RealGM

No. What's wrong with being number 2?

he will be up there but never among jordan

Dominater wrote:we live in a society where everything current is the best

We live in a society where everything old can't be beat.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

GlenRiceARoni wrote:If Lebron can't be the greatest ever because of 2011 then Jordan can't be the greatest ever because of 1995. Bird and Magic obviously choked in the finals too.

I'm going with Brandon Rush as the greatest ever. The Warriors unraveled in the finals the year after he left

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

Jordan dropped 8 points in the NBA 1995 Finals? I could've swore the comment made was on the "NBA Finals" Not "Conference Finals" Where's the stats for that "95 Finals" with Jordan in it? Don't recall MJ having an 8 point game in the NBA Finals. LeBron was historically choke bad in the 11 Finals.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using RealGM mobile app

Froob wrote:Not right now....when he retires I think he'll be in the GOAT debate though with MJ, Wilt, Kareem, and Russ.

Always wondered what would have happened if Magic never got HIV and Bird never blew out his back...

yesh wrote:So let me get this straight; Jordan does what Jordan does, and Lebron gets to choke a finals, forms the first superteam, the decision, loses another finals embarrassingly by the largest margin in history, but has 2 outstanding finals and people are saying he's surpassed what MJ did? After crying to the league to suspend Draymond? Errrrr ok

Lebron is Lebron because of his freakish build. Swap MJ and lebrons bodies and what do you seriously think MJ would do in that frame versus what LBJ would do in Jordans?

Michael Jordan literally quit on his team for two years. He then came back to a superteam that had added an all star in Harper and added Kukoc in his absence (ETA-added Rodman too). One thing that annoys me about all the blowing of MJ is it never gets brought up that he quit on his team. Everyone bashes the current stars LBJ and KD for leaving their hometown to play elsewhere but MJ gets no hard time for quitting on his team.

I would rank MJ as the best ever. But this narrative that ESPN has spun like he never lost a playoff game and that he's far and away better than everyone imo is false and overblown. Yet it's now been ingrained into everyone as a fact. I put MJ #1 but it's a heck of a lot closer than most will admit. Basically can throw MJ, Bird, Magic, LBJ, Wilt and maybe one or two more in a discussion and it's damn close, but I go MJ just because I'd want him with the ball in his hands with the game on the line more than the others, though Bird is damn close in that argument too. ESPN acts like MJ is like Gretzky where it's not even close, I just don't see it that way at all.

No. I don't think he'll catch him either.

I'll say it straight up. After 2011 Lebron is NEVER gonna catch Jordan IMO. Leaving a title on the table is bad but being the reason your team lost means you're automatically out of GOAT conversation for me.

GreenBloodedC wrote:Not yet. But if they defeat this GSW team, oh boy. You know we'll have this conversation.

Thats what people said last year.

But its LeBron--so there are always more hills to climb. Its like a game with people.

**LeBron Does LeBron Things**
"Now do this"

**LeBron does more LeBron Things**
"Okay cool, but I bet he cant do that"

**LeBron does crazier LeBron Things**
"Well..he didnt do it against these guys"

**LeBron Does It Against Those Guys**
"Yea well do it again, once or twice is a fluke"

**LeBron Does It Again**
"Fine, but he still wasnt able to do THIS"

**LeBron Does That LeBron Thing Again But Better**
"But it wasnt against anybody special team!!"

**LeBron Beats the Most Winning Team in NBA RS History"
"DO IT AGAIN FUNNY MAN YOUR NOT DONE YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

**LeBron Gearing Up For 7th Straight Finals**

LivingLegend wrote:

GreenBloodedC wrote:Not yet. But if they defeat this GSW team, oh boy. You know we'll have this conversation.

Thats what people said last year.

But its LeBron--so there are always more hills to climb. Its like a game with people.

