How come Westbrook gets bashed so much

Moderators: Dirk, CoreyGallagher, magnumt, ken6199, Yuri Vaultin, BombsquadSammy, Tarik Black, Mr. E, bwgood77, Rhettmatic, Duke4life831, KF10, GimmeDat, Knickstape1214, DayofMourning, Capn'O

Teko
Rookie
Posts: 1,175
And1: 729
Joined: Jul 11, 2003
Contact:
     

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#121 » by Teko » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:03 am

Mostly hated by rocket's and warrior's fans, no?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
spacemonkey
Analyst
Posts: 3,642
And1: 2,938
Joined: Nov 24, 2004
Contact:

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#122 » by spacemonkey » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:05 am

He gets bashed so much because Megan Fox said he was gorgeous and everybody just jelly.
Pennebaker
Pro Prospect
Posts: 793
And1: 476
Joined: Nov 02, 2013

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#123 » by Pennebaker » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:06 am

Because Kevin Durant has A LOT of fans.
mysticOscar
Pro Prospect
Posts: 997
And1: 378
Joined: Jul 05, 2015
 

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#124 » by mysticOscar » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:20 am

nbafan38 wrote:He is the anti-Durant, the anti-Lebron, the true old school loyal passionate machine that everyone claims they long for a player who is willing to put a team on his back the way MJ or Kobe would and yet his roster is much worse than either of their rosters ever were. And yet he gets so much criticism on realgm. I don't get it, it's like you can't have your cake and eat it too, superstars get bashed for forming superteams but then if the team around the star is trash they are expected to defer to teammates much weaker than them?


Because his team is no where near a contender.

His domination of the ball within a team is at unprecedented level.

That would have been fine if ppl can see this team had a chance in the playoffs (infact he would get more credit)...but its not so he gets backlash. So its understandable...high risk high reward by basically trying to do everything in his team.
Impuniti
Starter
Posts: 2,359
And1: 1,680
Joined: Jan 18, 2016

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#125 » by Impuniti » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:39 pm

ono wrote:He's coming down on the other side of the hype hill. On his way up the hype hill, not only were people on his side over the KD saga, but people began obsessing about his triple doubles and the record and the fact that he's exciting and explosive and gritty and snarly, all the while, turning a blind to his flaws and neglecting to analyse the substance behind the statlines.

Now he's on the way down the other side of the hype hill and people are taking a second glance at his statlines and realising things like....

His direct opponents shoot around 10% above their average when Russ is guarding them.

He leads the league in uncontested rebounds and his contested rebound numbers have stayed the same for the last 3-4 years. He is claiming the rebound through the box out work of his team mates so the actual rebound isn't adding any value to the team.

He is statistically the worst player in the league when it comes to contesting shots at the perimeter. He is contesting roughly half the amount of shots as he was last season. Even Cameron Payne was contesting more in half as many minutes. To put it into context, only Hassan Whiteside and Deandre Jordan contest less perimeter shots.

He is visibly leaving his defensive assignment to sag into the paint in search of an uncontested rebound. The vast majority of his uncontested rebounds come from misses from 19+ feet out...in other words, the perimeter...which is where the guard should be...you know....guarding.

He is shooting a ridiculous amount of shots per game and at a poor success rate. Self explanatory. He is averaging far more attempts per game than his MVP rivals.

His usage rate is easily the highest in NBA history. If James Harden had the same usage rate, he would average around 37ppg and 14 assists per game. His rebounding would stay the same but that is purely because the calculation used to determine these figures cannot factor in OKC's strategy which allows Russ to claim 8 uncontested boards per game.

He is very clearly making decisions with the ball based on his box score and not the game score. He passes on open looks to hunt for an assist at points in the game where he doesn't have his 10 assists, yet plays hero ball once he has achieved his assisting totals.

