Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick

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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1021 » by hookshot199 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:36 pm

Jon1798 wrote:Can someone explain to me how Markell Fultz isn't De'Angelo Russell? They look like the same exact player to me.


Since I suspect that most of us (at least us on the East coast) haven't seen Fultz play - West Coast team, lousy team, no NCAAs - I would look at the nbadraft.net scores for quickness and athleticism. Fultz scored 9 for both out of 10. Russell scored 7. The rest is basically a wash - passing, ball-handling, shooting. But a 20% differential for quickness and athleticism is not insignificant. And we've all had a chance to watch Russell. He isn't quick and he isn't athletic.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1022 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:42 pm

the7boss wrote:Ainge should be pretty sure that Fultz is nothing special to do this trade. .


Eh this is pretty false IYAM. Ainge could think Fultz is a clear #1 pick and still feel he has enough equity from the future's he's getting, plus the fact fultz would be underutilized on his team to make this trade.

I mean the future pick he gets has a significant chance (though its unlikely) of being ranked higher than fultz was in this draft. Even the philly pick could possibly be manu ginobili or draymond or something.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1023 » by Ericb5 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Sixer fan here. I am thrilled with where we are right now, but Ainge is still a ninja. He made this deal because he apparently didn't believe in Fultz.

He will pick someone else that he likes/fits better, and is still in tremendous shape with regard to the future.

Celtics fans that are upset I think are just feeling whiplash of thinking they were going to get Fultz, and now realize that they aren't.

Has there ever been a 53 win team with more high quality draft assets available?

Eventually he will need to consolidate them, but he did it before when he got Allen and Garnett, and I expect that he will do it again.

The Celtics are in great shape.


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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1024 » by OleSchool » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:49 pm

Prez wrote:
Mind_Odyssey wrote:Ainge can't really draft.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAO8X5qW0AAxZYg.jpg

That's terrible.

I'm not defending this move for Boston (undecided right now, time will tell), but in Ainge's defense there's literally just two top lottery picks in that entire list and one of them (Brown) looks pretty promising relative to his draft and the other (Smart) is a disappointment for the 6th pick but is still a solid NBA player with still the upside to become a good starter.


As much as I hate Bos and Ainge you're right.

Need to see the players taken (within 3-5 picks) after to truly judge if he's a bad drafter or not. You're always going to have your outliners, like Greek or Gobert taken 10 to 15 spots later. But I won't fault a GM if a guy turns into stud and they were drafted 10 picks later
NYSixersFan wrote:quite simply, If I were GM, We would have a good young playoff team right now; with cap flexibility going forward


NYSixersFan wrote:I'D BE more then happy to debate you or anyone else on specifics


NYSixersFan wrote:How can I give you specifics? I'm not talking to other GM's
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1025 » by LloydFree » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:53 pm

laploutocratie wrote:Again, disaster trade because Ainge cannot be trusted with anything below a first pick. Terrible drafting record. What a **** time to be a Celtics fan. Sixers fans, congratulations, you just fleeced our team.

Nonsense. Fultz is no superstar. There are 2-3 other players in this draft that are his equal or better. Ainge got over in this deal. He gets the player he wanted and he gets a free early lottery pick for his trouble.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1026 » by OleSchool » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:53 pm

Ericb5 wrote:Sixer fan here. I am thrilled with where we are right now, but Ainge is still a ninja. He made this deal because he apparently didn't believe in Fultz.

He will pick someone else that he likes/fits better, and is still in tremendous shape with regard to the future.

Celtics fans that are upset I think are just feeling whiplash of thinking they were going to get Fultz, and now realize that they aren't.

Has there ever been a 53 win team with more high quality draft assets available?

Eventually he will need to consolidate them, but he did it before when he got Allen and Garnett, and I expect that he will do it again.

The Celtics are in great shape.


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If I remember correctly people though Ainge overpaid for Allen and the GM's who gave him KG and the Nets picks are no loner in the league (BK) or are executives (McHale). Plus Ainge has a rep now so those godfather trades maybe over for him cause GM's are too leery trading with him.

That being said, Ainge may still be able to get a player like PG for under-market value because of the situation he's in but, that is due to PG's situation more than Ainge being this great negotiator.
NYSixersFan wrote:quite simply, If I were GM, We would have a good young playoff team right now; with cap flexibility going forward


NYSixersFan wrote:I'D BE more then happy to debate you or anyone else on specifics


NYSixersFan wrote:How can I give you specifics? I'm not talking to other GM's
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1027 » by azcatz11 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:01 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
Jon1798 wrote:Can someone explain to me how Markell Fultz isn't De'Angelo Russell? They look like the same exact player to me.


Since I suspect that most of us (at least us on the East coast) haven't seen Fultz play - West Coast team, lousy team, no NCAAs - I would look at the nbadraft.net scores for quickness and athleticism. Fultz scored 9 for both out of 10. Russell scored 7. The rest is basically a wash - passing, ball-handling, shooting. But a 20% differential for quickness and athleticism is not insignificant. And we've all had a chance to watch Russell. He isn't quick and he isn't athletic.


