Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years?

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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#41 » by Warspite » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:11 pm

I would like to see the NCAA change its rules to allow players to return to college. I think its absurd that todays players don't enter their prime until after they sign a 2nd max contract and because of that most players never peak or even have a prime.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#42 » by HurricaneKid » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:12 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
Why can't they still develop in College?


When you are young your game needs development. You can do that in college where you have massive numbers of hours dedicated to class, homework, studying, booster events, when your practice time is literally legally limited, or you can learn with the best trainers in the world working one on one to improve your game while dietitians plan your meals, playing against the best competition the world has to offer while making 1M+ per season guaranteed.

Its no wonder why even the best college players just get further and further behind developmentally to the guys developing in the NBA.

Literally, the longer you stay in college the further behind you are. Which isn't to say there aren't exceptions to the rule. Just that there is a RULE.


The problem is that nowadays these kids are getting worshiped at 15 on AAU teams. The difference between that and the NBA lifestyle is huge. These kids dont have the life skills necessary to be professionals (In general). A lot of highly recruited players have made statements about how their college experience, if even for 1 year, helped them prepare for the demanding schedule and professionalism required in the NBA.


15? Try 12. And the more money athletes make the worse it will get. My nephew played on a top 10 national team in middle school. Every. Single. Kid. Knew. It.

That is the PC cliché answer. It doesn't make it true. It doesn't make anyone a better player. It just means no one gets offended by a young basketball player that talks about how great college was. Nevermind that they almost certainly left that idyllic situation as soon as they possibly could... And you are having an increasing number of kids come out like Ben Simmons did and destroy the NCAA as well.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#43 » by meekrab » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:28 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:European teams will not easily take a chance on a raw teenager either.

Is this a joke? European teams are happy to sign teenagers. Real Madrid's current 2nd string PG has been 18 for 20 days. :lol:
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#44 » by Optms » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:39 pm

Why?

So schools can continue to make money off of these kids' name while they make pennies? By staying another year, the top prospects stand to lose money and security due to injury as well. In a worse case scenario, the school benefits and come draft time no one will touch him with a ten foot pole. Not to mention millions in secured money will be lost.

How about instead of forcing these young adults into playing for free for another season and risking their financial future; GM's take more heat and responsibility for not properly utilizing their millions in wealth in scouting?

If you draft an 18 year old who is universally considered raw; shut up and allow development. And be prepared if the kid doesn't pan out because well - the scouting report read he was far from a finished product. You gamble. You deal with the risks.

If you are a GM and cannot keep your hard on for projects in your pants, then simply don't draft them. Simple, right? There's always a more readily seasoned prospect in most drafts in which they can choose from. But even those don't always pan out given the evidence we have. Its pointless to even mention raw prospects in light of this.

Wesley Johnson, Terrence Williams, Evan Turner, Johnny Flynn, Ekpe Udoh, Hasheem Thabeet, Thomas Robinson, Jimmy Fredette, Derrick Williams, the list goes on and on.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#45 » by Z Cabarkapa » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:20 pm

We don't even have to talk about the Lebron/Durant/Davis/Townes level players here to justify getting rid of the 1 and done, let alone doubling down on stupid and making it '2 and done'. Does anyone honestly think Jamal Murray would have improved more in a mandatory second season at Kentucky than he did this season with the Nuggets? I guarantee you that the DEN brass would much rather have Murray/Jokic under their own training and care than going to college classes right now!

All of the "these kids need to stay in school" folks are grossly misinformed. There's simply no way 30 college games (40 min games instead of 48 min, plus fewer possessions with 30 sec shot clock, 5 fouls, horrible refs, shorter 3pt line, etc) develop a young player better than an 82 game season with an NBA team. Young bigs like Myles Turner (TEX) and DeAndre Jordan (A&M) wasted their time in college - neither one started and the refs still made sure they were fouling out of games, sometimes in under 10 minutes! Then they show up to the NBA and look what happens. (Skal Labissiere SAC is another good example.) If these guys had been drafted instead of going to college first they would have all began their development a year earlier.