None of this is an attack on Westbrook. He's a great player. He's exciting, he's a generational talent, he has a ridiculous and unique skillset. He hustles like hell and he plays hard. But he is now being closely analysed and under closer analysis there appears to be less substance behind the stats. His numbers don't quite add the kind of value they should be doing. Dare I say, the triple doubles appear to be happening in a manufactured way and not in an organic way. A triple double should be the by product of an exceptional all round game.....not the aim at the beginning of the game.

I'll close by saying this....the main pro-Westbrook argument circulating the netosphere relates to OKC's good overall record when he does achieve a Triple Double. This argument in itself perfectly encapsulates the lack of analysis that has already gone into Westbrook's MVP campaign. Of course they have a greater chance of winning if his opponents miss more shots (thereby gifting Westbrook more opportunities for uncontested rebounds) and if his teammates make more shots (thereby increasing his assist numbers). The much bigger determining factor in the win lies with his teammates and his opponents ability to hit their shots. Because of his ridiculous usage and OKC's rebounding strategy, the triple double becomes a by product of the win when people are mistaking it for being the cause of the win. Furthermore, the correct sample size to use when determining Westbrook's value is surely the 82 game season. Not the 34 or so where he has recorded a Triple Double and OKC have won. That's like saying 'everytime Steph hits 10 three pointers, Golden State win'. It's ridiculous. He's had a great year and people aren't attacking him. They're simply analysing the numbers and realising that the supposed Most Valuable Player also does a lot of things that either don't add value or have negative value.

Image

The "his record is this when he gets trip dubs" is one of the most illogical and comical stats I've heard in some time. It literally doesn't make sense since he goes after the triple double every single game so discounting the times he does not get it.. does not make sense. :lol: I am loving the media looking like complete buffoons now though since he's getting exposed, and many are doubling down since they fell for the hype.

Teko wrote:Mostly hated by rocket's and warrior's fans, no?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using RealGM mobile app

Warrior fans have 0 reasons to hate on him. Curry has embarrassed him repeatedly on an individual and team level. If that wasn't enough, he also took KD away from him. He literally poses no threat to Curry on an individual level (since Curry is clearly better by some margin) or team success level. The difference between those two teams is that they see a PG that actively makes their teammates better on their own team and then WB who somehow manages to make them worse. It's always amusing that not being starry eyed because he has a triple double means that people are hating though.
User avatar
Flash Falcon X
Head Coach
Posts: 6,093
And1: 1,567
Joined: Oct 19, 2010
 

How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#126 » by Flash Falcon X » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:28 pm

Impuniti wrote:
ono wrote:He's coming down on the other side of the hype hill. On his way up the hype hill, not only were people on his side over the KD saga, but people began obsessing about his triple doubles and the record and the fact that he's exciting and explosive and gritty and snarly, all the while, turning a blind to his flaws and neglecting to analyse the substance behind the statlines.

Now he's on the way down the other side of the hype hill and people are taking a second glance at his statlines and realising things like....

His direct opponents shoot around 10% above their average when Russ is guarding them.

He leads the league in uncontested rebounds and his contested rebound numbers have stayed the same for the last 3-4 years. He is claiming the rebound through the box out work of his team mates so the actual rebound isn't adding any value to the team.

He is statistically the worst player in the league when it comes to contesting shots at the perimeter. He is contesting roughly half the amount of shots as he was last season. Even Cameron Payne was contesting more in half as many minutes. To put it into context, only Hassan Whiteside and Deandre Jordan contest less perimeter shots.

He is visibly leaving his defensive assignment to sag into the paint in search of an uncontested rebound. The vast majority of his uncontested rebounds come from misses from 19+ feet out...in other words, the perimeter...which is where the guard should be...you know....guarding.

He is shooting a ridiculous amount of shots per game and at a poor success rate. Self explanatory. He is averaging far more attempts per game than his MVP rivals.

His usage rate is easily the highest in NBA history. If James Harden had the same usage rate, he would average around 37ppg and 14 assists per game. His rebounding would stay the same but that is purely because the calculation used to determine these figures cannot factor in OKC's strategy which allows Russ to claim 8 uncontested boards per game.

