Would OKC win more games with a different point guard?

[Triples333]

I'd actually like to see Curry and Westbrook switch places. I am really curious to see how it would go. Curry has been so pampered playing in such a great offensive system while westbrook has played with crappy offensive sets his whole career.

You understand that Curry is the system because he is of the GOAT off-ball players. When you have ball dominant player like Westbrook who is terrible off-ball player, Warriors will play in completely different system, similar to Thunder's - iso after iso.

Wonder how that works when you aren't playing next to another historically good shooter in Klay Thompson and spacers all over the floor. If two guys go to you and leave Andre Roberson open its a bit different.

One thing about Westbrook that is underrated in this comparison is his passing. He is a better passer than Curry, especially in tight spaces. Force Curry to act as a point guard and constantly create plays and you'll see his issues compacted. He has had it easy with so many escape valves on offense.



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He was a 47/44/90 slash player alongside Monta Ellis, Reggie Williams and company. It was not until they got the ball in his hands and relinquished Monta from the team that he and the team began to truly flourish. And we often see him on the court without Klay and KD. He and the team still dominate. Feel free to check the on/off #'s or watch some film. This is old news.

[Scizzup]

people are confusing averaging a triple double with leading a team to similar record lol.

[floppymoose]

I'd actually like to see Curry and Westbrook switch places. I am really curious to see how it would go. Curry has been so pampered playing in such a great offensive system while westbrook has played with crappy offensive sets his whole career.

You understand that Curry is the system because he is of the GOAT off-ball players. When you have ball dominant player like Westbrook who is terrible off-ball player, Warriors will play in completely different system, similar to Thunder's - iso after iso.

Wonder how that works when you aren't playing next to another historically good shooter in Klay Thompson and spacers all over the floor. If two guys go to you and leave Andre Roberson open its a bit different.

Curry was on the Warriors when they sucked. It was during the first three years of his pro career. He did not have reliable guys around him. He also missed a lot of time with ankle inuries and had surgery on it during his third season. It was pretty clear to me that he was going to be a star by the end of his third season, even though GS won only 23 games.

Watch on YouTube

The next season he got to play the whole year and the Warriors jumped from 23 wins to 47. Not all of that was Curry but a huge part of it was.

[fortinbras]

T-Mac imo

[warriorschamps]

Nothing against Westbrook he is a great talent and unbelievable freak of an athlete. But nobody that's smart would even think of taking him over Curry. Ask Durant who he prefer as his point guard, lol.

Westbrook is an incredible talent. Probably the greatest athlete in the game. But he isn't great at moderating to say the least. Westbrook need to be surrounded by players who can call rank on him ala Durant or at least players on the same level as he is to keep him in check and to keep from from going off the deep end.

It's funny but Westbrook actually had a better year LAST year when everybody was complaining about him but because Durant was there nobody wanted to see that. If not for Curry last year it would of been more justified to give him the MVP last year. Because of Durant he had no choice but to control himself. Westbrook even has a commercial, I do what I want now. Well that's not necessarily a good thing especially for the team.

This year because of the triple doubles and more importantly because Durant wasn't there people kind of overlooked his flaws. I said it before and I'll say it again. If Westbrook had this exact same year, averaging a triple double, scoring 31 point a game while shooting 42% and Durant was on the team would he still win MVP? I don't think so. And you could give the Thunder 13 more wins and still wouldn't have won the MVP. I'm not trying to downplay Westbrook, again the guy is an incredible talent. But being a great talent doesn't necessarily make you an MVP. Look at Melo the guy has all the talent anybody could ever want but most folks don't rank Melo when talking about all time greatness. There are certain GM that wouldn't give up much to get him and other who wouldn't take him on their team. That should tell you all you need to know. I've defended him many times but the flaws Westbrook had in his game are still there. Westbrook went from underrated to overrated in the course of a year just because Durant left.

Would OKC win more games with a different point guard. It depends on who it is. Curry, no question they would win more. Paul, probably would be about the same. Rondo, no. So it all depends.

And those who bring up defense. Please. Curry is actually a good defender. He plays a high IQ defensive game despite not being a freak of nature athlete or a guy with a lot of size. No way GSW would be a top 3 defense three years in a row with a bad defensive point guard regardless of who is around him. It wouldn't happen. Yes Curry picks up silly fouls every blue moon. But that's what happen when you actually try to defend and aren't a defensive sieve like Westbrook and Harden and many other players.

Curry make players around him better. Klay isn't a 22 ppg scorer if Westbrook was his pg all these years. No doubt about that. Don't mention Durant. Durant was there before Westbrook, was a better player and could call rank over him, so that's different.
I compare it to when Billups went to Denver for Iverson. The point guard production went down but everybody else production went up and most importantly the team was ten times better. Of course in Detroit the exact opposite happened. The point guard production went up, the rest of the team production went down and the team wasn't nearly as good. That wasn't a coincidence.