Now that the new CBA raises the NBDL player salaries to $75,000 per year hopefully more players will start to consider the NBDL instead of college. Instead of playing for Iowa State, how about playing for the Iowa Barnstormers D-League team instead? The NBDL lets players learn the NBA game on NBA courts with NBA rules, includes more drills and practice time, more games, more minutes, plus working full time with NBA/NBDL training staff to learn how to eat right, work out and improve their bodies. And they get $75K and per diem travel expenses instead of 1-2 years of being broke while getting the crappy/minimal education universities offer their (student) athletes.

The 1 and done is bad enough without making it 2 - my vote is to go back to 18 years old.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#46 » by kukenotas » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:28 pm

Last years ncaa champs- only one player drafted to nba and he sits on a bech- kids need go back to school.

Kobe first year in la sat on a bench playing a few min a game.

Now look at ingram- skinny not fully matured kid- will gain 20lbs muscles in 2.5 months( like chicken gets adult in 3 days on hormons) and mostly upper body muscles, then next year adds another 25 lbs, and then if player doesnt break adds Last 10-15 lbs.
Perfect examples AD full pf injuries, (embiids before and after pictures),
And many others. And we are surprised how many stars are injured.
Raise d league with more $,
Nba allowed no younger than 2 years after high school kids. Endorsments allowed, but all has to be expired when athlete declares for nba draft.
Or Kids righ after the high school can be drafted only in a second round, and has to spend 2 years on d league for certain amount of $. Then after 2 years would be eligible for 3 years devided by tears1,2,3.

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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#47 » by DanTown8587 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:37 pm

If only there was a billion dollar basketball league that could kill two terrible birds with one stone (the AAU and NCAA circuits) and sign basketball players to even small wages like 50-100K at age 16 and develop them that way.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#48 » by PDX MM » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:43 pm

BW32 wrote:I'm generally against forcing people to do something they don't want to do, if the kid wants to go straight for the NBA nobody forces anyone to draft him.


While this is true there is a fear of missing out or getting it wrong. Potential an 17 or 18 year old kid has is often times to tempting to pass up and can you imagine the rage a GM or team would get if they got it wrong and passed on a kid because he only had 1 year of college than 2 who then becomes the next super player of the league?

As for changing this rule I could see the owners going for this however I am not sure if this is really that much of an issue for teams. I mean if it was a problem and owners wanted it changed I don't think they would get any resistance from the players union.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#49 » by Frank Dux » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:43 pm

you're asking young men to wait another year and risk injury so they can make the NCAA and major universities a lot of money. Many of these players come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Some of these guys are even sending their families their college stipend.

I can't support the idea of giving the NCAA more power and more money, and taking away the choice of a grown man who has the ability to earn himself a paycheck with his talents.

Guys like Ball and Fultz don't need to spend any more time lighting up college scrubs. They need to get reps against their own talent level.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#50 » by bs_and_cs » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:03 am

NBA should do like the MLB.

These are the MLB draft entry rules on who can enter each draft:
High school players, if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college or junior college;
College players, from four-year colleges who have either completed their junior or senior years or are at least 21 years old; and
Junior college players, regardless of how many years of school they have completed


The MLB draft is a bit different in there are like 60 rounds. But teams draft guys and then if they don't sign they aren't eligible again til they hit the next window.

NBA could do the same. The best of the best who are ready can enter the draft right away. If you aren't ready you go to school for 2 years and then can enter the draft any time after that again. I think that is a lot better policy than making guys who have no interest in taking any classes go to school to play for a year.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#51 » by Neutral 123 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:07 am

No, change it to 10.
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#52 » by Neutral 123 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:08 am

Frank Dux wrote:you're asking young men to wait another year and risk injury so they can make the NCAA and major universities a lot of money. Many of these players come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Some of these guys are even sending their families their college stipend.

