Is Durant now the Savior?

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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#81 » by Pablo Escobar » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:28 am

It's tough to replace a guy that can give you 25+ on elite efficiency while playing amazing defense as well. He's clearly been their best player this season, so of course they were gonna struggle. But the splash bros are in a slump and their bench is pretty weak, also them starting mccaw over iggy makes no sense.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#82 » by tundraknight » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:53 am

What happened to last seasons Warriors that broke the regular season wins record without Durant on the roster?

Stronger interior defense? (Bogut and Ezeli)

Luke Walton >>>> Steve Kerr as Head Coach?

Curry declining or just in a huge slump?

Harrison Barnes impact was undervalued?

Perhaps a combination of all of the above?
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#83 » by G35 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:00 am

Imo, Steph is still great, Klay is still great, but you aren't going to win just bombing from the outside. They need another threat. This is like:

Lillard/CJ
Derozan/Lowry
Wall/Beal


You can have the nicest backcourt you want but you need another threat. That is what Houston did by surrounding Harden with shooters everywhere.

So after Steph/Klay....who are you shooters?

3PA on the Warriors (not counting Barnes he just got there)

Draymond
Iguodola
Ian Clark

That is pretty much it. Draymond is not a stretch four, period. Last year was an anomaly and he is back to shooting under his career avg.

So in the starting lineup there is no one else who is going to space the floor. Furthermore, teams do not respect Draymond's outside shooting. And I don't blame them, he can't shoot. He also cannot create off the dribble so unless he has a wide open lane, he really is not much of a scoring threat. In my mind Draymond is closing off the floor for the Warriors.

When KD was there it was not a problem because it's frigging KD, he creates all sorts of matchup problems by himself. He is a threat from everywhere on the floor. But when he is missing that means now the focus is going to Klay and Steph and they can pack the lane while playing out on those two. Who else is a threat on the Warriors? It should be Draymond when everyone says he is a top 10-15 player in the league. But this is an example of why he is not; right now the Warriors need more scoring from him and that is just not in his skill set.

Furthermore, Green is not a defensive anchor. He switches, but guess what, if you do not have that backstop (Bogut) or someone who can meet people at the rim (Durant) then it doesn't matter how much you can switch because players are going to take it to the rim. They don't fear the Warriors defense anymore. Why should they? The Warriors are getting killed on the boards. In the Warriors last eight games their opponents are a +36 in rebounding and have been rebounded in every game except against the Celtics (46-45) and that throwaway game vs the Spurs (49-46).

The Warriors are having to fight too hard every game because they can't rebound and it is giving their opponents more opportunities to score, while they have to be perfect on the offensive end (which they are not). I am putting this more on Draymond who needs to do some more big man duties instead of trying to get out on the break and get assists. He needs to be getting double digit rebounds with Durant sidelined and make himself more of a threat on the offensive but I don't know he can do that.....
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#84 » by Simmons25 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:18 am

Torchmode wrote:I look at it like this.

If the warriors had brought back the same core, they would have had these 3 players available. Bogut/Ezili are out for the season, they would not be playing.

Speights
Barnes
Barbosa

Are the warriors really missing these 3 players? Barbosa and Speights are on minimum deals, and Barnes needed to go, he was useless in the playoffs, many Dubs fans did not want to resign him, even if they werent going to get KD.

I feel like David West, Matt Barnes, Durant, and Zaza will be a much better core for the PLAYOFFS. But thats just me.


Sliding doors. Bogut would never have broken his leg if he was still at the Warriors.. it's an impact injury not an age/tissue/recurrent injury. Could happen to a 21 year old.

Ezeli yes but Ezeli has hardly played much the last 2 years anyway. He didn't contribute greatly.

Barnes, Speights and Barbosa contributed a lot more than you probably want to remember. You've convinced yourself otherwise. Sometimes it's a locker room presence as well that matters.

I can only imagine the difference in having Barbosa in the locker room playing jokes compared to Javale McButthurt.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#85 » by mihail_petkov » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:47 am

TMU wrote:So, anyone still doubting that Durant is better than Curry?