**LeBron Does LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does more LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does crazier LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Against Those Guys**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Again**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does That LeBron Thing Again But Better**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Beats the Most Winning Team in NBA RS History"
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Gearing Up For 7th Straight Finals**
"2011 happen"

Deal with it LeBron, GOAT ship was sail away when 2011 happen

I think he's close, but we've seen the best of LeBron already and he doesn't quite match up to the best of MJ.

jimmy_smith wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

GreenBloodedC wrote:Not yet. But if they defeat this GSW team, oh boy. You know we'll have this conversation.

Thats what people said last year.

But its LeBron--so there are always more hills to climb. Its like a game with people.

**LeBron Does LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does more LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does crazier LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Against Those Guys**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Again**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does That LeBron Thing Again But Better**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Beats the Most Winning Team in NBA RS History"
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Gearing Up For 7th Straight Finals**
"2011 happen"

Deal with it LeBron, GOAT ship was sail away when 2011 happen

Yeah, because someones who'll end up playing like the most playoffs games in history should be judged by 1 serie. No player in NBA history has been under as much pressure as LBJ had in the 2011 Finals. He lost to an all time great playing at his ultimate peak. He definitely shat the bed in the serie. But that was 5 seasons ago. Since then, he has 3 won 3 rings and been the best player in every single Finals. Whenever he didn't win finals MVP, it was given to the player tasked with guarding him, that's how dominant he's been.

shukle wrote:

jimmy_smith wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Thats what people said last year.

But its LeBron--so there are always more hills to climb. Its like a game with people.

**LeBron Does LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does more LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does crazier LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Against Those Guys**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Again**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does That LeBron Thing Again But Better**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Beats the Most Winning Team in NBA RS History"
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Gearing Up For 7th Straight Finals**
"2011 happen"

Deal with it LeBron, GOAT ship was sail away when 2011 happen

Yeah, because someones who'll end up playing like the most playoffs games in history should be judged by 1 serie. No player in NBA history has been under as much pressure as LBJ had in the 2011 Finals. He lost to an all time great playing at his ultimate peak. He definitely shat the bed in the serie. But that was 5 seasons ago. Since then, he has 3 won 3 rings and been the best player in every single Finals. Whenever he didn't win finals MVP, it was given to the player tasked with guarding him, that's how dominant he's been.

He should be under that kind of pressure. He is the best player in the league (without a doubt) And he decided to form his own superteam. Pressure was rightfully deserved, IMO.


And we are not simply talking about being great. We are talking about being the GOAT. All things would be taken into account, including 1 horrible series.

To answer the question, as of right now, no. I don't think the argument is even close. I think LeBron would have to get at least 5 before he succeeds the GOAT.

OT: The amount of disrespect Bill Russell gets in the GOAT conversation is on the upper limit of ridiculous. Especially when people try to insert Wilt.

jimmy_smith wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

GreenBloodedC wrote:Not yet. But if they defeat this GSW team, oh boy. You know we'll have this conversation.

Thats what people said last year.

But its LeBron--so there are always more hills to climb. Its like a game with people.

**LeBron Does LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does more LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron does crazier LeBron Things**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Against Those Guys**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does It Again**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Does That LeBron Thing Again But Better**
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Beats the Most Winning Team in NBA RS History"
"2011 happen"

**LeBron Gearing Up For 7th Straight Finals**
"2011 happen"

Deal with it LeBron, GOAT ship was sail away when 2011 happen

The same way it sails away when you get bounced out of the 1st round THREE times like Jordan when LeBron has 0 first round exits?

dr3am wrote:

GlenRiceARoni wrote:If Lebron can't be the greatest ever because of 2011 then Jordan can't be the greatest ever because of 1995. Bird and Magic obviously choked in the finals too.

I'm going with Brandon Rush as the greatest ever. The Warriors unraveled in the finals the year after he left

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

Jordan dropped 8 points in the NBA 1995 Finals? I could've swore the comment made was on the "NBA Finals" Not "Conference Finals" Where's the stats for that "95 Finals" with Jordan in it? Don't recall MJ having an 8 point game in the NBA Finals. LeBron was historically choke bad in the 11 Finals.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using RealGM mobile app

And LeBron was historically good the last two Finals. LeBron never lost a 1 round series regardless of how bad his supporting cast. Jordan never beat a 70 win team on a 1-3 comeback in the Finals. Jordan also never lead both teams in ever statistical category in any playoff series or Finals. In fact, Jordan never beat a team better than his. Do those little nuggets compensate for LeBron's one true choke in 2011? I know MJ is the GOAT and all, but despite that, he wasn't without his flaws.

infinite11285 wrote:

dr3am wrote:

GlenRiceARoni wrote:If Lebron can't be the greatest ever because of 2011 then Jordan can't be the greatest ever because of 1995. Bird and Magic obviously choked in the finals too.

