Kyrie needs to be in the top 5 player discussion...Celtics record 10-2 Cavs 5-6..MVP year

[gino_giode]

You guys realize curry had outplayed Irving in this series right? 3 out of 4 games. He's played much better defense too.

Who is he defending most of the time? The conversation has shifted to how Kyrie is a force on offense while having to deal with both Klay/Curry. Curry most of the time tails JR or Shumpert.

I don't think it's unrealistic to say when Curry/Klay are forced to defend and expend energy, their offence may suffer a bit. This happened to them last year. JR/Shump/Korver/Deron FINALLY all showed up in g4, and they employed a lot of motion action to wear out the Warriors a bit rather than letting them conserve

[therealbig3]

In the Finals through the first 3 games...

Kyrie with LeBron off the floor...25% TS, 48 Orating...the team has a 45 Orating vs a 135 DRating...in 9 minutes. That's unbelievably bad.

LeBron with Kyrie off the floor...71% TS, 109 Orating...the team has a 90 Orating vs a 84 DRating...in 15 minutes. They actually outscore the Warriors, and dare I say it, shut them down. The team also does twice as good on offense compared to Kyrie in/LeBron out (still not good, but they're at least still outscoring the Warriors).

And I see no reason why that trend didn't continue in game 4, since LeBron was a +32, and Kyrie was a +7, in a 21 point win.

People keep getting carried away by big point totals. That's literally all Kyrie does well, is go get his and score a bunch of points...at the expense of team offense and defense.

He's not a top 25 player, lmao at being in the top 5 conversation. Between LeBron, Curry, Durant, Green, Love, Klay, and Kyrie...Kyrie is the worst one.

[Soca]

This thread aint about kyrie. It is about Lebron James, with the pro and anti camps going at it using Kyrie as a prop. No need to conceal it.

It's about Kyrie who for the 2nd time is outperforming Curry in the finals. Dude is averaging 30ppg in the finals against GSW but is getting Mcollum/Lillard comparisons and is unfairly being criticized for not winning before Lebron came even though he's only 24 years old and was on a tanking Cavs roster.

If you play better than Curry for 2x finals in a row you are better than him. And if you are better than Curry you are top 5.

I wouldn't conclude that just yet. Curry was averaging a nearly triple double on solid efficiency the first 3 games of the series. He had a bad game yesterday but Kyrie didn't play that well in game 2 either.

[Dupp]

You guys realize curry had outplayed Irving in this series right? 3 out of 4 games. He's played much better defense too.

Who is he defending most of the time? The conversation has shifted to how Kyrie is a force on offense while having to deal with both Klay/Curry. Curry most of the time tails JR or Shumpert.

I don't think it's unrealistic to say when Curry/Klay are forced to defend and expend energy, their offence may suffer a bit. This happened to them last year. JR/Shump/Korver/Deron FINALLY all showed up in g4, and they employed a lot of motion action to wear out the Warriors a bit rather than letting them conserve

This would be a valid point if Kyrie was doing anything significant defensivley. He's been downright awful defensivley most of the series, as always.

Edit- you are right about making curry work defensivley though.

[SFrush]

Kyrie in GS motion offense would be a MVP candidate level player. Curry on the Cavs Iso offense they would have been swept 2 straight years. I'm more confident in Kyrie ability to do what Curry does than the other way around.

You really believe this nonsense? Curry had a great series in the first round upset over Denver in 2013 and he played well in the second round against the Spurs in a tough 6 games series. The following year Curry played well on a team that nearly upset the Clippers in a tough 7 game series. That all happened in Mark Jackson's Iso offense.

[richboy]

Kyrie in GS motion offense would be a MVP candidate level player. Curry on the Cavs Iso offense they would have been swept 2 straight years. I'm more confident in Kyrie ability to do what Curry does than the other way around.