So looking at the results during these ~10 games, we can also conclude that Curry is the worst 3pt shooter in NBA history :D Steph has better on/off than Durant, his impact is bigger. He is just having the worst 10 games in his career.

Steve Kerr is overrated as coach. He was one of the reasons why Warriors didn't win last year. He almost lost them 2005 Finals. This season he changed the system for Durant instead of finding a way to use his strengths in the working system.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#86 » by sule » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:55 am

OsuCavsfan103 wrote:
Heck he even goes to battle daily with his hair loss lol.



LeBron knows the deal he made with the devil. Every shot made is another hair lost. :lol:
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Re: RE: Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#87 » by NyCeEvO » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:03 am

mihail_petkov wrote:The problem is Kerr. He changed the system to fit Durant which was awful decision. Now Durant is out, the main core looks same as last year but they are out of rhythm. They can't switch the system so easily after 5 games and be good again.

Exactly, although I wouldn't say Kerr or what he did was a "problem". It was a strategic decision.

A lot of people wondered how Durant was going to "fit in" with the Warriors. Kerr and his staff basically said we're not going to simply add him as an ancillary piece (like a super H.Barnes), they're going to make the system revolve around him.

Last year's team was the culmination of several years of chemistry building. Overall, they were less talented compared to this year's team but their chemistry was at a GOAT level. (Remember Miami was more talented than Dallas in 2011 but DAL coaching, chemistry, and personnel was able to overcome Miami 's talent. But once Miami got more time and more chemistry, they really started rolling.)

With KD, Curry couldn't play as free as he used to (either by design or by choice). And just as they're trying to become a more cohesive unit, the huge piece that was at the core of their process is now removed. Not only do the Warriors no longer have the same pieces as last year (and thus can't simply switch back into last year's mode), people are understating how important cohesion is. Steph could very well be going through a slump but it's very hard to adjust your play style in such big ways for several months and then be told to revert back to what you used to be.

This is as different team and because KD was made to be a big component of its overall constitution, you can't just simply replace him.

A similar thing happens when LBJ sits a game. Obviously the Cavs are much worse without him but because LBJ is the system, you can't just remove him for a game or two and have everything go according to plan.

The effect of KD's injury has made the rest of the regular season pretty intriguing. The Warriors will have to try to come together as a team knowing that they will have to re-adjust yet again near or during the playoffs. Maybe things will click instantly once KD is re-inserted into the lineup but maybe it won't. Maybe they will need more time to get re-acclimated...but the question is can the Warriors afford the time to get re-acclimated? Will another strong opponent catch them before they're back to full strength?

Stay tuned for the next episode of NBA basketball!

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Re: RE: Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#88 » by cavs4life03 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:30 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
mihail_petkov wrote:The problem is Kerr. He changed the system to fit Durant which was awful decision. Now Durant is out, the main core looks same as last year but they are out of rhythm. They can't switch the system so easily after 5 games and be good again.

Exactly, although I wouldn't say Kerr or what he did was a "problem". It was a strategic decision.

A lot of people wondered how Durant was going to "fit in" with the Warriors. Kerr and his staff basically said we're not going to simply add him as an ancillary piece (like a super H.Barnes), they're going to make the system revolve around him.

Last year's team was the culmination of several years of chemistry building. Overall, they were less talented compared to this year's team but their chemistry was at a GOAT level. (Remember Miami was more talented than Dallas in 2011 but DAL coaching, chemistry, and personnel was able to overcome Miami 's talent. But once Miami got more time and more chemistry, they really started rolling.)

With KD, Curry couldn't play as free as he used to (either by design or by choice). And just as they're trying to become a more cohesive unit, the huge piece that was at the core of their process is now removed. Not only do the Warriors no longer have the same pieces as last year (and thus can't simply switch back into last year's mode), people are understating how important cohesion is. Steph could very well be going through a slump but it's very hard to adjust your play style in such big ways for several months and then be told to revert back to what you used to be.

