Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

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Will Kyrie be traded by the beginning of the season?

Yes
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No
144
29%
Not suer
56
11%
 
Total votes: 504

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Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued 

Post#1 » by HotRocks34 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:24 pm

jbk1234 wrote:To do this now goes beyond selfish.



There is the selfish element of it, for sure, but there's also the "overvaluing of self" element about it that makes it a combination of sad and funny at the same time.

Kyrie isn't Kobe, isn't Westbrook, isn't Harden and so forth. He's extremely good at what he does well, and he's quite poor at what he does not do well.

Two pieces came out today that put things into better perspective. One is from Zach Lowe and one is from 538. I made posts about each article in another thread.

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As Lowe said, it's almost unheard of for a player to walk out on a Top 3 All Time talent like LeBron. It doesn't happen. Particularly for someone of Kyrie's limited ability. It would be like Magic walking out on Kareem, except Magic >>>> Kyrie.

In the subjective world of the "Someone stood up to LeBron, yay!" crowd, what Kyrie is doing makes sense. From almost any other perspective, it makes no sense. Not from either a timing or a likelihood-of-success angle.

What the 538 article mentions, in contrast to the concept that LeBron hinders Kyrie, is that LeBron play style actually seems to help Kyrie be at his best. And that apparent truism is reflected in the data that Lowe presents as regards what Kyrie does when LeBron leaves the floor. As well as the data of how the Cavs perform when LeBron sits out games.

There is a tremendous amount of risk for Kyrie in what he's doing. I know Kyrie has regretted how he's handled decisions in his career before (I'm thinking of his and Mike Brown's relationship here), and my guess is he'll end up regretting this choice (at least how he's handling it) as well.

Also a podcast

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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#2 » by YaBoyKD » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:25 pm

omerome wrote:
YaBoyKD wrote:
omerome wrote:Huh? What you say contradicts what you say later. The Cavs won a championship in the last five years. Won the lottery multiple times in the last 15 years and you are saying that franchise has been terribly unlucky? That's pretty lucky to me.

Most fans of their respective teams would be happy with your results.

Cavs got the #1 pick 3 of 4 years and they're unlucky?

That's what I'm saying. They are far from unlucky.

Haha sorry I was agreeing with you. I think I quoted the wrong post.

I think an unlucky franchise would be the Portland Trailblazers. Bill Walton, Sam Bowie, Greg Oden and Brandon Roy, all were supposed to be our franchise player and had promising starts to their career before knee injuries destroyed their ability to play.

Cavs were just poorly run for a few decades.
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Re: Just floated on Fox Sports radio: Kyrie for CP3 - who turns in down? 

Post#3 » by BallerTalk » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:25 pm

lakerz12 wrote:One is entering their prime, the other is exiting it.

If I'm the Rockets and the contracts don't cause any issues, I'm taking this in a heartbeat.


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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#4 » by ___Rand___ » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:28 pm

This crap is going to be going all the entire summer isn't it. Just get the bloody trade done already.
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Re: Just floated on Fox Sports radio: Kyrie for CP3 - who turns in down? 

Post#5 » by phanman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:29 pm

Bobalob wrote:Rockets wouldnt do it for PR and convenience reason, but of course you would ideally. He's younger and can you imagine if Steph Curry HAS to guard either Kyrie or Hrden?

As it stands he has to guard CP3 but Paul's boring ass wont even take advantage

I am about 99% sure that Curry would get hidden on whoever is employed at the SF position in either Ariza or Tucker... two guys who primarily stand on the 3pt line and wait for the kick out. Meaning Klay on CP3 and KD on Durant. That said Curry actually plays Paul fairly well so they could just decide on just defending him straight up.

Can easily see the intrigue on both sides though. Kyrie has 2 years guaranteed vs Paul's 1 year. Max contract dollars will be slightly less than Paul's and since he is only 25yo he will be guaranteed to still be a ultra effective player at the tail-end of that 4/5 year deal.

Even with the negative publicity that would come Houston's way, I am sure Paul would have absolutely no issues with teaming up with Bron/Love in the Eastern Conference. Trade does work straight up given that Cleveland still has some TPE at its disposal to make Paul's 24.5 and Kyrie's 18.8 match.
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Re: Kings offer De'Aaron Fox for Kyrie 

Post#6 » by OptionZero » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:29 pm

paulbball wrote:
OptionZero wrote:The Kings could theoretically make the money work with Koufos, Fox and a couple smaller guys

The problem with this is CLE will want George Hill AND fox as a PG duo for the future and present

kyrie's trade request really killed them bc of the timing


No, Irving requested a trade pre-draft. This request was leaked recently (perhaps by LeBron's camp according to pro-Irving sources). The request was NOT from this week.