He is very clearly making decisions with the ball based on his box score and not the game score. He passes on open looks to hunt for an assist at points in the game where he doesn't have his 10 assists, yet plays hero ball once he has achieved his assisting totals.

None of this is an attack on Westbrook. He's a great player. He's exciting, he's a generational talent, he has a ridiculous and unique skillset. He hustles like hell and he plays hard. But he is now being closely analysed and under closer analysis there appears to be less substance behind the stats. His numbers don't quite add the kind of value they should be doing. Dare I say, the triple doubles appear to be happening in a manufactured way and not in an organic way. A triple double should be the by product of an exceptional all round game.....not the aim at the beginning of the game.

I'll close by saying this....the main pro-Westbrook argument circulating the netosphere relates to OKC's good overall record when he does achieve a Triple Double. This argument in itself perfectly encapsulates the lack of analysis that has already gone into Westbrook's MVP campaign. Of course they have a greater chance of winning if his opponents miss more shots (thereby gifting Westbrook more opportunities for uncontested rebounds) and if his teammates make more shots (thereby increasing his assist numbers). The much bigger determining factor in the win lies with his teammates and his opponents ability to hit their shots. Because of his ridiculous usage and OKC's rebounding strategy, the triple double becomes a by product of the win when people are mistaking it for being the cause of the win. Furthermore, the correct sample size to use when determining Westbrook's value is surely the 82 game season. Not the 34 or so where he has recorded a Triple Double and OKC have won. That's like saying 'everytime Steph hits 10 three pointers, Golden State win'. It's ridiculous. He's had a great year and people aren't attacking him. They're simply analysing the numbers and realising that the supposed Most Valuable Player also does a lot of things that either don't add value or have negative value.

Image

The "his record is this when he gets trip dubs" is one of the most illogical and comical stats I've heard in some time. It literally doesn't make sense since he goes after the triple double every single game so discounting the times he does not get it.. does not make sense. :lol: I am loving the media looking like complete buffoons now though since he's getting exposed, and many are doubling down since they fell for the hype.

Teko wrote:Mostly hated by rocket's and warrior's fans, no?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using RealGM mobile app

Warrior fans have 0 reasons to hate on him. Curry has embarrassed him repeatedly on an individual and team level. If that wasn't enough, he also took KD away from him. He literally poses no threat to Curry on an individual level (since Curry is clearly better by some margin) or team success level. The difference between those two teams is that they see a PG that actively makes their teammates better on their own team and then WB who somehow manages to make them worse. It's always amusing that not being starry eyed because he has a triple double means that people are hating though.


It's funny because I always see comments saying "Westbrook will be licking his chops against Curry" like Steph is some 7 year old boy who cant keep up with him.

What happened whenever the Warriors played the Thunder? Westbrook absolutely became an non-factor in every game so I don't see where all this "licking his chops" comes from.

Just because Westbrook is athletic and gets to hog all the stats now that he's the only good player on his own team doesn't mean he'll do well against Curry.

I wish the Warriors got to play OKC in the first round and have KD sit out the series. Would have fun to see the Curry/Westbrook battles.

I agree that Westbrook's stats in the regular season were amazing and likely won't be repeated by anyone else again, but in the Playoffs EFFICIENCY matters.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app
Image
#DubNation
User avatar
Flash Falcon X
Head Coach
Posts: 6,093
And1: 1,567
Joined: Oct 19, 2010
 

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#127 » by Flash Falcon X » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:32 pm

ono wrote:He's coming down on the other side of the hype hill. On his way up the hype hill, not only were people on his side over the KD saga, but people began obsessing about his triple doubles and the record and the fact that he's exciting and explosive and gritty and snarly, all the while, turning a blind to his flaws and neglecting to analyse the substance behind the statlines.

Now he's on the way down the other side of the hype hill and people are taking a second glance at his statlines and realising things like....

His direct opponents shoot around 10% above their average when Russ is guarding them.