This is as different team and because KD was made to be a big component of its overall constitution, you can't just simply replace him.

A similar thing happens when LBJ sits a game. Obviously the Cavs are much worse without him but because LBJ is the system, you can't just remove him for a game or two and have everything go according to plan.

The effect of KD's injury has made the rest of the regular season pretty intriguing. The Warriors will have to try to come together as a team knowing that they will have to re-adjust yet again near or during the playoffs. Maybe things will click instantly once KD is re-inserted into the lineup but maybe it won't. Maybe they will need more time to get re-acclimated...but the question is can the Warriors afford the time to get re-acclimated? Will another strong opponent catch them before they're back to full strength?

Stay tuned for the next episode of NBA basketball!

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Great post!!!!!!!!! i read the last part like dbz it was amazing lol.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#89 » by laika » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:05 pm

baller16 wrote:Where are all the Warriors fans that said Curry was the better player because the net rating said so? LOL


Curry is still easily the Warrior's MVP. There have been two main problems since Durant has been out-

-The bench has been horrific when Curry isn't in the game.

-Kerr is playing a really stupid starting lineup. Iguodala should definitely be starting over McCaw.
The Warriors' best lineup(Curry/Thompson/Iguodala/Green/Pachulia) has played a grand total of 9 minutes together since Durant has been out. That is insane. Kerr is practically sabotaging the team right now.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#90 » by OsuCavsfan103 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:56 pm

sule wrote:
OsuCavsfan103 wrote:
Heck he even goes to battle daily with his hair loss lol.



LeBron knows the deal he made with the devil. Every shot made is another hair lost. :lol:


Hahaha for sure. If he would focus more on his FTs and less on regaining his hair in his epic fight against hair loss, he would probably be an 85% FT shooter lol.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#91 » by Drylick » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:42 pm

Not really. The reason why GSW is struggling without him is because they lost most of their major role players from the past years. Give those players back, return Durant to OKC, and GSW would have less than ten losses at this point.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#92 » by ChartFiction » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:57 pm

It's been my unpopular opinion that Durant has been the best player in the league since 2014 when he won his MVP. People were getting ready to crown him after that season but pushed him aside for various reasons (injury the following year, stats went back down cause Westbrook came back, Curry emerges)
Injured in 2015.
Beat the 67 win Spurs in 2016 and took a completely healthy Golden State to 7, would have beat them too if Bogut got injured and the league suspended Draymond like they should have in the WCF, not just in the finals, which are two things that the Cavs benefited from.
The value he brings to a team is showing again in 2017, on both sides of the court.

He also has a legitimate case for being the greatest scorer ever.

I really wish he went somewhere else so we would have gotten to see one full season of him on his own because I think people severely underrate what he's capable of.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#93 » by kabstah » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:16 pm

ChartFiction wrote:It's been my unpopular opinion that Durant has been the best player in the league since 2014 when he won his MVP. People were getting ready to crown him after that season but pushed him aside for various reasons (injury the following year, stats went back down cause Westbrook came back, Curry emerges)
Injured in 2015.
Beat the 67 win Spurs in 2016 and took a completely healthy Golden State to 7, would have beat them too if Bogut got injured and the league suspended Draymond like they should have in the WCF, not just in the finals, which are two things that the Cavs benefited from.
The value he brings to a team is showing again in 2017, on both sides of the court.

He also has a legitimate case for being the greatest scorer ever.

I really wish he went somewhere else so we would have gotten to see one full season of him on his own because I think people severely underrate what he's capable of.

Durant's never taken the crown of best player because he has been really shaky in the PS ever since 2012. I think a lot of it is due to a sloppy handle, and he can't get to his spots as easily as in the RS. That and the fact that his normally great 3 point shooting turns mediocre, despite taking more of them in the PS. Perhaps that will change this year now that he's surrounded by more playmakers and does not have to handle the ball as much as in year's past. Hopefully he's healthy in time for the PS and doesn't suffer too much from rust.

