RealGM

shawn_hemp wrote:
Paul George - breaks leg for Team USA. Never seemed to be the same player as before. Maybe he's just checked out of Indy idk

I feel like this is just a misconception because the Pacers are not very good anymore. Paul George has actually looked like a better player than before his injury.

Though, he does coast a lot more than he ever did before. That could be because he is checked out, who knows. When he is dialed in though, he is much better than he ever was before the injury though.

shangrila wrote:Fizdale? Seriously?

OP clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

Yeah, Cause the previous coach who got fired wasnt doing this or better?

get outta here, Mike Conley -Marc Gasol, Tony Allen Z-Bo, they are what they are

hes not great, id give him the benefit of the doubt, but he was only an honorable mention

The_Hater wrote:

JudBuchler wrote:In your honest opinion?

1. Alvin Gentry , This guy has had Anthony Davis and all start caliber PG jrue holiday , even now with Cousins the team is garbage and has been all of gentrys tenure there.

2. Nate Mcmillan , A talented roster from top to bottom, yet every time they play it looks a mess, they have a very pedestrian record. this guy is not a good coach

3. Doc Rivers , Hes made the clippers a bad team, this was a perenial top 3 team in the league and ever since hes been there its been downhill and choking. the guy is a pure idiot head coach, an even worse GM

4. Tyron Lue, he won with Lebron - Irving And Love all healthy and playing, the cavs are playing terrible basketball right now, If it was anyone else theyd be axed but its Lebrons Buddy and someone Lebron can bully

5. Earl Watson, Pheonix suns are not progressing at all, extremely talented young players but no movement or progression at all.


Honarable mention - Coach for Orlando (Although i suspect tanking ) Fizdale in memphis , Coach for Charlotte , Stan van gundy (Although that roster reeks)

The 'coach for Charlotte', who's name it would have taken you 5 seconds to google (Steve Clifford) is one of the best coaches on the league. Sounds like you know a lot about him. SVG is a terrible GM but an elite coach. And Fizdale has been nothing short of incredible this season winning game with d league players. He's awesome and deserves some COY votes.

And I'm not sure how you missed Fred Hoiberg who would be on everyone's 'worst coach' list.

Steve Clifford one of the best coaches in the league according to you, Is getting destroyed by Jason Kidd and the young bucks at charlotte 88-62 midway through the 3rd

Great coach he is

meanwhile every coach on my top 5 and even honorable mentions has performed to expectations the pat week

Doc and the clips freefalling, lose to sacramento kings up 15 with 5 minutes left..

Indiana is always in a struggle they are never looking good..Nate sucks

Fizdale loses to sacramento

The Bad coach Jason kidd is throwing a demolation on the so called good coach steve clifford in charlotte....

Gentry continues to suck

these coaches are all garbage

Kidd and Hoiberg dont deserve a spot in the top 5 worst coaches, those coaches all take the cake

to me McMillan , Gentry and Doc all are the 3 headed monster of bad coaches throw in Lue as well. they are the opposites of Popovich , Stevens , Buddholzer , Kerr

The_Hater wrote:

JudBuchler wrote:In your honest opinion?

1. Alvin Gentry , This guy has had Anthony Davis and all start caliber PG jrue holiday , even now with Cousins the team is garbage and has been all of gentrys tenure there.

2. Nate Mcmillan , A talented roster from top to bottom, yet every time they play it looks a mess, they have a very pedestrian record. this guy is not a good coach

3. Doc Rivers , Hes made the clippers a bad team, this was a perenial top 3 team in the league and ever since hes been there its been downhill and choking. the guy is a pure idiot head coach, an even worse GM

4. Tyron Lue, he won with Lebron - Irving And Love all healthy and playing, the cavs are playing terrible basketball right now, If it was anyone else theyd be axed but its Lebrons Buddy and someone Lebron can bully

5. Earl Watson, Pheonix suns are not progressing at all, extremely talented young players but no movement or progression at all.


Honarable mention - Coach for Orlando (Although i suspect tanking ) Fizdale in memphis , Coach for Charlotte , Stan van gundy (Although that roster reeks)

The 'coach for Charlotte', who's name it would have taken you 5 seconds to google (Steve Clifford) is one of the best coaches on the league. Sounds like you know a lot about him. SVG is a terrible GM but an elite coach. And Fizdale has been nothing short of incredible this season winning game with d league players. He's awesome and deserves some COY votes.