He leads the league in uncontested rebounds and his contested rebound numbers have stayed the same for the last 3-4 years. He is claiming the rebound through the box out work of his team mates so the actual rebound isn't adding any value to the team.

He is statistically the worst player in the league when it comes to contesting shots at the perimeter. He is contesting roughly half the amount of shots as he was last season. Even Cameron Payne was contesting more in half as many minutes. To put it into context, only Hassan Whiteside and Deandre Jordan contest less perimeter shots.

He is visibly leaving his defensive assignment to sag into the paint in search of an uncontested rebound. The vast majority of his uncontested rebounds come from misses from 19+ feet out...in other words, the perimeter...which is where the guard should be...you know....guarding.

He is shooting a ridiculous amount of shots per game and at a poor success rate. Self explanatory. He is averaging far more attempts per game than his MVP rivals.

His usage rate is easily the highest in NBA history. If James Harden had the same usage rate, he would average around 37ppg and 14 assists per game. His rebounding would stay the same but that is purely because the calculation used to determine these figures cannot factor in OKC's strategy which allows Russ to claim 8 uncontested boards per game.

He is very clearly making decisions with the ball based on his box score and not the game score. He passes on open looks to hunt for an assist at points in the game where he doesn't have his 10 assists, yet plays hero ball once he has achieved his assisting totals.

None of this is an attack on Westbrook. He's a great player. He's exciting, he's a generational talent, he has a ridiculous and unique skillset. He hustles like hell and he plays hard. But he is now being closely analysed and under closer analysis there appears to be less substance behind the stats. His numbers don't quite add the kind of value they should be doing. Dare I say, the triple doubles appear to be happening in a manufactured way and not in an organic way. A triple double should be the by product of an exceptional all round game.....not the aim at the beginning of the game.

I'll close by saying this....the main pro-Westbrook argument circulating the netosphere relates to OKC's good overall record when he does achieve a Triple Double. This argument in itself perfectly encapsulates the lack of analysis that has already gone into Westbrook's MVP campaign. Of course they have a greater chance of winning if his opponents miss more shots (thereby gifting Westbrook more opportunities for uncontested rebounds) and if his teammates make more shots (thereby increasing his assist numbers). The much bigger determining factor in the win lies with his teammates and his opponents ability to hit their shots. Because of his ridiculous usage and OKC's rebounding strategy, the triple double becomes a by product of the win when people are mistaking it for being the cause of the win. Furthermore, the correct sample size to use when determining Westbrook's value is surely the 82 game season. Not the 34 or so where he has recorded a Triple Double and OKC have won. That's like saying 'everytime Steph hits 10 three pointers, Golden State win'. It's ridiculous. He's had a great year and people aren't attacking him. They're simply analysing the numbers and realising that the supposed Most Valuable Player also does a lot of things that either don't add value or have negative value.


A lot of positive feedback to your post, which further proves your point.

A couple weeks ago, a thread was made on RealGM linking an article talking about how Westbrook's rebounds are overrated because he NEVER guards the three point shot. Even DeAndre Jordan defends the three point shot better than Westbrook.

The response to that thread was highly negative. Posters were saying things like "wow, people try so hard to hate on Westbrook, give the man respect."

Yet now, people are more willing to be open minded and look between the lines regarding Westbrook.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app
Image
#DubNation
old skool
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,331
And1: 224
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Location: Chi

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#128 » by old skool » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Westbrook gets bashed because it is relatively easy to beat his team. You only have to stop one man. The fact that he is incredibly talented is beside the point. He never learned to play WITH Durant. He only learned to take turns with Durant. That is not a winning formula.
HurricaneKid
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,592
And1: 1,619
Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Location: Sconnie Nation
 

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#129 » by HurricaneKid » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:22 pm

old skool wrote:Westbrook gets bashed because it is relatively easy to beat his team. You only have to stop one man. The fact that he is incredibly talented is beside the point. He never learned to play WITH Durant. He only learned to take turns with Durant. That is not a winning formula.