I can't support the idea of giving the NCAA more power and more money, and taking away the choice of a grown man who has the ability to earn himself a paycheck with his talents.

Guys like Ball and Fultz don't need to spend any more time lighting up college scrubs. They need to get reps against their own talent level.
Yeah but America is a Communist country. We must remember that.
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#53 » by Black Jack » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:10 am

pcbothwel wrote:
Ripp wrote:The NCAA cabal already is exploiting athletes enough, no reason to allow them to extract more undeserved revenue from them


See, I dont think it does. You make the rule that if you go to college, you will not be eligible to be drafted until after your sophomore year. This still allows players to go to the D-League, Europe, or straight out of highschool. To me, this will make the D-League far more interesting, allow generational talents to leave after highschool, and college basketball to be higher quality in regards to team defense, ball movement, etc.


Someone should make a rule that you don't get paid for your job, you get room and board and some basketweaving classes. Also, you must practice every day and you can't work anywhere else because our cartel controls all the competing companies. I bet the product would improve!
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#54 » by Neutral 123 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:11 am

Z Cabarkapa wrote:We don't even have to talk about the Lebron/Durant/Davis/Townes level players here to justify getting rid of the 1 and done, let alone doubling down on stupid and making it '2 and done'. Does anyone honestly think Jamal Murray would have improved more in a mandatory second season at Kentucky than he did this season with the Nuggets? I guarantee you that the DEN brass would much rather have Murray/Jokic under their own training and care than going to college classes right now!

All of the "these kids need to stay in school" folks are grossly misinformed. There's simply no way 30 college games (40 min games instead of 48 min, plus fewer possessions with 30 sec shot clock, 5 fouls, horrible refs, shorter 3pt line, etc) develop a young player better than an 82 game season with an NBA team. Young bigs like Myles Turner (TEX) and DeAndre Jordan (A&M) wasted their time in college - neither one started and the refs still made sure they were fouling out of games, sometimes in under 10 minutes! Then they show up to the NBA and look what happens. (Skal Labissiere SAC is another good example.) If these guys had been drafted instead of going to college first they would have all began their development a year earlier.

Now that the new CBA raises the NBDL player salaries to $75,000 per year hopefully more players will start to consider the NBDL instead of college. Instead of playing for Iowa State, how about playing for the Iowa Barnstormers D-League team instead? The NBDL lets players learn the NBA game on NBA courts with NBA rules, includes more drills and practice time, more games, more minutes, plus working full time with NBA/NBDL training staff to learn how to eat right, work out and improve their bodies. And they get $75K and per diem travel expenses instead of 1-2 years of being broke while getting the crappy/minimal education universities offer their (student) athletes.

The 1 and done is bad enough without making it 2 - my vote is to go back to 18 years old.
Agreed. The NCAA is a criminal organization as far as I am concerned.
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#55 » by ono » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:21 am

I'm generally against making someone stay in college if they're NBA ready just for the sake of it. What if they pick up an injury which dooms their career and prevents them from earning? That said, would guys like Ingram be further on in terms of development if they stayed an extra year? I mean he is only just really starting to show moments of quality in what has been a disappointment of a season (he still has great potential).

It's difficult to gauge because every single player is different. I think declaring for the NBA after one year is something that is done to create a certain impression on the ability of the player. I mean I've seen derogatory comments aimed at Brogdon's ceiling purely based on the fact that he stayed in college.

I know guys like Lillard and Curry did it and still became stars but it feels like the profile of Simmons, Ingram, Fultz, Smith, Ball, Jackson, Tatum etc is so huge that next year's freshmen will follow suit. Even Harry Giles will probably go top 15 purely based on what he did in high school. He could really use an injury free year in college to develop but then he runs the risk of ruining his earning potential by gaining another injury. So it's total cache 22.

