Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana?

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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#21 » by Bergmaniac » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:29 pm

bwgood77 wrote:They are probably exceeding expectations this year as well.

Not thanks to Donovan, he's been pretty terrible.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#22 » by bwgood77 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:33 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:They are probably exceeding expectations this year as well.

Not thanks to Donovan, he's been pretty terrible.


They seem to have played much better after Donovan emphasized Westbrook focus more on assists and getting teammates involved than trying to do everything himself. Obviously Dipo coming back and Gibson/McDermott help as well, but it seems many think they simply lacked much talent outside of Westbrook.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#23 » by Patches Perry » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:50 pm

I didn't realize people thought Donovan was a bust. I think he has done a fair job.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#24 » by bondom34 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:56 pm

ThomYorke wrote:Given the vitrolic criticism that Scott Brooks faced before OKC eventually fired him, in comparison to the pretty good job he has done in Washington. It is also weird to see one of the more highly rated college coaches becoming a 'bust' coach in the NBA too.

Is it an issue with OKC? Or are their coaches simply judged too harshly?

Brooks was. Donovan's gotten a pass from most everyone in OKC. Brooks was pretty clearly a better coach though.

Doctor MJ wrote:
DowJones wrote:Indiana Hoosiers...not Pacers. That is the early talk from IU fans. If so, how does thst impact Westbrook's future?


Honestly to me it seems like Westbrook largely plays the same way no matter what the coach says.


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This seems to dismiss the pretty drastic change in distribution and passing in his game.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#25 » by Gary Cokeman » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:05 pm

Patches Perry wrote:I didn't realize people thought Donovan was a bust. I think he has done a fair job.


Well, considering how much they blamed Scott Brooks for everything, and he's clearly a better coach than Billy Donovan, I'd say he's pretty much been getting a pass.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#26 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:25 pm

bondom34 wrote:
ThomYorke wrote:Given the vitrolic criticism that Scott Brooks faced before OKC eventually fired him, in comparison to the pretty good job he has done in Washington. It is also weird to see one of the more highly rated college coaches becoming a 'bust' coach in the NBA too.

Is it an issue with OKC? Or are their coaches simply judged too harshly?

Brooks was. Donovan's gotten a pass from most everyone in OKC. Brooks was pretty clearly a better coach though.

Doctor MJ wrote:
DowJones wrote:Indiana Hoosiers...not Pacers. That is the early talk from IU fans. If so, how does thst impact Westbrook's future?


Honestly to me it seems like Westbrook largely plays the same way no matter what the coach says.


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This seems to dismiss the pretty drastic change in distribution and passing in his game.


Are you crediting Donovan with this?
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#27 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Gary Cokeman wrote:
Patches Perry wrote:I didn't realize people thought Donovan was a bust. I think he has done a fair job.


Well, considering how much they blamed Scott Brooks for everything, and he's clearly a better coach than Billy Donovan, I'd say he's pretty much been getting a pass.


I don't know if it's clear that Brooks is better than Donovan. Donovan coached some beautifully intelligent teams in Florida just as Brooks is doing in Washington now.

At this point I just think it doesn't seem to matter who coaches in OKC.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#28 » by Patches Perry » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:38 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Gary Cokeman wrote:
Patches Perry wrote:I didn't realize people thought Donovan was a bust. I think he has done a fair job.


Well, considering how much they blamed Scott Brooks for everything, and he's clearly a better coach than Billy Donovan, I'd say he's pretty much been getting a pass.


I don't know if it's clear that Brooks is better than Donovan. Donovan coached some beautifully intelligent teams in Florida just as Brooks is doing in Washington now.

At this point I just think it doesn't seem to matter who coaches in OKC.


Brooks and Donovan are interchangeable as NBA coaches. NBA coaching just doesn't matter that much. Besides the Pop and Phil class of coaches, and the very worst of the worst, everybody in the middle produces pretty much the same result give or take depending on circumstance. That's my view anyways.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#29 » by heatwillbeback » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:39 pm

You never know with Donovan given his history.

I doubt he leaves a good situation in OK but we will see.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#30 » by Ballerhogger » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:41 pm

He was just one game away from the finals. He won back to back college basketball championships at Florida.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#31 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:43 pm

I still have a gut feeling that Stevens will end up at IU. I know he's denying it, but he pretty much has to deny it right now no matter what. He's Indiana born and raised, and we all know how crazy that state is for their college hoops programs, especially the Hoosiers.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#32 » by bondom34 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:05 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:Are you crediting Donovan with this?

With what, Westbrook's play? Not really. He made his biggest improvements mainly with Brooks, though he's still improved a bit under Donovan most of the youth on the roster hasn't. His rotations have been questionable at best, he's fallen in love with players who aren't good but may be "hustle" guys (see Waiters, Christon) and Brooks was frankly better at both. To add, though I don't see the current roster as overly talented I do think it's better than what Brooks had to work with 2 years ago when Durant was in and out, there were big in season trades, and much worse injuries (including Ibaka, Adams, Collison, and Roberson) and Brooks managed mostly better results. To add to all of that, defense was better under Brooks.