You are still letting him off the hook. He has never learned to play with ANYONE. He just took turns with KD.

He was INCREDIBLE for the first three quarters. His guys were hitting their shots and he had 11 assists at halftime and led his team to to 68 first half points. He had TWO assists in the second half, took 12 straight shots for OKC in destroying their hopes in the 4th. And THAT guy is not only not an MVP, he isn't an NBA player. And THAT guy has shown his mug all too regularly throughout the years. THAT guy is all too recognizable.
fishnc wrote:If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and LeBron, I would shoot LeBron twice.
User avatar
thinkingwarriors
Analyst
Posts: 3,342
And1: 1,345
Joined: May 15, 2006
Location: On the road...
     

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#130 » by thinkingwarriors » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:23 pm

I don't know why Warriors fans are brought into this. As a Warriors fan I know his style of ball will never, absolutely never win against the Warriors ball movement, constant motion scheme. The Thunder just aren't a threat as long as he's their best player. Ask Spurs fans how they feel. I have no interest in or reason to bash him. He can continue chucking, missing and turning the ball over into NBA history, it makes no difference to a fan of a team that actually wins championships.
Anonymous Lakers Fan wrote:This guy is a bigger Steve Nash, that can post. I would not trade him(D'Angelo Russell) for anyone in the league not named Durant.
User avatar
jazzfan1971
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 34,769
And1: 2,679
Joined: Jul 16, 2001
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#131 » by jazzfan1971 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:08 pm

I think we tear down everyone.

Westbrook is an amazing player. I'd love to have him.

Gotta work on his efficiency though.

There have always been inneficient scorers who I didn't like. But I can overlook Westbrook s shortcomings because unlike those guys j think he's still a positive despite everything.
Recent real life trades have shown me that I have no idea what a 'fair' value of a player actually is. So, when I comment on the value of your proposed trade take it with the knowledge that I have no real clue.
ILOVEIT
General Manager
Posts: 8,603
And1: 1,025
Joined: May 28, 2004

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#132 » by ILOVEIT » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:23 pm

Prince187 wrote:
ono wrote:He's coming down on the other side of the hype hill. On his way up the hype hill, not only were people on his side over the KD saga, but people began obsessing about his triple doubles and the record and the fact that he's exciting and explosive and gritty and snarly, all the while, turning a blind to his flaws and neglecting to analyse the substance behind the statlines.

Now he's on the way down the other side of the hype hill and people are taking a second glance at his statlines and realising things like....

His direct opponents shoot around 10% above their average when Russ is guarding them.

He leads the league in uncontested rebounds and his contested rebound numbers have stayed the same for the last 3-4 years. He is claiming the rebound through the box out work of his team mates so the actual rebound isn't adding any value to the team.

He is statistically the worst player in the league when it comes to contesting shots at the perimeter. He is contesting roughly half the amount of shots as he was last season. Even Cameron Payne was contesting more in half as many minutes. To put it into context, only Hassan Whiteside and Deandre Jordan contest less perimeter shots.

He is visibly leaving his defensive assignment to sag into the paint in search of an uncontested rebound. The vast majority of his uncontested rebounds come from misses from 19+ feet out...in other words, the perimeter...which is where the guard should be...you know....guarding.

He is shooting a ridiculous amount of shots per game and at a poor success rate. Self explanatory. He is averaging far more attempts per game than his MVP rivals.

His usage rate is easily the highest in NBA history. If James Harden had the same usage rate, he would average around 37ppg and 14 assists per game. His rebounding would stay the same but that is purely because the calculation used to determine these figures cannot factor in OKC's strategy which allows Russ to claim 8 uncontested boards per game.

He is very clearly making decisions with the ball based on his box score and not the game score. He passes on open looks to hunt for an assist at points in the game where he doesn't have his 10 assists, yet plays hero ball once he has achieved his assisting totals.