You really believe this nonsense? Curry had a great series in the first round upset over Denver in 2013 and he played well in the second round against the Spurs in a tough 6 games series. The following year Curry played well on a team that nearly upset the Clippers in a tough 7 game series. That all happened in Mark Jackson's Iso offense.

None of it was close to what Kyrie has done this year and last year.

[B-Ball Freak]

Lets see what he can do without Lebron though...top 5 lol

[SFrush]

Kyrie in GS motion offense would be a MVP candidate level player. Curry on the Cavs Iso offense they would have been swept 2 straight years. I'm more confident in Kyrie ability to do what Curry does than the other way around.

You really believe this nonsense? Curry had a great series in the first round upset over Denver in 2013 and he played well in the second round against the Spurs in a tough 6 games series. The following year Curry played well on a team that nearly upset the Clippers in a tough 7 game series. That all happened in Mark Jackson's Iso offense.

None of it was close to what Kyrie has done this year and last year.

It's hardly a similar situation considering Kyrie has never led a team to the playoffs or been in the playoffs without Lebron but that's besides the point. You made it sound like Steph would be completely irrelevant if he was playing Iso ball for the Cavs. I just don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

[Mylie10]

You guys realize curry had outplayed Irving in this series right? 3 out of 4 games. He's played much better defense too.

Who is he defending most of the time? The conversation has shifted to how Kyrie is a force on offense while having to deal with both Klay/Curry. Curry most of the time tails JR or Shumpert.

I don't think it's unrealistic to say when Curry/Klay are forced to defend and expend energy, their offence may suffer a bit. This happened to them last year. JR/Shump/Korver/Deron FINALLY all showed up in g4, and they employed a lot of motion action to wear out the Warriors a bit rather than letting them conserve

Umm, I think the real take away from the game is that the Cavs had an epic record setting shooting night. No need to go any further than that.

[Slade3]

Honestly, I'm not even sure if he's not the greatest player in game.

Well at least you didn't deny he outplayed LBJ in a critical elimination game.

You must be one of those people who think scoring is everything. I'll take 31, 10, 11 and (+-) + 32 over 40, 7, 4 and (+-) +7 any day.

[HotRocks34]

Kyrie in GS motion offense would be a MVP candidate level player.

In all of the multiverse that exists, there is not a single universe within in it in which Kyrie could be a 31+ PER, .300 WS48 player like Curry was in the 2015-16 regular season.

Kyrie isn't capable of that, and probably never will be. No matter what system you put him in, who the coach is, who his teamates are, anything.

Kyrie is great at what he does. And he is slowly starting to expand his game. But he can only do what he does. That's the only way he can play, at least at this point in his career.

[Mylie10]

[list=][/list]

Honestly, I'm not even sure if he's not the greatest player in game.

Well at least you didn't deny he outplayed LBJ in a critical elimination game.

He is not even a top 5 PG. Just because he had 2 great games in a row doesn't make him a top 5 player in the NBA...

Look at his stats for the season...last year's finals...this year's finals...hes the reason the Cavs are alive and breathing right now. Why would I pick Curry over a Kyrie who consistently out performs him in the finals 2 years in a row.

So does anything other than scoring factor into your thinking? Because it seems like you and so many like you, focus so much on scoring and points, that you ignore all of the other many factors that go into proclaiming greatness.

Kyrie is absolutely an amazing finisher. The ability to use his left hand is incredible. His understanding of change of pace, ball spin, and jumping off the wrong foot are fantastic. He's also a really great shooter.

But he's lacking in many other facets of the game to be put into the lofty status, you and others are trying to put on him.

Still he's been great and he does it against solid defense most of the time. However, you must admit he isn't doubled often, he isnt being punched, pushed, and held to the level others must face. If he were playing without LeBron, he would at least have a much more difficult time.

[Dupp]

Stephs really impressed me this series. Seems liek a dumb statement but im not talkign about his amazing scoring thats no surprise but his ability to impact the game in other areas this series has been huge. Especially his rebounding.