Yes, Fultz is way more athletic than Russell. He's also super long. A few other posters have mentioned low motor, which is true. It looked like he was coasting at times last year. He was so dominant over his competition that he didn't have to put out full effort. He could get by at 70% and still get to the hoop with ease.

Fultz can def create his own shot off the dribble though. He can create even from beyond the 3 pt line.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1028 » by StojkoVrankovic » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:12 pm

Zombiesonics wrote:Boston is for sure built for long term dominance . Zizic is a monster, could be a star .

Celtic fans are VERY excited about the kid, not sure most folks realize that we have him coming over. He fills a big need for us
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Re: RE: Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1029 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:15 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:Yes it's 2 spots but the likelihood of drafting an all star at 1 is significantly higher than 3rd. Could be the difference between Irving and Kanter.

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I know but I don't think that will be the case in this years draft...In 2011 Kyrie was the clear cut number 1 pick
then a gap between Williams and Kanter.


A bit of revisionist history. Derrick Williams was very highly touted.
Fultz is the consensus number 1 this year. Since 2000, the only non-allstars picked number 1 were:
- Kwame
- Bargnani (very weak draft, no consensus)
- Oden (injuries, looked like a fantastic player)
- Bennett (again weak draft, awful pick by the Cavs)

By all accounts, this is not a weak draft and Fultz doesn't have much injury history.


CONSENSUS NUMBER ONE? YOU CALLING FULTZ A CONSENSUS #1? ARE YOU CRAZY? DO YOU KNOW WHAT CONSENSUS MEANS? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CALL THIS YOUNG MAN, THIS YOUNG MAN ON A 9-22 TEAM A CONSENSUS NUMBER ONE PICK? STEPHEN A. SMITH DOESN'T THINK THIS MAN SHOULD GO IN THE FIRST SLOT. STEPHEN A LIKES JOSH JACKSON. I GUESS STEPHEN A SMITH ISN'T PART OF YOUR SO CALLED HIVE MIND CONSENSUS. I AM SO MAD RIGHT NOW. THIS YOUNG MAN, JOSH JACKSON, HAS THE MOST UPSIDE IN THE DRAFT!!!

I'M NOT EVEN SURE AINGE THINKS HE'S (meaning fultz) THE BEST PICK FOR HIS TEAM IN THIS DRAFT, YOUNG MAN. AND YOU'RE TALKING CONSENSUS MAN, CONSENSUS? PRACTICE?

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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1030 » by Ericb5 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:19 pm

OleSchool wrote:
Ericb5 wrote:Sixer fan here. I am thrilled with where we are right now, but Ainge is still a ninja. He made this deal because he apparently didn't believe in Fultz.

He will pick someone else that he likes/fits better, and is still in tremendous shape with regard to the future.

Celtics fans that are upset I think are just feeling whiplash of thinking they were going to get Fultz, and now realize that they aren't.

Has there ever been a 53 win team with more high quality draft assets available?

Eventually he will need to consolidate them, but he did it before when he got Allen and Garnett, and I expect that he will do it again.

The Celtics are in great shape.


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If I remember correctly people though Ainge overpaid for Allen and the GM's who gave him KG and the Nets picks are no loner in the league (BK) or are executives (McHale). Plus Ainge has a rep now so those godfather trades maybe over for him cause GM's are too leery trading with him.

That being said, Ainge may still be able to get a player like PG for under-market value because of the situation he's in but, that is due to PG's situation more than Ainge being this great negotiator.


Not saying that he is a great negotiator. He is a great strategist, and executor.


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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1031 » by righterwriter » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:19 pm

Don't know why people would be calling into question the Sixers scouting department compared to the Celtics scouting department. One side has hit mostly home runs on it's many picks the last three years while the other has been dubious, at best, with it's many picks.

Fultz reminds me of James Harden. He's a heck of a player, low motor or not. It's hard to find a better guard prospect over the last several drafts.

There is talent at the #3 spot, but one has to wonder how it fits on Boston's roster. They need a big man or a guard that matches well with IT (provided they want to go forward with him). All the guys that are slotted at #3 seemingly do not match-- being ball dominant PGs or athletic SFs. I don't see a good match to fit right in, although Ball might be the best possibility to get minutes right away due to his lack of need to have the ball in his hands to be good, but he also is not a good defender similar to IT.

Unless there's a Jimmy Butler trade about to happen, this just looks like Trader Danny indulging himself again by not committing to one direction. I think that's bad for the team, particularly as you have IT going into a contract season and a bunch of young guys and vets unsure if the team is looking to win now or turnover the roster to rebuild. Putting it off another year just prolongs the inevitable.

If things don't workout (IT not re-signing and being lost for nothing) and the team is a collection of short guards and athletic, raw SFs then I think it could be bad.
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Re: RE: Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1032 » by Scott Hall » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:22 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:Yes it's 2 spots but the likelihood of drafting an all star at 1 is significantly higher than 3rd. Could be the difference between Irving and Kanter.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using RealGM mobile app


I know but I don't think that will be the case in this years draft...In 2011 Kyrie was the clear cut number 1 pick
then a gap between Williams and Kanter.