None of this is an attack on Westbrook. He's a great player. He's exciting, he's a generational talent, he has a ridiculous and unique skillset. He hustles like hell and he plays hard. But he is now being closely analysed and under closer analysis there appears to be less substance behind the stats. His numbers don't quite add the kind of value they should be doing. Dare I say, the triple doubles appear to be happening in a manufactured way and not in an organic way. A triple double should be the by product of an exceptional all round game.....not the aim at the beginning of the game.

I'll close by saying this....the main pro-Westbrook argument circulating the netosphere relates to OKC's good overall record when he does achieve a Triple Double. This argument in itself perfectly encapsulates the lack of analysis that has already gone into Westbrook's MVP campaign. Of course they have a greater chance of winning if his opponents miss more shots (thereby gifting Westbrook more opportunities for uncontested rebounds) and if his teammates make more shots (thereby increasing his assist numbers). The much bigger determining factor in the win lies with his teammates and his opponents ability to hit their shots. Because of his ridiculous usage and OKC's rebounding strategy, the triple double becomes a by product of the win when people are mistaking it for being the cause of the win. Furthermore, the correct sample size to use when determining Westbrook's value is surely the 82 game season. Not the 34 or so where he has recorded a Triple Double and OKC have won. That's like saying 'everytime Steph hits 10 three pointers, Golden State win'. It's ridiculous. He's had a great year and people aren't attacking him. They're simply analysing the numbers and realising that the supposed Most Valuable Player also does a lot of things that either don't add value or have negative value.

This should be required reading for all NBA fans


Not to mention MVP voters....
Welcome adopted Splash Bro Kevin Durant! Let it rain!
SF_Warriors
Veteran
Posts: 2,789
And1: 957
Joined: Jul 12, 2012

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#133 » by SF_Warriors » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:40 pm

Rb is a superstar and top 3 or 4 player

He stat pads but that doesnt detract from how good he is

Im goin harden for mvp but its not bcus i hate rb, i am a huge fan and rooted for him to avg the trip dub
couchie
Pro Prospect
Posts: 793
And1: 440
Joined: Jul 09, 2015
     

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#134 » by couchie » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:50 am

I'm a warriors fan that couldn't stand James "they ain't that good" Harden. But I give him props this year for turning around his play. I thought he should have been MVP. So let's not just drop Warriors fan into some sort of collective like minded group that are petty because others are having a great season. Westbrook is an enigma. I always liked him for his outfits. Fashion forward. I totally disagree that he is top 3 or 4 in the league and I wouldn't want him on my team. But if Harden can make this great step forward so can Westbrook. But it is not up to him, it's up to management. They need to build around Westbrook's skill set. They need a coach who will come up with a game plan and run some plays when the offense bogs down. You play to win, not to get triple doubles. If Cantor or Adams can not rebound and make an outlet pass then you better try to get someone else.

Remember last season. Russ and Durant lost so many games in the 4th quarter because they didn't play as a team. They took turns. They didn't trust their team mates. Then they discovered something in the playoffs against San Antonio and the Warriors. They played dominant team ball. And now a player like Adams, who I thought was going to be a fantastic big, can't even grab a rebound. What the hell happened to him.
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 21,597
And1: 10,995
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#135 » by E-Balla » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:53 am

ono wrote:He's coming down on the other side of the hype hill. On his way up the hype hill, not only were people on his side over the KD saga, but people began obsessing about his triple doubles and the record and the fact that he's exciting and explosive and gritty and snarly, all the while, turning a blind to his flaws and neglecting to analyse the substance behind the statlines.

Now he's on the way down the other side of the hype hill and people are taking a second glance at his statlines and realising things like....

His direct opponents shoot around 10% above their average when Russ is guarding them.

Not true at all they shoot 3.5% better. Still bad but 10% would be by far the worst ever I'm guessing since the worst are usually around 6%.

He leads the league in uncontested rebounds and his contested rebound numbers have stayed the same for the last 3-4 years. He is claiming the rebound through the box out work of his team mates so the actual rebound isn't adding any value to the team.

