The Warriors are better without KD

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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#101 » by Flash Falcon X » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:17 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Hey ...different question....want your takes.

Would the Warriors be dramatically better replacing Durant with Anthony Davis?

My theory is that the Warriors would be dramatically better because the team would have the same core 73 win pieces but they would majorly upgrade the center spot and have a perfectly balanced team.

Same question on Warriors board was met with mixed responses....Thoughts?


We already have JaVale McGee who is better than Anthony Davis.


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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#102 » by ProfessorJM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 pm

Ndugu Kamala wrote:
dynamic duo wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
So where would you have liked Durant to go? Because I'm sure whatever team you suggest, another poster, who feels that their team is more inferior than yours, will also claim that Durant's move was the weakest move ever made competitive wise."

And the NBA's profit margin, will continue to say otherwise.


any team not named warriors and i don't think there would have been any problems with majority of fans. but he decided to join the best regular season of all time who were minute away from winning another title with back to back mvp the last one being the first unanimous mvp in league history.


There is not a problem with the majority of fans now. And the proof is in the NBA ratings. Share your evidence that the majority of fans have a problem with KD's move.


NBA ratings don't equate to how a fan feels about a player and/or the move they made. If anything a hated team (Patriots, Cowboys, Yankees and such) or player can generate stronger ratings precisely because of dislike, etc.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#103 » by michaelm » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:29 pm

dynamic duo wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
dynamic duo wrote:
any team not named warriors and i don't think there would have been any problems with majority of fans. but he decided to join the best regular season of all time who were minute away from winning another title with back to back mvp the last one being the first unanimous mvp in league history.


There is not a problem with the majority of fans now. And the proof is in the NBA ratings. Share your evidence that the majority of fans have a problem with KD's move.


you keep bringing up ratings as a proof that kd's move to gsw wasn't weak. people like to watch villains, superteams etc. still the weakest move ever made by a star/superstar competitive wise.

"this was the hardest road because I don't know anybody here," durant said.

please.

“if I walk outside somebody might just hit me with their car, or say anything negative to me,” durant said.

i wonder why kd

What is really weak is people who quite likely have no talent to speak of themselves having nothing better to do than post obsessively about Kevin Durant being "weak" on the RealGM General Board.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#104 » by jeeph » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:32 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
SimonFish wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:
Durant is not the Thunder's best player--Westbrook is.

In addition, neither the Cavs nor the Spurs have the luxury of having another top 3 type player on the roster to ameliorate for the loss of a star player.

But in any case, in a series against an elite team, the Thunder are better with Durant. The players don't know their roles as well and they curiously don't defend as well when he's in there, but against elite teams in a 7 game series, they're better with KD.

ftfy - m i doing it right?


I thought Durant was the Thinder's best player although it was a bit of a toss up that final year.

If you ask all NBA head coaches and all NBA GMs this question: "When facing the Warriors, if you had the power to force one player to sit, whom would you take out of the game?" I'm willing to bet that over 75% of all coaches and GMs would choose to take out Curry.


Wrong. The correct answer would be Green. Without him half of their playoff rotations are scrapped. Curry is better, Green is more important to the team. Same with the Cavs with TT, Kyrie is better, TT is more important to the team.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#105 » by LeBron_da_Don » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:36 pm

So are the Thunder. Just ask Russ.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#106 » by miman15 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:41 pm

TheBullsDynasty wrote:There's one tiny detail that everyone seems to be forgetting. Thanks to Barnes last year, Cavs were able to put Lebron on Curry on both offense and defense.

Now that they have Durant, Lebron will need to defend Durant instead of Curry because Love and TT won't ve able to defend him for sure.


Who needs Lebron when you have K. Love AKA "Curry Stopper"?

Have you forgot "the Stop" in last years Game 7? :lol:
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#107 » by Coxy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:41 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Hey ...different question....want your takes.

Would the Warriors be dramatically better replacing Durant with Anthony Davis?

My theory is that the Warriors would be dramatically better because the team would have the same core 73 win pieces but they would majorly upgrade the center spot and have a perfectly balanced team.

Same question on Warriors board was met with mixed responses....Thoughts?


That's really a no brainer, the Warriors add Ant Davis easily over KD. However, you can't predict chemistry among teammates. The 1 thing that worked with KD, is his humbleness and friendship with the core guys on Golden State. Is Davis friends with Steph, Iggy, Dray and Klay? Not sure. I'm a huge believer in chemistry, and what the Warriors have now is extremely rare. Not sure we'd have that with another star player.