A bit of revisionist history. Derrick Williams was very highly touted.
Fultz is the consensus number 1 this year. Since 2000, the only non-allstars picked number 1 were:
- Kwame
- Bargnani (very weak draft, no consensus)
- Oden (injuries, looked like a fantastic player)
- Bennett (again weak draft, awful pick by the Cavs)

By all accounts, this is not a weak draft and Fultz doesn't have much injury history.


It's not revisionist history... Kyrie was the clear number 1 overall pick and in a tier all by himself...

Fultz isn't the consensus number 1 pick Ball was considered neck and neck with him for most of the year
until a few weeks ago and concerns about his dad and he didn't want to work out with Boston took him
out of the running. Boston isn't that enamored with Fultz and felt comfortable trading back and Jackson is
also a very highly touted prospect.

It's not that Fultz is bad it's that Ball and Jackson aren't that far behind him in a lot of peoples minds
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1033 » by eskimo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:38 pm

gipper08 wrote:
Jon1798 wrote:Can someone explain to me how Markell Fultz isn't De'Angelo Russell? They look like the same exact player to me.


They are very similar to a degree. Both DAR and Fultz imposed their will and dominated college basketball; this caused them both to be bigly overrated.

DAR, however, is a scavenger and not an alpha hunter. This allows him to be a bust yet somewhat functional role player. Fultz will be boom or bust. Fultz has an alpha hunter game yet I don't think he is good enough for that game to translate. Fultz will not be able to be a solid role player.If he cannot TOTALLY impose his will I don't see him finding a niche. Best case is Fultz is Lillard. Most likely case is Fultz busts.

Jackson is the safest player in this draft by miles.


Jackson is very unsafe in my own mind because he isn't going to be an elite defender, he isn't going to be a great offense initiator and I have grave reservations about his shooting. He looks like a glue guy, 4th best player on a great team type, poor man's Iguodala to me.

I disagree that Fultz's best case is Lillard because of his production and efficiency at a young age as well as a much better physical frame. I think his best case is closer to Wade/Harden but who knows if he'll reach his ceiling.

History of the top pick is very few non-injury busts amongst players who played college ball. There's Anthony Bennett but he was an out of left field pick in a historically weak Lottery (no All-Stars or even near All-Stars yet) - Michael Olowokandi was the last bust who met those criteria back in 1998.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1034 » by hookshot199 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:39 pm

azcatz11 wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
Jon1798 wrote:Can someone explain to me how Markell Fultz isn't De'Angelo Russell? They look like the same exact player to me.


Since I suspect that most of us (at least us on the East coast) haven't seen Fultz play - West Coast team, lousy team, no NCAAs - I would look at the nbadraft.net scores for quickness and athleticism. Fultz scored 9 for both out of 10. Russell scored 7. The rest is basically a wash - passing, ball-handling, shooting. But a 20% differential for quickness and athleticism is not insignificant. And we've all had a chance to watch Russell. He isn't quick and he isn't athletic.


Yes, Fultz is way more athletic than Russell. He's also super long. A few other posters have mentioned low motor, which is true. It looked like he was coasting at times last year. He was so dominant over his competition that he didn't have to put out full effort. He could get by at 70% and still get to the hoop with ease.

Fultz can def create his own shot off the dribble though. He can create even from beyond the 3 pt line.


Thanks. I'm still curious when Bodner eventually checks in if he meant 3 and 4 protected or 2, 3, 4 & 5.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1035 » by Curmudgeon » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:40 pm

Duplicate deleted.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1036 » by Curmudgeon » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:41 pm

eskimo wrote:
History of the top pick is very few non-injury busts amongst players who played college ball. There's Anthony Bennett but he was an out of left field pick in a historically weak Lottery (no All-Stars or even near All-Stars yet) - Michael Olowokandi was the last bust who met those criteria back in 1998.


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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1037 » by dakomish23 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:44 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
eskimo wrote:
History of the top pick is very few non-injury busts amongst players who played college ball. There's Anthony Bennett but he was an out of left field pick in a historically weak Lottery (no All-Stars or even near All-Stars yet) - Michael Olowokandi was the last bust who met those criteria back in 1998.


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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1038 » by Tinseltown » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:50 pm

If this trade happens immediately after the lottery then I think most Celtics fans would be thrilled with the return they're getting to move back two spots in a strong draft. But after a month of falling in love with Fultz and building him up as by far the best prospect in the draft (this was not considered true on lottery night), it's easy to see why they're not thrilled with now getting a player that they've been **** on for a few weeks.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1039 » by Curmudgeon » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:53 pm

I'm sure the Celtics did their best to build up Fultz as a total stud.
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Re: Sixers and Celtics in serious talks about potential trade involving #1 pick 

Post#1040 » by mademan » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:54 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:I'm sure the Celtics did their best to build up Fultz as a total stud.


I mean every team has access to him, his tapes and has legions of scouts/ talent evaluators to comb through his entire career. Whatever the Celts think of him is almost irrelevant to the Sixers.

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