Reports put the request "a week ago" from this past Friday. I haven't read anything about that suggested it was pre-draft (which was in June)
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#7 » by LivingLegend » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:30 pm

gino_giode wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
gino_giode wrote:Why are so many "Cavs" fans **** on Kyrie right now? Anybody with common sense can see LeBron brings with him a soap opera of problems. LeBron is passive aggressive and he's a hypocrite. He'll crap all over his teammates for not trying hard, but willing to take a seat on the bench in the middle of the game just cuz.

Kyrie simply doesn't want his career to be orchestrated by LeBron, and he's willing to forgo a sure chance of reaching the playoffs and even the finals to pursue his dream his own way. Call it an ego trip or whatever, but it's at least refreshing that some guys won't gargle LeBron's nutsack.

Kyrie was willing to lead a young, rebuilding team and recruit stars to play with him. Then in 11 days it changed to whatever LeBron wants he gets. It's unfortunate that LeBron just wants old washed up shooters who play no defense and threw out every young prospect and draft pick to do so. This team was a joke in the finals despite having a great offense all year, and it only gets worse with age.

Anyways, Cavs fans should be happy Kyrie is leaving because if LeBron is as narcissistic as we all think, he'll stay in Cleveland to counter all the chatter of him to LA being a reason Kyrie wants out now.


For the simple fact that everybody is glossing over for some reason. HES UNDER CONTRACT.

Like I have said in 10 previous posts, not all Cavs fans would hate Kyrie if he just decided to go his separate way after his contract expired and he was a FA. His words and response would be 100% understandable at that junction. The fact that hes causing internal drama when he is smack dab in the middle of a 5 year deal he signed by demanding a trade away from a title contender is the frustrating part to Cavs fans.

HIS talent was a major reason why LeBron came back in the first place and now hes bolting because he has a equally large ego about his self worth as LeBron does basically ending the Cavs fans 5-7 year awesome window of championship runs prematurely at 3 years.


But Kyrie signed his contract before LeBron made his move. He didn't anticipate this drama. I'm sure he was happy to learn how to be successful and lead a team. KLove isn't complaining because he had a chance to evaluate what sacrifices he's willing to make in order to win, and THEN he re-signed. Kyrie had no choice/say in the matter but he soldier'd on anyways.

Same thing happened with Blatt. He signed on with acknowledgement from the front office that he was an experiment, but was low risk high reward for a rebuilding team. Then LeBron comes and all experimentation with Euro style player movement went out the door. Granted he wasn't ready for the NBA, much less handling super egos on his team, but he was on contract and did the best he could. Didn't stop LeBron from starting a coup against him.

But the straw breaking moment for Kyrie was being devalued by the organization under LeBron's direction in offering him up in trades. Again, Kyrie signed his contract being told "You're the man...we love you here....we'll build around you"---->3 years later "hey Kyrie, we might trade you because LeBron can't win with you".

If Cavs fans should be pissed at anything, be pissed at LeBron for starting this drama (again, this has been going on since he came back--ie: subtweeting, or just plain screaming at people on the court) and not understanding how to build a team long term. Look hard at the Cavs when he first left, they were a joke. The only team that opposed his demands were Pat Riley and the Heat and you can see they rebuilt themselves within a couple of years despite losing their 2 other all stars.



Sounds like your upset at the wrong person and are spewing your hatred for LeBron because you see a tiny crack. Fact is--he has been to 7 straight NBA Finals with multiple rings to show for it and is a top 3 player of all time. Maybe it might be wise to assume he knows exactly what he is doing when he yells at people and subtweets to gain a rise out of that person and more people should follow his lead.

Your also extremely off base with him being in trade rumors. He has never been in a single trade rumor. His name came up once the season was over when one team asked and Griffin shot it down. Kevin Love on the other hand has had his name swirling all over the place for 2 years and he hasnt said a single word and actually altered his game from the 3pt line to do whats best for the team. The team was built around Kyries iso-ball and he jacks up more shots than LeBron does....and hes the one complaining about fit and asking for trades?
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#8 » by OsuCavsfan103 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:34 pm

All the excuses for Kyrie on here are pathetic. He is a player who agreed to a long-term deal, was given a lot more notoriety thanks in large part to LeBron, got a ring, and all of a sudden a month after talking to be back at it in effort to avenge their finals loss next year he cries he wants out, 3 years early (3rd yrd plyr option)

KYRIE- We dealt with a [expletive] ton of adversity, excuse my language, but, I mean, the daily evolution of what can you accomplish on a day-to-day basis when you are around so many different individuals that makes up an organization, I mean, there's so many moving parts and I couldn't be more proud to be part of an even better organization, including my teammates that I'm around constantly every day.