College coaching is vastly different than NBA coaching.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#33 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:15 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Are you crediting Donovan with this?

With what, Westbrook's play? Not really. He made his biggest improvements mainly with Brooks, though he's still improved a bit under Donovan most of the youth on the roster hasn't. His rotations have been questionable at best, he's fallen in love with players who aren't good but may be "hustle" guys (see Waiters, Christon) and Brooks was frankly better at both. To add, though I don't see the current roster as overly talented I do think it's better than what Brooks had to work with 2 years ago when Durant was in and out, there were big in season trades, and much worse injuries (including Ibaka, Adams, Collison, and Roberson) and Brooks managed mostly better results. To add to all of that, defense was better under Brooks.

College coaching is vastly different than NBA coaching.


Okay, yeah that answers my question definitely. Both coaches have looked their best not in OKC - and to be clear, there's nothing about the schemes Donovan used in college that wouldn't work in the pros. I would say the reality is that Westbrook, like many stars of the past, plays instinctively and this tends to make coaches look bad.

This doesn't mean anything here is necessarily a mistake. For all we know Westbrook will be so unstoppable he'll win titles this way - though obviously I'm skeptical of this - but no matter what happens, Donovan probably is going to be viewed in a negative light. At best he'll be seen as a coach who got lucky, and at worst he'll be blamed for the lack of system which leads to role players not playing well.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#34 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:17 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:I still have a gut feeling that Stevens will end up at IU. I know he's denying it, but he pretty much has to deny it right now no matter what. He's Indiana born and raised, and we all know how crazy that state is for their college hoops programs, especially the Hoosiers.


I really don't know why any currently successful NBA coach would consider going back to college. If you can be the next Coach K that's obviously as prestigious as coaching in the NBA, but I seriously doubt that Coach K would have left a promising young pro team to go back to college back in the day had that been the situation.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#35 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:21 pm

Patches Perry wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Gary Cokeman wrote:
Well, considering how much they blamed Scott Brooks for everything, and he's clearly a better coach than Billy Donovan, I'd say he's pretty much been getting a pass.


I don't know if it's clear that Brooks is better than Donovan. Donovan coached some beautifully intelligent teams in Florida just as Brooks is doing in Washington now.

At this point I just think it doesn't seem to matter who coaches in OKC.


Brooks and Donovan are interchangeable as NBA coaches. NBA coaching just doesn't matter that much. Besides the Pop and Phil class of coaches, and the very worst of the worst, everybody in the middle produces pretty much the same result give or take depending on circumstance. That's my view anyways.


Coaching matters a great deal when the players let it matter. Pop has the success he has because he's been able to create a culture where the players come to San Antonio looking to learn.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#36 » by sp6r=underrated » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:24 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:I still have a gut feeling that Stevens will end up at IU. I know he's denying it, but he pretty much has to deny it right now no matter what. He's Indiana born and raised, and we all know how crazy that state is for their college hoops programs, especially the Hoosiers.


I really don't know why any currently successful NBA coach would consider going back to college. If you can be the next Coach K that's obviously as prestigious as coaching in the NBA, but I seriously doubt that Coach K would have left a promising young pro team to go back to college back in the day had that been the situation.


I'll disagree. I think there are huge incentives to going to college if you think NCAA shamateurism will hold up for the next few decades. A lot of the prestige programs enjoy such significant recruitment advantages you can be merely competent and roll up wins with ease and enjoy high job security. Coaches at the college level enjoy a lot more power than in the pros.

One last minor thing also makes college a decent deal. For whatever reason, college coaches enjoy an advantage over pro coaches for the HOF and being lionized as a genius.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#37 » by bondom34 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:24 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Are you crediting Donovan with this?

With what, Westbrook's play? Not really. He made his biggest improvements mainly with Brooks, though he's still improved a bit under Donovan most of the youth on the roster hasn't. His rotations have been questionable at best, he's fallen in love with players who aren't good but may be "hustle" guys (see Waiters, Christon) and Brooks was frankly better at both. To add, though I don't see the current roster as overly talented I do think it's better than what Brooks had to work with 2 years ago when Durant was in and out, there were big in season trades, and much worse injuries (including Ibaka, Adams, Collison, and Roberson) and Brooks managed mostly better results. To add to all of that, defense was better under Brooks.

College coaching is vastly different than NBA coaching.


Okay, yeah that answers my question definitely. Both coaches have looked their best not in OKC - and to be clear, there's nothing about the schemes Donovan used in college that wouldn't work in the pros. I would say the reality is that Westbrook, like many stars of the past, plays instinctively and this tends to make coaches look bad.