And I'm not sure how you missed Fred Hoiberg who would be on everyone's 'worst coach' list.

Please name one bad move (outside of passing on Booker) that SVG the President of Basketball Ops have made. He's been a much better executive than he has coach this year.

JudBuchler wrote:

The_Hater wrote:

JudBuchler wrote:In your honest opinion?

1. Alvin Gentry , This guy has had Anthony Davis and all start caliber PG jrue holiday , even now with Cousins the team is garbage and has been all of gentrys tenure there.

2. Nate Mcmillan , A talented roster from top to bottom, yet every time they play it looks a mess, they have a very pedestrian record. this guy is not a good coach

3. Doc Rivers , Hes made the clippers a bad team, this was a perenial top 3 team in the league and ever since hes been there its been downhill and choking. the guy is a pure idiot head coach, an even worse GM

4. Tyron Lue, he won with Lebron - Irving And Love all healthy and playing, the cavs are playing terrible basketball right now, If it was anyone else theyd be axed but its Lebrons Buddy and someone Lebron can bully

5. Earl Watson, Pheonix suns are not progressing at all, extremely talented young players but no movement or progression at all.


Honarable mention - Coach for Orlando (Although i suspect tanking ) Fizdale in memphis , Coach for Charlotte , Stan van gundy (Although that roster reeks)

The 'coach for Charlotte', who's name it would have taken you 5 seconds to google (Steve Clifford) is one of the best coaches on the league. Sounds like you know a lot about him. SVG is a terrible GM but an elite coach. And Fizdale has been nothing short of incredible this season winning game with d league players. He's awesome and deserves some COY votes.

And I'm not sure how you missed Fred Hoiberg who would be on everyone's 'worst coach' list.

Steve Clifford one of the best coaches in the league according to you, Is getting destroyed by Jason Kidd and the young bucks at charlotte 88-62 midway through the 3rd

Great coach he is

He was #3 on this list from October and there are several more out there like this one.

He's highly respected around the league by most people who know a little something but first you have to learn the name of the coach.

http://hoopshype.com/2016/10/26/ranking-the-nba-head-coaches-10-1/

DTP wrote:

The_Hater wrote:

JudBuchler wrote:In your honest opinion?

1. Alvin Gentry , This guy has had Anthony Davis and all start caliber PG jrue holiday , even now with Cousins the team is garbage and has been all of gentrys tenure there.

2. Nate Mcmillan , A talented roster from top to bottom, yet every time they play it looks a mess, they have a very pedestrian record. this guy is not a good coach

3. Doc Rivers , Hes made the clippers a bad team, this was a perenial top 3 team in the league and ever since hes been there its been downhill and choking. the guy is a pure idiot head coach, an even worse GM

4. Tyron Lue, he won with Lebron - Irving And Love all healthy and playing, the cavs are playing terrible basketball right now, If it was anyone else theyd be axed but its Lebrons Buddy and someone Lebron can bully

5. Earl Watson, Pheonix suns are not progressing at all, extremely talented young players but no movement or progression at all.


Honarable mention - Coach for Orlando (Although i suspect tanking ) Fizdale in memphis , Coach for Charlotte , Stan van gundy (Although that roster reeks)

The 'coach for Charlotte', who's name it would have taken you 5 seconds to google (Steve Clifford) is one of the best coaches on the league. Sounds like you know a lot about him. SVG is a terrible GM but an elite coach. And Fizdale has been nothing short of incredible this season winning game with d league players. He's awesome and deserves some COY votes.

And I'm not sure how you missed Fred Hoiberg who would be on everyone's 'worst coach' list.

Please name one bad move (outside of passing on Booker) that SVG the President of Basketball Ops have made. He's been a much better executive than he has coach this year.

Drafting Johnson wasn't a minor mistake.

Giving Jackson and Drummond huge contracts that both now look really bad.

Letting Monroe walk instead of trading him while he still could.

Giving back up Centers big contracts in back to back seasons.

He's capped out the Pistons with one of the 5 highest payrolls in the league and they're going to miss the playoffs with that roster.