[turk3d]

First thing he needs to do is to become the "top" PG. If he can continue to improve his all around game, and becomes more consistent, then perhaps.

[Red_man1]

Not a fan of his, it's ugly when the shots are not falling for him. That's a terrible way to play especially for a "point guard."

[INKtastic]

First thing he needs to do is to become the "top" PG. If he can continue to improve his all around game, and becomes more consistent, then perhaps.

His role on the cavs offense is a 2 guard.

[G35]

#4--You end your weird rebuttal with "Curry is averaging....And Steph is a good defender".... You're just throwing out garbage points now.

If you're so confident about Curry's defense, I'm sure you'd welcome him defending Kyrie then considering Klay has let him average 39 points the last 2 games

People kind of ignore that Curry's defensive stats get padded because he gets to guard the other team's worst offensive player every single night while Thompson, Durant, and Green take on the actual challenging assignments. It's why Thompson has a worse DRPM than Curry despite being worlds better as a defender. He actually has to guard great players every night while Curry guards guys who can't dribble and gets to gamble constantly knowing his team will cover for him if he screws up.

Just look at who guards who in the Finals. The Warriors want no part of Curry on Irving and try to keep him as far away from Irving as possible, but Irving guards Curry damn near every possession.

Well that is true. Wasn't it CP3 saying a few years ago that PG's around the league were mad that they couldn't go back at Curry because the Warriors always put Klay on them. This is nothing new...and I don't see why it is a problem.

As far as this current era of basketball, there is no, "You check your man only".....that died out a while ago. James Harden is the king of hiding on defense and he is probably going to be MVP. The current NBA is all about gaining a mismatch; identify the other teams weak defenders put them into a pick and roll, where they can then be isolated.

So even though Curry hides out on defense (or really any defender) it is not like the Cavaliers have not put him in the blender as well, I can recall several times Curry getting switched onto Lebron and Lebron getting easy baskets. In the playoffs teams are going to try and find every edge they can. You can get away with hiding weak defenders more in the RS.......

[G35]

You guys realize curry had outplayed Irving in this series right? 3 out of 4 games. He's played much better defense too.

Kyrie is not the only star on CLE that is getting outplayed tho, you can't put all the blame on him.....

[Seabass11]

I will continue to ask this question in every Kyrie thread because I think its valid. If the Cavs listed their depth chart as this when LeBron returned...would Kyrie get more respect?
PG LeBron
SG Kyrie
SF JR
PF Love
C TT
I think people get way too hung up on PG in front of his name. His AST/TO ratio needs to improve (2.3) but he's a fairly good playmaker/passer (5.8 AST) for someone who is the SECONDARY ball handler.

IMO this thread is a huge overreaction. I would put Kyrie as a top 15-20 player in the league (closer to 15) but he's only 24 and is already IMO the best all around scorer in the league. You have to appreciate how he seems to turn up his level of play in the biggest moments.

[RingsDontLie]

Honestly, I'm not even sure if he's not the greatest player in game.

Well at least you didn't deny he outplayed LBJ in a critical elimination game.

You must be one of those people who think scoring is everything. I'll take 31, 10, 11 and (+-) + 32 over 40, 7, 4 and (+-) +7 any day.

Yes I know LBJ fans rather have the stats than the W. Stats without context. Kyrie was the driving force of that team in game 4. Great example of why advanced stats are flawed.

Sometimes you need volume scoring to win. There is a reason why you use machine guns in war. Not for bogus stats. Suppressive fire right? A team can't advance without the big gun. Exactly what Kyrie was last night. He overwhelmed Klay and Curry offensively who in turn became non factors offensively. I'd go as far as saying he demoralized Klay and their whole back court. You think GSW felt great about not stopping this short kid that was taking it to the cup scoring every which way possible?

You are so caught up in stats for some reason you lose sight of the dude that demoralized GSW at the onset of the game which led to the team victory. Like I said, Bron fans prefer stats over a win.