This doesn't mean anything here is necessarily a mistake. For all we know Westbrook will be so unstoppable he'll win titles this way - though obviously I'm skeptical of this - but no matter what happens, Donovan probably is going to be viewed in a negative light. At best he'll be seen as a coach who got lucky, and at worst he'll be blamed for the lack of system which leads to role players not playing well.

So what would you say about Durant then, if the implication here is that Westbrook didn't work with Brooks.

Because remember who else played on that team. And remember the exact same offense is now happening in Washington. With worse players.

Could it be, just maybe this time it's not Westbrook's fault?
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#38 » by bwgood77 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:35 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:I still have a gut feeling that Stevens will end up at IU. I know he's denying it, but he pretty much has to deny it right now no matter what. He's Indiana born and raised, and we all know how crazy that state is for their college hoops programs, especially the Hoosiers.


I really don't know why any currently successful NBA coach would consider going back to college. If you can be the next Coach K that's obviously as prestigious as coaching in the NBA, but I seriously doubt that Coach K would have left a promising young pro team to go back to college back in the day had that been the situation.


I'll disagree. I think there are huge incentives to going to college if you think NCAA shamateurism will hold up for the next few decades. A lot of the prestige programs enjoy such significant recruitment advantages you can be merely competent and roll up wins with ease and enjoy high job security. Coaches at the college level enjoy a lot more power than in the pros.

One last minor thing also makes college a decent deal. For whatever reason, college coaches enjoy an advantage over pro coaches for the HOF and being lionized as a genius.


But how many successful NBA coaches leave to go back to college unless they are kind of forced to? I mean Pitino and Calipari did, but they were terrible in the NBA. People are speculating in Phx that if Alford goes to Indiana (which I doubt anyway), that Watson will go to UCLA, but I don't think Watson would voluntarily leave a position in Phx that he seems to love after being in the NBA and developing so many connections over the last 15 years.

The best college coaches anyway are guys who become assistants not long after they graduate, get involved in player development at that level, recruiting, constant team turnover, etc.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#39 » by dukeknicksirish » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:37 pm

The Indiana job is still a great gig. If you can go into that program and win more games than Crean did last year, you will be a god among men in Bloomington. I feel like Steve Alford is a realistic option because he had left New Mexico with still a year left and he had a year taken off by UCLA last year on his contract. Why wouldn't he leave to go back to his home? He is an excellent recruiter and could get Indiana talent to stay in Indiana. Heck, Kris Wilkes is from North Central HS and he committed to Alford all the way in LA. Assistant coach Ed Schiling is one of the best in the business in getting talent and he could follow Alford back to Indiana and bring wins back into the program.

IU has missed out of talent such as:
Biggie to Purdue (From Fort Wayne Homestead) Indiana Mr Basketball
Trey Lyles to Kentucky (From Indianapolis Tech) Indiana Mr Basketball
Kyle Guy to Virginia (From Lawrence North) Indiana Mr Basketball
CJ Walker to Florida State (From Indianapolis Tech)
Malik Williams to Louisville (Fort Wayne Snider)
Kris Wilkes to UCLA
Jarren Jackson to MSU (La Lumiere)
Paul Scruggs to Xavier (Southport, IN)
Steve McElvene RIP to Dayton (Fort Wayne New Haven)

I know the buyout is $7 million, but it would be worth it in the long run for IU.
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Re: Will Billy Donovan leave OKC to go to Indiana? 

Post#40 » by bwgood77 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:45 pm

dukeknicksirish wrote:The Indiana job is still a great gig. If you can go into that program and win more games than Crean did last year, you will be a god among men in Bloomington. I feel like Steve Alford is a realistic option because he had left New Mexico with still a year left and he had a year taken off by UCLA last year on his contract. Why wouldn't he leave to go back to his home? He is an excellent recruiter and could get Indiana talent to stay in Indiana. Heck, Kris Wilkes is from North Central HS and he committed to Alford all the way in LA. Assistant coach Ed Schiling is one of the best in the business in getting talent and he could follow Alford back to Indiana and bring wins back into the program.

IU has missed out of talent such as:
Biggie to Purdue (From Fort Wayne Homestead) Indiana Mr Basketball
Trey Lyles to Kentucky (From Indianapolis Tech) Indiana Mr Basketball
Kyle Guy to Virginia (From Lawrence North) Indiana Mr Basketball
CJ Walker to Florida State (From Indianapolis Tech)
Malik Williams to Louisville (Fort Wayne Snider)
Kris Wilkes to UCLA
Jarren Jackson to MSU (La Lumiere)
Paul Scruggs to Xavier (Southport, IN)
Steve McElvene RIP to Dayton (Fort Wayne New Haven)

I know the buyout is $7 million, but it would be worth it in the long run for IU.


Do you think he's that great of coach? UCLA just seems like a more prestigious job, but I guess you could argue both ways on that one. It just seems crazy to leave a situation like UCLA after becoming a juggernaut, though maybe with Ball gone next year it wouldn't be sustainable.

And I guess Roy Williams did leave Kansas for North Carolina.
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