The 1 guy I take without question over both KD and Davis is Gobert. He fits so amazingly well next to our original core it's ridiculous.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#108 » by dynamic duo » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:42 pm

michaelm wrote:
dynamic duo wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
There is not a problem with the majority of fans now. And the proof is in the NBA ratings. Share your evidence that the majority of fans have a problem with KD's move.


you keep bringing up ratings as a proof that kd's move to gsw wasn't weak. people like to watch villains, superteams etc. still the weakest move ever made by a star/superstar competitive wise.

"this was the hardest road because I don't know anybody here," durant said.

please.

“if I walk outside somebody might just hit me with their car, or say anything negative to me,” durant said.

i wonder why kd

What is really weak is people who likely have no talent to speak of themselves having nothing better to do than post obsessively about him being "weak" on the real gm general board.


what is really weak is people who likely have no talent to speak of themselves having nothing better to do than defend kd obsessively on the real gm general board when it clearly was the weakest move ever made by a star/superstar in nba history.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#109 » by Ndugu Kamala » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:46 pm

ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
dynamic duo wrote:
any team not named warriors and i don't think there would have been any problems with majority of fans. but he decided to join the best regular season of all time who were minute away from winning another title with back to back mvp the last one being the first unanimous mvp in league history.


There is not a problem with the majority of fans now. And the proof is in the NBA ratings. Share your evidence that the majority of fans have a problem with KD's move.


NBA ratings don't equate to how a fan feels about a player and/or the move they made. If anything a hated team (Patriots, Cowboys, Yankees and such) or player can generate stronger ratings precisely because of dislike, etc.


So keep the hate flowing so the Warriors can benefit further.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#110 » by Ndugu Kamala » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:48 pm

dynamic duo wrote:
michaelm wrote:
dynamic duo wrote:
you keep bringing up ratings as a proof that kd's move to gsw wasn't weak. people like to watch villains, superteams etc. still the weakest move ever made by a star/superstar competitive wise.

"this was the hardest road because I don't know anybody here," durant said.

please.

“if I walk outside somebody might just hit me with their car, or say anything negative to me,” durant said.

i wonder why kd

What is really weak is people who likely have no talent to speak of themselves having nothing better to do than post obsessively about him being "weak" on the real gm general board.


what is really weak is people who likely have no talent to speak of themselves having nothing better to do than defend kd obsessively on the real gm general board when it clearly was the weakest move ever made by a star/superstar in nba history.


Nah. We just like to call you out for stating your opinions as facts and having nothing to back up as evidence. The NBA's history is long.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#111 » by michaelm » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:57 pm

dynamic duo wrote:
michaelm wrote:
dynamic duo wrote:
you keep bringing up ratings as a proof that kd's move to gsw wasn't weak. people like to watch villains, superteams etc. still the weakest move ever made by a star/superstar competitive wise.

"this was the hardest road because I don't know anybody here," durant said.

please.

“if I walk outside somebody might just hit me with their car, or say anything negative to me,” durant said.

i wonder why kd

What is really weak is people who likely have no talent to speak of themselves having nothing better to do than post obsessively about him being "weak" on the real gm general board.


what is really weak is people who likely have no talent to speak of themselves having nothing better to do than defend kd obsessively on the real gm general board when it clearly was the weakest move ever made by a star/superstar in nba history.

Far from being cut to the quick by your excoriating wit, it actually amuses me to reply to nonsensical arguments.

I don't have a problem with any free agent move ever, why would anyone?, I understood that was why they were called free agents. Unless KD signed a side agreement which bound him to your whim after he had served out his second contract with Seattle/OKC, what you think doesn't really have much to do with anything. My only problem with KD is that he himself seems to care about such nonsensical opinions to some degree.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#112 » by ProfessorJM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:26 pm

Ndugu Kamala wrote:
ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
There is not a problem with the majority of fans now. And the proof is in the NBA ratings. Share your evidence that the majority of fans have a problem with KD's move.


NBA ratings don't equate to how a fan feels about a player and/or the move they made. If anything a hated team (Patriots, Cowboys, Yankees and such) or player can generate stronger ratings precisely because of dislike, etc.


So keep the hate flowing so the Warriors can benefit further.