That said, I might have been harsh by calling him a terrible GM but he's not great by any stretch.

The_Hater wrote:

DTP wrote:

The_Hater wrote:
The 'coach for Charlotte', who's name it would have taken you 5 seconds to google (Steve Clifford) is one of the best coaches on the league. Sounds like you know a lot about him. SVG is a terrible GM but an elite coach. And Fizdale has been nothing short of incredible this season winning game with d league players. He's awesome and deserves some COY votes.

And I'm not sure how you missed Fred Hoiberg who would be on everyone's 'worst coach' list.

Please name one bad move (outside of passing on Booker) that SVG the President of Basketball Ops have made. He's been a much better executive than he has coach this year.

Drafting Johnson wasn't a minor mistake.

Giving Jackson and Drummond huge contracts that both now look really bad.

Letting Monroe walk instead of trading him while he still could.

Giving back up Centers big contracts in back to back seasons.

He's capped out the Pistons with one of the 5 highest payrolls in the league and they're going to miss the playoffs with that roster.

That said, I might have been harsh by calling him a terrible GM but he's not great by any stretch.

You mean the Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond that led them to the post season last season? Please....pleaaaaaaase, I beg you to give me one GM in the same position that wouldn't do the same thing? The contracts to Baynes & Boban are small...especially in this highly inflated salary era. Both are huge bodies who can rebound and hit free throws....such bad contracts.

The team has drastically underperformed this year...no one is arguing that but its personnel moves has been one of the smallest factors. As I said, he's been a much worse coach this year. For some reason the team just hasnt responded to him as a coach this year.

DTP wrote:

The_Hater wrote:

DTP wrote:
Please name one bad move (outside of passing on Booker) that SVG the President of Basketball Ops have made. He's been a much better executive than he has coach this year.

Drafting Johnson wasn't a minor mistake.

Giving Jackson and Drummond huge contracts that both now look really bad.

Letting Monroe walk instead of trading him while he still could.

Giving back up Centers big contracts in back to back seasons.

He's capped out the Pistons with one of the 5 highest payrolls in the league and they're going to miss the playoffs with that roster.

That said, I might have been harsh by calling him a terrible GM but he's not great by any stretch.

You mean the Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond that led them to the post season last season? Please....pleaaaaaaase, I beg you to give me one GM in the same position that wouldn't do the same thing? The contracts to Baynes & Boban are small...especially in this highly inflated salary era. Both are huge bodies who can rebound and hit free throws....such bad contracts.

The team has drastically underperformed this year...no one is arguing that but its personnel moves has been one of the smallest factors. As I said, he's been a much worse coach this year. For some reason the team just hasnt responded to him as a coach this year.

Be defensive about the greatness of Jackson, Drummond and GM SVG all you want but you're missing the playoffs this season with a top 5 payroll with no room to add anyone in th summer. Sorry.

JudBuchler wrote:Yeah, Cause the previous coach who got fired wasnt doing this or better?

Uh, Joerger is a pretty good coach himself. What's your point?

get outta here, Mike Conley -Marc Gasol, Tony Allen Z-Bo, they are what they are

What does this have to do with the coach? You think anyone could coach them to this record?

hes not great, id give him the benefit of the doubt, but he was only an honorable mention

The fact he's on the list at all is bad enough but your entire post is dripping with ignorance.

Rivers isn't a terrible coach, for example, he's a terrible GM. There's a difference. Gentry isn't a good coach but that Pelicans team is horrible outside of Holiday, Davis and now Cousins. They're starting Solomon Hill, 'nuff said. McMillan was the wrong man for the job from the start, he never fit what FO wanted from the roster. Lue has injuries all over the place, but maybe he is terrible. Too hard to tell. And Watson? As someone already said, if you don't think the Suns are progressing you're (obviously) not watching them.

You've put Frank Vogel (the coach for Orlando, if googling his name is too hard) on there, despite what he did during his Indiana days and the crapshow that is the Orlando roster. You've even got Stan on there when YOU YOURSELF say it has more to do with the roster. You missed Hoiberg, an obvious choice, Kidd and a handful for others that always get mentioned when this topic comes up every other month. There's just no rhyme or reason to your selections.