The beauty of Curry is he can keep his production high while simultaneously making sure everybody else production is high as well. Victor Oladipo is a 20+ppg scorer playing with Curry.

[Coxy]

Nothing against Westbrook he is a great talent and unbelievable freak of an athlete. But nobody that's smart would even think of taking him over Curry. Ask Durant who he prefer as his point guard, lol.

Westbrook is an incredible talent. Probably the greatest athlete in the game. But he isn't great at moderating to say the least. Westbrook need to be surrounded by players who can call rank on him ala Durant or at least players on the same level as he is to keep him in check and to keep from from going off the deep end.

It's funny but Westbrook actually had a better year LAST year when everybody was complaining about him but because Durant was there nobody wanted to see that. If not for Curry last year it would of been more justified to give him the MVP last year. Because of Durant he had no choice but to control himself. Westbrook even has a commercial, I do what I want now. Well that's not necessarily a good thing especially for the team.

This year because of the triple doubles and more importantly because Durant wasn't there people kind of overlooked his flaws. I said it before and I'll say it again. If Westbrook had this exact same year, averaging a triple double, scoring 31 point a game while shooting 42% and Durant was on the team would he still win MVP? I don't think so. And you could give the Thunder 13 more wins and still wouldn't have won the MVP. I'm not trying to downplay Westbrook, again the guy is an incredible talent. But being a great talent doesn't necessarily make you an MVP. Look at Melo the guy has all the talent anybody could ever want but most folks don't rank Melo when talking about all time greatness. There are certain GM that wouldn't give up much to get him and other who wouldn't take him on their team. That should tell you all you need to know. I've defended him many times but the flaws Westbrook had in his game are still there. Westbrook went from underrated to overrated in the course of a year just because Durant left.

Would OKC win more games with a different point guard. It depends on who it is. Curry, no question they would win more. Paul, probably would be about the same. Rondo, no. So it all depends.

And those who bring up defense. Please. Curry is actually a good defender. He plays a high IQ defensive game despite not being a freak of nature athlete or a guy with a lot of size. No way GSW would be a top 3 defense three years in a row with a bad defensive point guard regardless of who is around him. It wouldn't happen. Yes Curry picks up silly fouls every blue moon. But that's what happen when you actually try to defend and aren't a defensive sieve like Westbrook and Harden and many other players.

Curry make players around him better. Klay isn't a 22 ppg scorer if Westbrook was his pg all these years. No doubt about that. Don't mention Durant. Durant was there before Westbrook, was a better player and could call rank over him, so that's different.
I compare it to when Billups went to Denver for Iverson. The point guard production went down but everybody else production went up and most importantly the team was ten times better. Of course in Detroit the exact opposite happened. The point guard production went up, the rest of the team production went down and the team wasn't nearly as good. That wasn't a coincidence.

The beauty of Curry is he can keep his production high while simultaneously making sure everybody else production is high as well. Victor Oladipo is a 20+ppg scorer playing with Curry.

Fantastic post, my sentiments exactly. You get it.

[warriorschamps]

Watch on YouTube

Westbrook said it best there himself, lol

[Patches Perry]

Ask Durant who he prefer as his point guard, lol.

I just asked him - He said he would definitely prefer to play with Curry, and more importantly, he confirmed that he would definitely prefer to NOT play against him.

I'd rather be slightly inferior to Curry than deathly afraid to play against him.

[BallerTalk]

The beauty of Curry is he can keep his production high while simultaneously making sure everybody else production is high as well.

I think people don't fully appreciate how rare and impressive that ability is.

[Yoshun]

I'm not really sure where this idea of Westbrook not passing or creating for others comes from. He's 3rd in the league APG, 0.3 being John Wall, and tops the league in Assist % (among the league's top PGs) and in 2 les MPG than Harden and Wall. Somehow, he has done this without passing the ball or creating for his teammates. Go figure.

Harden and Wall pass the ball so his team has the best chance to score
Westbrook pass the ball if he has a chance to get an assist
Can't blame him
people in this era care more about personal stat than team success
that's how their agent can get them bigger contract by showing their stats

wasn't there news about someone didn't shoot anymore 3 for the rest of the season because his contract has a bonus if he can shoot over certain 3 point percent?
he didn't shoot anymore because another missed will put his percentage lower than the contract number

Seriously?

[BallerTalk]

There is simply no one with the ability to score and pass like Westbrook can in the history of the game on a consistent basis while not killing his team in other areas, while also being able to handle the ball as much as he can and give the energy on as many possessions as Westbrook does.

Spoiler:

[Yoshun]

I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.

PG- George Hill
SG- Victor Oladipo
SF- Andre Roberson
PF- Taj Gibson
C - Steven Adams

Bench- Enes Kanter
Bench- Semaj Christon
Bench- Domantas Sabonis
Bench- Doug McDermott
Bench- Jerami Grant

50 win team?