Well that's fine and I think it's good for teams to be hated for ratings personally, but my post was specifically pointing out that your premise that ratings are proof of a majority of fans not having a problem as very false. No more, no less. I just want better discussion about this kind of issue rather than conclusions based on false evidence.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#113 » by DubTheVanDamage » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:20 pm

ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
ProfessorJM wrote:
NBA ratings don't equate to how a fan feels about a player and/or the move they made. If anything a hated team (Patriots, Cowboys, Yankees and such) or player can generate stronger ratings precisely because of dislike, etc.


So keep the hate flowing so the Warriors can benefit further.


Well that's fine and I think it's good for teams to be hated for ratings personally, but my post was specifically pointing out that your premise that ratings are proof of a majority of fans not having a problem as very false. No more, no less. I just want better discussion about this kind of issue rather than conclusions based on false evidence.


I'm sorry, but just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so.

Fans, especially casual ones, tend to be front runners. When the Yankees were winning, they were massively popular, not just in the US but abroad. Same with the Cowboys, the Patriots and, yes, the Warriors. The team with the top selling baseball merchandise is the Cubs. For the NBA, the Warriors. In the NFL, the top 3 jerseys are Tom Brady, Ezekiel Elliott and Dez Bryant, in that order.

If you want a 'better discussion', show some evidence, rather than your wishful opinion or anecdotal evidence based on RealGM.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#114 » by Ndugu Kamala » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:54 pm

ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
ProfessorJM wrote:
NBA ratings don't equate to how a fan feels about a player and/or the move they made. If anything a hated team (Patriots, Cowboys, Yankees and such) or player can generate stronger ratings precisely because of dislike, etc.


So keep the hate flowing so the Warriors can benefit further.


Well that's fine and I think it's good for teams to be hated for ratings personally, but my post was specifically pointing out that your premise that ratings are proof of a majority of fans not having a problem as very false. No more, no less. I just want better discussion about this kind of issue rather than conclusions based on false evidence.


So having the highest tv ratings and top jersey sales is not evidence that fans don't have a problem with the moves the Warriors made. Then provide real evidence. Not your opinion. Evidence.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#115 » by ProfessorJM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:01 pm

DubTheVanDamage wrote:
ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
So keep the hate flowing so the Warriors can benefit further.


Well that's fine and I think it's good for teams to be hated for ratings personally, but my post was specifically pointing out that your premise that ratings are proof of a majority of fans not having a problem as very false. No more, no less. I just want better discussion about this kind of issue rather than conclusions based on false evidence.


I'm sorry, but just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so.

Fans, especially casual ones, tend to be front runners. When the Yankees were winning, they were massively popular, not just in the US but abroad. Same with the Cowboys, the Patriots and, yes, the Warriors. The team with the top selling baseball merchandise is the Cubs. For the NBA, the Warriors. In the NFL, the top 3 jerseys are Tom Brady, Ezekiel Elliott and Dez Bryant, in that order.

If you want a 'better discussion', show some evidence, rather than your wishful opinion or anecdotal evidence based on RealGM.


He still hasn't demonstrated proof that the cause of the team (or any team) being popular by either ratings or jersey sales equates to fans not having an issue with Durant specifically. It is a false conclusion. Anything beyond that I have no issue with and I am not even saying a majority of fans DO have an issue with Durant, it is that NBA ratings or team sales/jersey sales are independent of this specific issue. That evidence tells nothing about how fans feel about Durant leaving but only that it specifically says the team is popular, a lot of people watch the team (if NBA ratings for that specifically show this), and that a specific subset of people enjoy buying that jersey or jerseys.

I'm not sure what evidence you are pointing at or asking for -- I am not advocating a positive argument by claiming that ratings or sales means the opposite of what he is saying but pointing out this his evidence is fallible and doesn't prove anything. Hence, it wasn't a very good premise. No more, no less.

I will leave it at that at this point absent a more compelling discussion on the specific point I brought up.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#116 » by ProfessorJM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:03 pm

Ndugu Kamala wrote:
ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
So keep the hate flowing so the Warriors can benefit further.


Well that's fine and I think it's good for teams to be hated for ratings personally, but my post was specifically pointing out that your premise that ratings are proof of a majority of fans not having a problem as very false. No more, no less. I just want better discussion about this kind of issue rather than conclusions based on false evidence.


So having the highest tv ratings and top jersey sales is not evidence that fans don't have a problem with the moves the Warriors made. Then provide real evidence. Not your opinion. Evidence.