So yeah, I think your original post was terrible and shows how little you know or bothered to look into the topic you wanted to discuss.

The_Hater wrote:

Green89 wrote:

DarkHawk wrote:
He supported his players in that postgame interview. How does that negatively reflect his entire season?

Reggie Miller scored 8 points in 9 seconds. Crazy thing can happen.
Even if Watson decided to pull the plug, he still scored 60+. That doesn't excuse Boston's defense. The Suns sored 43 points playing team ball in the first half. Booker, almost single handedly, brought the team back.

The dude's won 31 games as a head coach, and lost 76, and challenged people to a fight in a post game interview. There's nothing positive about his coaching career yet.

This is the lower end version of the 'Stevens hasn't won a playoff series yet so he sucks' argument that some people use.

Using Won-Lost records to judge the coach of a young team that is clearly rebuilding is narrow minded.

You can measure progression, and as others have pointed out in this thread, he has made no progression. .273 win percentage last season and a .293 win percentage this season. He's basically done nothing. Bad team or not, he hasn't shown much of anything to improve them.

Admittedly, I haven't read through each page, but I think some of you are misdiagnosing the potential effectiveness of a coach. A good coach won't necessarily coach a team to a great record, just like a bad coach won't necessarily coach a team to a poor record. It may happen more often than not, but there are many other variables at play that truly impact the overall record.


I think some of the indicators to look for from a bad coach are things like:

- Poor execution/play coming out of a timeout. Especially in regards to in-bound plays. If the players look lost/confused on the court coming out of a timeout, it's the coaches fault.

- Decreasing player intensity throughout a game/season. Doesn't matter if the coach remains intense. The coach needs to keep the players active and intensely focused as they tire during the course of a game/season. The Bulls this season are a nice example.

- When on offense, right after a timeout, rushing to sub in a player before the start of play (not before the timeout). How is a coach discussing strategy in the timeout, and then afterwards all of the sudden sub in a player who may not have been fully focused on the discussion during the timeout? What was the coach talking about during the timeout? What a confusing mess.

- Forgetting about players on the bench. Having starters/regulars go long stretches of time on the bench with no rhyme or reason, or explanation.

- Team wide poor free throw shooting. At a certain point one has to question if the coach even tries to have players improve.


There are more indicators, but those are some of the easiest to spot I think. If these issues are occurring, at the very least, it would appear to me that the coach is overwhelmed.


I'll come back with a list when I have more time, but Fred Hoiberg will be at the top of it. And any list that is drastically different I would think is looking at the wrong indicators.

1. Doc Rivers
2. Glenn Rivers
3. Glenn Anton "Doc" Rivers
4. Austin Rivers' father
5. Doc R.

Lets look again

Doc Rivers, the idiot, loses at home to utah without Gobert(there best player) ....Congrats idiot Doc

Nate McMillan Loses, the Idiot Nate had a chance because Cleveland is coach by another coach on this list, the idiot Tyron Lue

The honorable mention coach on my list Fizdale lost by 30+ , The idiot even jumped out to a 15+ point lead in the 1st.

The other coaches didnt even make the playoffs

Another thing in this thread i wanted to point out, Is im getting killed for my list for putting Fizdale and others as well

And people wanted Jason Kidd on the list as well as Hoiberg

Jason kidd looks like a great coach compared to some of these clowns you were crying about on my list , (fizdale and the charlotte coach )

Bottom line is these coaches all will make the games intresting and bad for there fans

1. Lue
2. Doc
3. Kerr
4. Watson
5. Casey

Warriors07 wrote:1. Lue
2. Doc
3. Kerr
4. Watson
5. Casey

Kerr's winning percentage at 84% is not only the best of all time, it's a full 14% higher than the next coach on the list of winningest coaches ever.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/NBA_stats.html

Nobody is worse than Doc Rivers.

righterwriter wrote:

Warriors07 wrote:1. Lue
2. Doc
3. Kerr
4. Watson
5. Casey

Kerr's winning percentage at 84% is not only the best of all time, it's a full 14% higher than the next coach on the list of winningest coaches ever.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/NBA_stats.html

He must be a Mark Jackson fan.

joerger
brett brown
atkinson
clifford

still thinking of a 5th