Yeah possibly. The talent gets utilized better at the very least, which I think would help develop the team aspect more, and get players more engaged and motivated to win, rather than help 1 player to do,it all. Hill is a really good defender, and an underrated scorer and leader. Can't stress enough what bringing in a high character guy like Hill would do, and removing the arrogant ego of Westbrook would do for that group. I'm huge on chemistry, and I don't think RW is very good for it.

The Jazz finished with 4 more wins this year, 4. That's with Gobert (possible defensive player of the year), Heyward, and Favors. There is no one on the Thunder with any where near the talent of any of those players.

[ono]

It's hard to tell. I keep reading about how the rest of OKC are total trash but people are really under estimating the cost of Russ not involving his team mates enough during the game. Russ is going on stretches in games where he is taking over for such extended periods of time that players easily fall out of rhythm and flow due to being totally redundant in the offence. You can't expect a player to watch Russ play 1 on 5 on constant loop whilst still remaining focused enough to knock down a semi open look. It's difficult to make moves on offence when you're not involved in the game. How can a player feel confident and comfortable if the leader of the team is treating him like an after thought?

You could argue that a different point guard distributes the ball more evenly, or more accurately (meaning the shooter can literally catch and shoot without breaking stride) or even get other people hot. A different point guard most certainly offers more defensive protection on the perimeter. A different point guard certainly contests much more shots. All in all, I think a different point guard scores a fair amount less, shoots a better percentage, probably turns the ball over less (unless he's Harden), has less usage, defends the perimeter better and gets team mates more involved which probably leads to greater collective effort and performance on both sides of the ball. So with that in mind, it depends on what you think the trade off is between the points he gets you and the points he costs you vs what his similarly talented counterparts can offer. There's possibly less upside but also less downside.

What possibly swings it for me is this - a different point guard possibly allows OKC to attract a genuine number 2 option. I'm sure Russ is admired throughout the league, but I'm not sure he is the type of player other stars would want to play with.

Would I trade Russ for another point guard? It depends. I'd take Harden, possibly Curry, possibly Wall, purely because OKC then become a more attractive option for other stars in my opinion. With the way Westbrook is currently playing, I really cannot fathom why anybody would want to play with him. Imagine the sales pitch..." Come to OKC and be un-involved in not winning"

[SlowPaced]

I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.

Congrats, you've just earned yourself a signature. Easily the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.

[Young_Star11]

Not sure. Would be interesting to see Stephen Curry with his own team.

[og15]

Win more games? Can't see it, a similar amount as in mid to high 40's? Sure, but this team is probably maximized success wise in terms of how the players all fit. Now, does that mean that the other PG would have to have as much usage? No they wouldn't since players are different, and a different star level PG can give them some similar level offense with fewer counting stats. They defend and they rebound, and they are an average offense and above average defense. Their biggest offensive strength is offensive rebounding, so that helps (Westbrook as a guard helps in that too btw).

[MaxRider]

I'm not really sure where this idea of Westbrook not passing or creating for others comes from. He's 3rd in the league APG, 0.3 being John Wall, and tops the league in Assist % (among the league's top PGs) and in 2 les MPG than Harden and Wall. Somehow, he has done this without passing the ball or creating for his teammates. Go figure.

Harden and Wall pass the ball so his team has the best chance to score
Westbrook pass the ball if he has a chance to get an assist
Can't blame him
people in this era care more about personal stat than team success
that's how their agent can get them bigger contract by showing their stats

wasn't there news about someone didn't shoot anymore 3 for the rest of the season because his contract has a bonus if he can shoot over certain 3 point percent?
he didn't shoot anymore because another missed will put his percentage lower than the contract number

Seriously?

you talk about the first part of the second part?
here you go
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/blazers-f-mo-harkless-made-500k-by-not-shooting-3-pointers-in-the-seasons-final-week-041317

[Coxy]

I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.

Congrats, you've just earned yourself a signature. Easily the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.

Thanks, happy to stick with it.

[OlDirtMcBert]

No, I actually don't know if there is any PG in the history of the game would could do more with this roster.

Westbrook might be the GOAT floor raising PG, especially after this season where he brings a roster that probably would win 5 games without him to the 6th seed.

His teammates suck because of the Westbrook-tailor made offense. Zero movement to get the other players involved. No cutting or sets. If he'd simply allow the team to run some sets with movement they'd be considerably better. You can't tell me Russ can't create shots from off ball situations. If he can blow by guys with the ball, why isn't he running a few plays where he cuts off the ball to get others involved? Apparently he's as sharpe as a marble. And he's also selfish enough to run off a Top Ten HoF talent.

So yeah, I'd say keeping Harden and trading Westbrook would've been the better move and all of those Okc Jags would look similar to Harden's Jags in Houston. 7 seconds or less doesn't freeze out teammates...dribbling the ball for 18 seconds of every shot clock does.

[JazzUte88]

Eh. They're probably a 32-36 win team without Westbrook IMO if you replaced him with Hill, Conley, Teague, etc.