I'm not advocating that a majority of fans DO have an issue with Durant -- someone else is making that argument. I just don't want a lazy argument being accepted as a good discussion of a very interesting and real debate discussing the long-term impact of Durant's career on the Warriors going forward and how fans might feel about it in the future.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#117 » by mg » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:29 pm

Personally I thought the Warriors were more fun to watch the past few seasons without KD. Obviously he makes them a more talented team while also taking talent from a competitor.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#118 » by Ndugu Kamala » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:35 pm

ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
ProfessorJM wrote:
Well that's fine and I think it's good for teams to be hated for ratings personally, but my post was specifically pointing out that your premise that ratings are proof of a majority of fans not having a problem as very false. No more, no less. I just want better discussion about this kind of issue rather than conclusions based on false evidence.


So having the highest tv ratings and top jersey sales is not evidence that fans don't have a problem with the moves the Warriors made. Then provide real evidence. Not your opinion. Evidence.


I'm not advocating that a majority of fans DO have an issue with Durant -- someone else is making that argument. I just don't want a lazy argument being accepted as a good discussion of a very interesting and real debate discussing the long-term impact of Durant's career on the Warriors going forward and how fans might feel about it in the future.


Pick your mic back up because we're not done.

My point was based on the ratings, the majority of fans don't have a problem with the Warriors. Ratings indicate popularity or the opposite. It's what determines what tv shows get renewed or cancelled. It may not be the best evidence, according to you, but it gives an indication.

That's not to say there are people that don't hate the Warriors/KD. It's clear on these boards there are. And like you, I want to see proof of their argument.

For someone to say a generalized statement that it's the weakest move in the history of the NBA, I would like something to back up that statement.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#119 » by ProfessorJM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:01 pm

Ndugu Kamala wrote:
ProfessorJM wrote:
Ndugu Kamala wrote:
So having the highest tv ratings and top jersey sales is not evidence that fans don't have a problem with the moves the Warriors made. Then provide real evidence. Not your opinion. Evidence.


I'm not advocating that a majority of fans DO have an issue with Durant -- someone else is making that argument. I just don't want a lazy argument being accepted as a good discussion of a very interesting and real debate discussing the long-term impact of Durant's career on the Warriors going forward and how fans might feel about it in the future.


Pick your mic back up because we're not done.

My point was based on the ratings, the majority of fans don't have a problem with the Warriors. Ratings indicate popularity or the opposite. It's what determines what tv shows get renewed or cancelled. It may not be the best evidence, according to you, but it gives an indication.

That's not to say there are people that don't hate the Warriors/KD. It's clear on these boards there are. And like you, I want to see proof of their argument.

For someone to say a generalized statement that it's the weakest move in the history of the NBA, I would like something to back up that statement.


Out of politeness I will respond one last time. I never said the last sentence ever and yes, you should ask for evidence to back up that kind of claim. My interest in that is whether this statement is actually believed by many fans and if true, whether that fades over time in defining Durant's legacy.

I honestly don't know if/how fans view Durant in a macro sense (the majority of fans) because there isn't strong evidence to me to prove this right now. A lot of it is anecdotal at best. Also will that change over time versus the first year.

I don't buy the ratings telling us anything about fans' subjective opinions about one specific player and especially in this context for this specific situation this year. Also, the ratings were about Durant not the Warriors number one, and number two, even if it was about the Warriors, it's just as easy to believe ratings can be caused by dislike just as much as love. Howard Stern for example (there is evidence for this in prior studies with audience canvassing) got a lot of ratings from people that hated him just as much as diehard fans in his early days. If someone can connect high ratings equaling high love for a team with very little dislike from the fans, I'd love to see that data.

I like watching the Warriors play but not actively rooting for them (no ties to Bay Area that way) and my undergrad is where Durant went to college (UT-Austin) and I am from Texas so I have some interest in how Durant does overall. I believe personally he had a chance to chase becoming a Top 5 player all-time but that because of his move last year he has maybe little chance to do just that (I think Top 10 now max) absent some other compelling narrative. (changes teams, injuries to current roster, etc) Obviously, this is a hypothesis but I feel pretty comfortable this is a more likely than not scenario playing out in the future.

I am curious how the fans perceptions (whether true or not) of Durant might impact his lasting narrative and legacy when its all said and done.
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Re: The Warriors are better without KD 

Post#120 » by Skin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:07 pm

This topic is like saying the sky is blue.

The other obvious thing is that nobody will give credit to KD if they win a championship. He'll just be known as a big leech.
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