I'm going with Brandon Rush as the greatest ever. The Warriors unraveled in the finals the year after he left

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

Jordan dropped 8 points in the NBA 1995 Finals? I could've swore the comment made was on the "NBA Finals" Not "Conference Finals" Where's the stats for that "95 Finals" with Jordan in it? Don't recall MJ having an 8 point game in the NBA Finals. LeBron was historically choke bad in the 11 Finals.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using RealGM mobile app

And LeBron was historically good the last two Finals. LeBron never lost a 1 round series regardless of how bad his supporting cast. Jordan never beat a 70 win team on a 1-3 comeback in the Finals. Jordan also never lead both teams in ever statistical category in any playoff series or Finals. In fact, Jordan never beat a team better than his. Do those little nuggets compensate for LeBron's one true choke in 2011? I know MJ is the GOAT and all, but despite that, he wasn't without his flaws.

*Yawns* keep trying to twist everything to try & protect LeBron, he's never catching the GOAT Point Blank Period. I followed every single Heat game that season. LeBron was flat out bad offensively & defensively that series. Complete meltdown in what happened to be not his 1st but 2nd Finals appearance. Jordan never let a Finals go to Game 7 that's a fact.

Stadium5 wrote:

TeK wrote:Put it this way...

If I can go back in time knowing what I know today, and the draft was a 20yr old Wilt, MJ, Kobe, Lebron, and Shaq, I would draft

1-Wilt
2-MJ
3-Kobe
4-Lebron
5-Shaq
6-Bird

How could you possibly draft Kobe over LBJ and Shaq?

Well, if MJ is #2, Kobe is the closest thing to MJ there was and probably will be.

That, and that killer instinct to kill their opponent.

Finals records

MJ 6-0
Kobe 5-2
Lebron 2-4
Shaq 4-2

dr3am wrote:

infinite11285 wrote:

dr3am wrote:Jordan dropped 8 points in the NBA 1995 Finals? I could've swore the comment made was on the "NBA Finals" Not "Conference Finals" Where's the stats for that "95 Finals" with Jordan in it? Don't recall MJ having an 8 point game in the NBA Finals. LeBron was historically choke bad in the 11 Finals.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using RealGM mobile app

And LeBron was historically good the last two Finals. LeBron never lost a 1 round series regardless of how bad his supporting cast. Jordan never beat a 70 win team on a 1-3 comeback in the Finals. Jordan also never lead both teams in ever statistical category in any playoff series or Finals. In fact, Jordan never beat a team better than his. Do those little nuggets compensate for LeBron's one true choke in 2011? I know MJ is the GOAT and all, but despite that, he wasn't without his flaws.

*Yawns* keep trying to twist everything to try & protect LeBron, he's never catching the GOAT Point Blank Period. I followed every single Heat game that season. LeBron was flat out bad offensively & defensively that series. Complete meltdown in what happened to be not his 1st but 2nd Finals appearance. Jordan never let a Finals go to Game 7 that's a fact.

Lol nice way to not answer my question. There's no need to "protect" the most decorated player currently in the league. I said MJ is the GOAT and never said LeBron will be that in my eyes. I pointed out the fact Jordan had his flaws and meltdowns as well and asked does LBJ's performances in the last 2 Finals make-up for 2011? Try to stay on subject this time.

MrBigShot wrote:I think he's close, but we've seen the best of LeBron already and he doesn't quite match up to the best of MJ.

He had more point, rebounds, and assists than any player on either team in 2 consecutive finals. How many players are capable of doing that?