's nothing but really good things to say LeBron. His team wins and he literally says nothing to get himself or his team into hot water. Is what it is. God bless Kawhi Leonard.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:44 pm
by London2Boston
He definitely needs more MVP talk. He's putting up great numbers, is a better defender than all rivals for it and is the sole all star on a team not far from a team with four all star players.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:46 pm
by aHealthy3
KD could at least "dream of" a DPOY.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:48 pm
by LeeBlaze
It's amazing how Spurs continue to find these types of players. D Rob passing the torch to TD, and TD passing the torch to Kawhi. Kawhi is the perfect definition of a silent killer.
What I appreciate most is the no ego hard working aspect the Spurs culture has produced. These days with social media where star players are lashing out, Spurs continue to remain in the background and continue a winning tradition.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:00 pm
by Patches Perry
He is in the group with Curry, Durant, Westbrook and Harden in my opinion. LeBron first, then any of those 5 have a great argument at being 2nd best player in the league depending on the night and what you prefer.
Underrated by some because of his personality and Spurs culture, but real basketball heads know he is something serious.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:03 pm
by zimpy27
Yeah he's very underrated but I must say that DPOY loses its cred when LeBron, Duncan and Bogut are without one.
Re: RE: Re:
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:06 pm
by JonW138
ckman wrote:It's not false at all, at least on this board , we got post after post about how Kawhi is a system player, how he just a 2nd option on a championship team , can't lead it. the Spurs perform better without him or Harden, Westbrook etc. much better than him....
I'd say he's pretty underrated by the fans
If we're being accurate though, he hasn't gotten past the 2nd round as the main guy, and both Westbrook/Harden are having better years than him individually.
If you put him on a mediocre team w/o Popovich, how many games would he win?
So, what has changed those narratives that he's a system player who is just a 2nd option on a title team and is a lesser player than Westbrook/Harden?
Not saying this to discredit Leonard, just saying him avg 26 ppg on 49/41/91 doesn't really prove anything with regards to your points.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:17 pm
by bleeds_purple
The thing that knocks him down a peg is that he still hasn't proven himself to be a reliable number one option in the playoffs. And keep in mind when I say that I'm using that as a comparison to the Lebrons and Kobes of the world. Not a big knock but a differentiator nonetheless.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:18 pm
by Hoopz Afrik
mattao313 wrote:Has his defense taken a step back?
The eye test suggests he hasn't but a lot of the metrics suggest that the team performs better defensively when he's on the bench. I still say he's the best perimeter defender in the league.
That being said I haven't seen more than 8 Spurs games this season so maybe someone who watches them a little more frequently can provide more thorough insight.
Re: "System Player" Kawhi 26 ppg on 49/41/91, dominating star SFs..
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:27 pm
by TurboTitan
Best player in the nba