I'm not sure how you fix it. Maybe only allow freshman to declare for the draft if they play a specified total number of minutes. Or hit a specified benchmark in relation to performance, but I'm not sure how you quantify that and stop players from stat chasing.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#56 » by MrBaynes » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:37 am

I would be in favor of instituting a MLB style system, where you can come out after high school but if you go to college (or any other international league) you need to stay for X amount of years (that I am sure would be negotiated, but I like 2 years personally). If you have confidence in your ability to be drafted out of high school, then by all means go for it. But if you need seasoning and experience, actually get some seasoning and experience.

I also am a big proponent of utilizing the minor league system more, like baseball does. I truly believe some players would do better working full-time in the D-League instead of sitting on a bench and playing 3 minutes per game occasionally. In Denver for example, I think Malik Beasley has a good future, but I think he could learn more and improve playing a full 50 game season in the D-League playing starter minutes, compared to playing 10 games in the D-League and 3 minutes per game in about 20 games for the Nuggets. There is some type of stigma in playing in the D-League for young players, that there is not in MLB. Young prospects basically always begin their careers in the Minors in baseball, I don't see why it should be tremendously different in the NBA.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#57 » by Ballerhogger » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:40 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:Absolutely not. IMO, they should change it and allow people to enter the draft once they turn 18.

I dont see that working out well at all. Thats worst than and one and done rule. Quit high school so maybe you can be the next Kobe, KG.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#58 » by kodo » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:47 am

The NBA barred drafting college kids because it was too difficult to properly scout them while basically only playing against children (ie High School), not because it was in the prospect's best interests.

The Lebron's of the world will still be Lebron if he enters the NBA at 18 or 19.

But on the flipside, there are many disastrous scouting reports of HS stars when they even play against college talent.

ESPN is reporting that Winter Park senior guard Austin Rivers, the nation's top high school prospect for the class of 2011, has committed to Duke.


Well, Rivals.com also released their updated rankings and they, too, have a new name at the top of the Rivals Top150.

Taking over the top spot from Michael Gilchrist is Austin Rivers, a 6-3 guard from Winter Park (Fla.) High School and the son of Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers. (See video of Rivers' skills at the bottom of this blog post)

"Rivers has the size and athleticism you love to see in a combo guard," Rivals' recruiting expert Jerry Meyer said of Austin."He is one of those guys who is guaranteed to produce offensively and also has the tools to be a high level defender."

Following Rivers in point guard Marquis Teague, Gilchrist, forward LeBryan Nash and forward Quincy Miller.


The NBA commonly drafting HS kids would make the entire draft order a giant joke. Scouting relies on data...you get no usable data when comparing how NBA caliber players play against High School children.

Every draft would become 01, with Kwame Brown & Eddy Curry's being drafted all the time.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#59 » by Ballerhogger » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:47 am

Frank Dux wrote:you're asking young men to wait another year and risk injury so they can make the NCAA and major universities a lot of money. Many of these players come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Some of these guys are even sending their families their college stipend.

I can't support the idea of giving the NCAA more power and more money, and taking away the choice of a grown man who has the ability to earn himself a paycheck with his talents.

Guys like Ball and Fultz don't need to spend any more time lighting up college scrubs. They need to get reps against their own talent level.

Maybe NCAA can enforce some bussiness mangment classes, basic life skills classes.... at thie players level. A small ban aid but 2 year requirment or go to the nba draft. Cant give much choice than that.
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Re: Should One-and-Done Be Changed to Two Years? 

Post#60 » by Knickstape1214 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:59 am

Ballerhogger wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Absolutely not. IMO, they should change it and allow people to enter the draft once they turn 18.

I dont see that working out well at all. Thats worst than and one and done rule. Quit high school so maybe you can be the next Kobe, KG.

Ok, and I disagree and see no way that it's worse than the one and done rule. College can be argued as an impediment to their development because of school requirements (however relaxed they may be) and fitting into the system (like how AD, KAT, Booker all showed more skills once entering the league). These teams are scouting players in high school anyway, so the lack of scouting argument is moot.

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