Insofar as last year's WCF, suspending Draymond would have done nothing to help OKC, because they won the game in which the suspension would have taken place. A non-suspension in the Finals is very unlikely to have affected the outcome either, since GSW lost the suspension game by 15 points -- more than is reasonable to expect a single player make up.

As far as Andrew Bogut, he was valuable against OKC, but I'm unconvinced that his absence actually hurt GSW's chances in the Finals. If you recall 2015, the turning point in that Finals was Bogut being benched entirely for the last 3 games of the series. Even in the 2016 Finals, the Warriors were clearly better with Bogut on the bench. Where Cleveland did benefit and OKC did not was Iguodala's injury -- if you want to argue that might have changed the outcome of the Finals, I think that's a much more convincing argument that either Draymond or Bogut's absences.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#94 » by MoMan24 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:32 pm

He may be looked at as a Savior now but to most people including me we will always remember that he choked away a 3-1 lead, played horrible in the 4th quarter of game 6 in that series vs GSW, and then leaves a contender that he is on to join a 73-9 team with the back to back MVP who almost won back to back titles. Those facts right there to me can not be forgotten. Now the team is struggling and he can be the hero and that is great for him.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#95 » by Edrees » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:09 am

Simmons25 wrote:
Torchmode wrote:I look at it like this.

If the warriors had brought back the same core, they would have had these 3 players available. Bogut/Ezili are out for the season, they would not be playing.

Speights
Barnes
Barbosa

Are the warriors really missing these 3 players? Barbosa and Speights are on minimum deals, and Barnes needed to go, he was useless in the playoffs, many Dubs fans did not want to resign him, even if they werent going to get KD.

I feel like David West, Matt Barnes, Durant, and Zaza will be a much better core for the PLAYOFFS. But thats just me.


Sliding doors. Bogut would never have broken his leg if he was still at the Warriors.. it's an impact injury not an age/tissue/recurrent injury. Could happen to a 21 year old.

Ezeli yes but Ezeli has hardly played much the last 2 years anyway. He didn't contribute greatly.

Barnes, Speights and Barbosa contributed a lot more than you probably want to remember. You've convinced yourself otherwise. Sometimes it's a locker room presence as well that matters.

I can only imagine the difference in having Barbosa in the locker room playing jokes compared to Javale McButthurt.


Bogut hasn't been able to play much all season long. He was inevitably going to get injured. Honestly the difference is Barnes being in the lineup, of course with Durant it's a huge upgrade, but without barnes and Durant it's a serious hit. The value of these other 10-12 mpg scrubs is seriously being overvalued here
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#96 » by Simmons25 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:22 am

Edrees wrote:
Simmons25 wrote:
Torchmode wrote:I look at it like this.

If the warriors had brought back the same core, they would have had these 3 players available. Bogut/Ezili are out for the season, they would not be playing.

Speights
Barnes
Barbosa

Are the warriors really missing these 3 players? Barbosa and Speights are on minimum deals, and Barnes needed to go, he was useless in the playoffs, many Dubs fans did not want to resign him, even if they werent going to get KD.

I feel like David West, Matt Barnes, Durant, and Zaza will be a much better core for the PLAYOFFS. But thats just me.


Sliding doors. Bogut would never have broken his leg if he was still at the Warriors.. it's an impact injury not an age/tissue/recurrent injury. Could happen to a 21 year old.

Ezeli yes but Ezeli has hardly played much the last 2 years anyway. He didn't contribute greatly.

Barnes, Speights and Barbosa contributed a lot more than you probably want to remember. You've convinced yourself otherwise. Sometimes it's a locker room presence as well that matters.

I can only imagine the difference in having Barbosa in the locker room playing jokes compared to Javale McButthurt.


Bogut hasn't been able to play much all season long. He was inevitably going to get injured. Honestly the difference is Barnes being in the lineup, of course with Durant it's a huge upgrade, but without barnes and Durant it's a serious hit. The value of these other 10-12 mpg scrubs is seriously being overvalued here


I think you're undervaluing locker room guys and how important players are off the floor as much as on it. As I said it's as much what players don't do on the court as what they do.. and how it affects the games of guys like Steph.