OKC has a 52.5 eFG% off Westbrook's defensive rebounds and a 49.9 eFG% on all other shots. Its actually 100% true that OKC runs in transition better when he gets boards. And its not like its hurting the team on the defensive glass either they're the 3rd best defensive rebounding team in the league. Also his uncontested rebound percentage is about the same as James Harden and Lebron James.

He is statistically the worst player in the league when it comes to contesting shots at the perimeter. He is contesting roughly half the amount of shots as he was last season. Even Cameron Payne was contesting more in half as many minutes. To put it into context, only Hassan Whiteside and Deandre Jordan contest less perimeter shots.

Finally a legit criticism.

He is visibly leaving his defensive assignment to sag into the paint in search of an uncontested rebound. The vast majority of his uncontested rebounds come from misses from 19+ feet out...in other words, the perimeter...which is where the guard should be...you know....guarding.

You seem to be really hurt by 2 rebounds a game here. If Westbrook grabbed 6 rebounds a game and had the same impact he'd still deserve MVP.

He is shooting a ridiculous amount of shots per game and at a poor success rate. Self explanatory. He is averaging far more attempts per game than his MVP rivals.

Is it? He's above league average TS% unless I'm wrong and he's leading the league in scoring. Actually his points pee minute and efficiency are very close to Kobe in 06. Plus he's more efficient than his teammates so he kinda should be taking a ton of shots.

His usage rate is easily the highest in NBA history. If James Harden had the same usage rate, he would average around 37ppg and 14 assists per game. His rebounding would stay the same but that is purely because the calculation used to determine these figures cannot factor in OKC's strategy which allows Russ to claim 8 uncontested boards per game.

This is complete BS because usage rate doesn't take assists into account at all. Admit it you really thought you were right here... Also according to statistical studies we can expect a 1.5-2 decrease in individual ORTG for every 1% increase in usage percentage. That means Harden's expected ORTG would drop from a 118 to an expected 107 (which is lower than Westbrook's ORTG).

He is very clearly making decisions with the ball based on his box score and not the game score. He passes on open looks to hunt for an assist at points in the game where he doesn't have his 10 assists, yet plays hero ball once he has achieved his assisting totals.

That's just not true. He scores at the end of games no matter what his assist numbers look like and its why OKC is the most clutch team in the league and Westbrook is having one of the best clutch seasons ever. If Westbrook was hurting the team they wouldn't be so terrible without him and good with him.

None of this is an attack on Westbrook. He's a great player. He's exciting, he's a generational talent, he has a ridiculous and unique skillset. He hustles like hell and he plays hard. But he is now being closely analysed and under closer analysis there appears to be less substance behind the stats. His numbers don't quite add the kind of value they should be doing. Dare I say, the triple doubles appear to be happening in a manufactured way and not in an organic way. A triple double should be the by product of an exceptional all round game.....not the aim at the beginning of the game.

I'll close by saying this....the main pro-Westbrook argument circulating the netosphere relates to OKC's good overall record when he does achieve a Triple Double. This argument in itself perfectly encapsulates the lack of analysis that has already gone into Westbrook's MVP campaign. Of course they have a greater chance of winning if his opponents miss more shots (thereby gifting Westbrook more opportunities for uncontested rebounds) and if his teammates make more shots (thereby increasing his assist numbers). The much bigger determining factor in the win lies with his teammates and his opponents ability to hit their shots. Because of his ridiculous usage and OKC's rebounding strategy, the triple double becomes a by product of the win when people are mistaking it for being the cause of the win. Furthermore, the correct sample size to use when determining Westbrook's value is surely the 82 game season. Not the 34 or so where he has recorded a Triple Double and OKC have won. That's like saying 'everytime Steph hits 10 three pointers, Golden State win'. It's ridiculous. He's had a great year and people aren't attacking him. They're simply analysing the numbers and realising that the supposed Most Valuable Player also does a lot of things that either don't add value or have negative value.