End of the day they lost a core bunch of 5 players that were all contributing in some way to make them a 73-9 and championship winning team. You can't just remove 33-40% of the team and say everything is going to be as good or better than before by bringing in a ball dominant guy like Durant. This isn't NBA2K17 GM mode.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#97 » by Edrees » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:34 am

Simmons25 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
Simmons25 wrote:
Sliding doors. Bogut would never have broken his leg if he was still at the Warriors.. it's an impact injury not an age/tissue/recurrent injury. Could happen to a 21 year old.

Ezeli yes but Ezeli has hardly played much the last 2 years anyway. He didn't contribute greatly.

Barnes, Speights and Barbosa contributed a lot more than you probably want to remember. You've convinced yourself otherwise. Sometimes it's a locker room presence as well that matters.

I can only imagine the difference in having Barbosa in the locker room playing jokes compared to Javale McButthurt.


Bogut hasn't been able to play much all season long. He was inevitably going to get injured. Honestly the difference is Barnes being in the lineup, of course with Durant it's a huge upgrade, but without barnes and Durant it's a serious hit. The value of these other 10-12 mpg scrubs is seriously being overvalued here


I think you're undervaluing locker room guys and how important players are off the floor as much as on it. As I said it's as much what players don't do on the court as what they do.. and how it affects the games of guys like Steph.

End of the day they lost a core bunch of 5 players that were all contributing in some way to make them a 73-9 and championship winning team. You can't just remove 33-40% of the team and say everything is going to be as good or better than before by bringing in a ball dominant guy like Durant. This isn't NBA2K17 GM mode.


I'm not sure what you are argueing anymore, the Warriors, statistically, ARE better by adding durant and removing 33% of the team. They have a better net rating as a tea, especially after figuring out how to incorporate KD. The issue here is why the Warriors without durant are so much worse than the warriors of last year. You're confusing two topics now.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#98 » by Simmons25 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:43 am

Edrees wrote:
Simmons25 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
Bogut hasn't been able to play much all season long. He was inevitably going to get injured. Honestly the difference is Barnes being in the lineup, of course with Durant it's a huge upgrade, but without barnes and Durant it's a serious hit. The value of these other 10-12 mpg scrubs is seriously being overvalued here


I think you're undervaluing locker room guys and how important players are off the floor as much as on it. As I said it's as much what players don't do on the court as what they do.. and how it affects the games of guys like Steph.

End of the day they lost a core bunch of 5 players that were all contributing in some way to make them a 73-9 and championship winning team. You can't just remove 33-40% of the team and say everything is going to be as good or better than before by bringing in a ball dominant guy like Durant. This isn't NBA2K17 GM mode.


I'm not sure what you are argueing anymore, the Warriors, statistically, ARE better by adding durant and removing 33% of the team. They have a better net rating as a tea, especially after figuring out how to incorporate KD. The issue here is why the Warriors without durant are so much worse than the warriors of last year. You're confusing two topics now.


Statistically better with Durant? :lol: :lol: No. Last year they were blowing out teams and 73-9. They are not doing that this year and don't have the same record. Statistically they are not better.

And if you dont know why the Warriors without Durant are worse than last year's Warriors.... then you missed the entire point of my post.
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#99 » by ShazamDaShiznt » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:47 am

tundraknight wrote:What happened to last seasons Warriors that broke the regular season wins record without Durant on the roster?

Stronger interior defense? (Bogut and Ezeli)

Luke Walton >>>> Steve Kerr as Head Coach?

Curry declining or just in a huge slump?

Harrison Barnes impact was undervalued?

Perhaps a combination of all of the above?


it dont matter lol

ezeli and bogut ended their season,warriors avoided them

walton is tanking right now

barnes is super inefficient player and he was one of main reasons why they lost in the playoffs

basically warrios would have never repeated their success in this season whether they had same roster or not
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Re: Is Durant now the Savior? 

Post#100 » by AdagioPace » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:12 am

Nope
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