99% of your criticism is absurd, half is made up, and the other half shows an inability to understand statistics. If you want to go with wins Curry and Kawhi are you guy. If you want to go with individual play its Russ.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
HotRocks34
General Manager
Posts: 8,672
And1: 8,728
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
 

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#136 » by HotRocks34 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:55 am

Great question by the OP and very timely, as well.

Interested to read through this thread.

Just for the record, I've always been a Russ fan and have said so several times over the years here at RealGM.
HotRocks34
General Manager
Posts: 8,672
And1: 8,728
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
 

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#137 » by HotRocks34 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:04 am

DubTheVanDamage wrote:The GB has a very short memory and narratives whipsaw based on the last game. I've seen Westbrook called the best player in the NBA on RealGM and the owner of the second best individual season in NBA history... then suddenly, RW is a team killing ball hog. Neither point of view is realistic.



Sorry my friend, you are not the arbiter of what is and is not "realistic," particularly when I'm on the other side of the draw.

As you correctly point out -- Westbrook is no Kobe.

Or to put it more accurately, Kobe is no Westbrook.



Now, let's rejoin the thread in progress.



Gotta love those RealGM Snipers -- the people who try to take shots at you down low, but don't have the courage to come at you unless they are in the shroud.

Wise choice, padawan.

Wise choice.
User avatar
jason bourne
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,581
And1: 240
Joined: Dec 23, 2013
   

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#138 » by jason bourne » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:19 am

I didn't think he gets bashed. Unless you want to call not getting the MVP award getting bashed.

The Rockets are the second most clutch team. They call themselves Clutch City. The order for top 5 clutch teams are the Jazz, Rockets, Wizards, Celtics and the Hawks. The Thunder are 13th.
Image

“The most contrarian thing of all is not to oppose the crowd but to think for yourself.”
User avatar
DubTheVanDamage
Senior
Posts: 602
And1: 759
Joined: Dec 04, 2013
     

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#139 » by DubTheVanDamage » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:46 pm

HotRocks34 wrote:
DubTheVanDamage wrote:The GB has a very short memory and narratives whipsaw based on the last game. I've seen Westbrook called the best player in the NBA on RealGM and the owner of the second best individual season in NBA history... then suddenly, RW is a team killing ball hog. Neither point of view is realistic.



Sorry my friend, you are not the arbiter of what is and is not "realistic," particularly when I'm on the other side of the draw.

As you correctly point out -- Westbrook is no Kobe.

Or to put it more accurately, Kobe is no Westbrook.



Now, let's rejoin the thread in progress.



Gotta love those RealGM Snipers -- the people who try to take shots at you down low, but don't have the courage to come at you unless they are in the shroud.

Wise choice, padawan.

Wise choice.


Sorry, but I didn't bother responding to your post because your entire premise was based on box scores and box-score linked stats. You ignored efficiency, all forms of +/-, and team success. If you want to believe that BPM is the only measure of a player, good for you. I don't see anything interesting coming out of discussing the facile analysis of the BPM Jedi. :D

As for the rest of it, yes, by definition, if Westbrook isn't Kobe then Kobe isn't Westbrook. Thanks.
I feel like it's going to give me the best opportunity to win and to win for multiple years, and not only just to win in the regular season or just to win five games in a row or three games in a row, I want to be able to win championships. -LeBron
User avatar
Han Solo
General Manager
Posts: 8,029
And1: 4,619
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Contact:
     

Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#140 » by Han Solo » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:20 pm

nbafan38 wrote:He is the anti-Durant, the anti-Lebron, the true old school loyal passionate machine that everyone claims they long for a player who is willing to put a team on his back the way MJ or Kobe would and yet his roster is much worse than either of their rosters ever were. And yet he gets so much criticism on realgm. I don't get it, it's like you can't have your cake and eat it too, superstars get bashed for forming superteams but then if the team around the star is trash they are expected to defer to teammates much weaker than them?

He's 100% this year's MVP.
Image

Return to The General Board