KYRIE- They beat us, but I'm pretty sure we'll be back and we'll be ready to battle again


Two things from Kyrie said about 3 weeks prior to him all of a sudden privately telling CLE he wants out supposedly.
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Re: Kings offer De'Aaron Fox for Kyrie 

Post#9 » by Optms » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:34 pm

paulbball wrote:People are overrating the hell out of young guards. Outside of Fultz and Ball, no one drafted within in the last 6 year is as good and/or has the ceiling to be substantially better than Irving.

Actually the last guards drafted unquestionably better than Irving are Harden and Curry in 2009 and perhaps Wall in 2010. no one since 2011 has been unquestionably better than Irving.

People are acting like developing your young Frank/Booker/Fox/etc will likely net you an Irving. LMAO.

Knicks should mortgage the house for Irving (anyone except for KP).


Disagree.

Being better than Irving won't be particularly hard. Fox, DSJ and possibly even a few others have a shot to be as good or better than Kyrie. Simply because he's not that great to begin with. He is excellent next to Lebron, who in turn masks all of the pitfalls and cons of his game. If anything, Kyrie Irving is the overrated one here. And John Wall >>>>>>>>> Anyone on Cleveland outside of Lebron
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#10 » by LivingLegend » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:42 pm

OsuCavsfan103 wrote:All the excuses for Kyrie on here are pathetic. He is a player who agreed to a long-term deal, was given a lot more notoriety thanks in large part to LeBron, got a ring, and all of a sudden a month after talking to be back at it in effort to avenge their finals loss next year he cries he wants out, 3 years early (3rd yrd plyr option)

KYRIE- We dealt with a [expletive] ton of adversity, excuse my language, but, I mean, the daily evolution of what can you accomplish on a day-to-day basis when you are around so many different individuals that makes up an organization, I mean, there's so many moving parts and I couldn't be more proud to be part of an even better organization, including my teammates that I'm around constantly every day.


KYRIE- They beat us, but I'm pretty sure we'll be back and we'll be ready to battle again


Two things from Kyrie said about 3 weeks prior to him all of a sudden privately telling CLE he wants out supposedly.


Yea, I think it goes back to the whole thing Brian Windhorst said. Kyrie thinks he is on the same level as LeBron--which any rational fan can say is false. But nonetheless, HE thinks he is in that tier with sort of false basketball self worth. He has always said the right thing in press conferences but you could always tell he is a little bit of a weird guy. Sort of a loner that does his own thing and thinks differently.

He thinks the earth is flat and wants to start a new community of people on empty farmland for godsakes and has always claimed that his existence is for far greater things than basketball. He also said his close friends think he will retire in his prime like Lauryn Hill did. The dudes different.

Maybe Kyrie doesnt really plan on playing past 30 and wants to play under one more 5 year contract and see what he can do by himself before calling it quits. He has already accomplished everything and he almost feels like a old 25 year old.
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#11 » by ISayshowmee » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:43 pm

Just scratching my head on this.....

Why Robin Kyrie did not address his issues with Batman Lebron ? I take both of them wanted to win.....it is my belief this could have been resolved if these two just talked face to face.

Can Gilbert get these guys to talk ?
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#12 » by Hogified05 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:51 pm

Dear New Orleans. I am no fan of yours. But you better pick up the phone and ask Cleveland who do they want besides AD. Kyrie in Gentry's offense with AD would be deadly. Cousins plus anyone has got to give Cleveland at least some kind of interest.
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Re: Just floated on Fox Sports radio: Kyrie for CP3 - who turns in down? 

Post#13 » by RightToCensor » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:53 pm

Houston. We want no part of Irving and Harden on the same team playing together for extended minutes.
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#14 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:53 pm

___Rand___ wrote:This crap is going to be going all the entire summer isn't it. Just get the bloody trade done already.


Amen said every Cavs fan in the country.
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Re: Kings offer De'Aaron Fox for Kyrie 

Post#15 » by Kings2013 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:54 pm

XXBKXX wrote:Can't believe people here saying they would NOT trade fox for Kyrie if given the opportunity. Did Fox all of a sudden develop a shot? Kyrie is legit and only 25. He would be the crown gem for the young rebuild movement in sac.


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Why would they trade for someone who won't be on the team after two years, when next year will be a rebuild year, and Hill has as good of advanced stats?

It becomes a discussion if somehow the Kings felt good about him long term, which is unlikely. Other teams actually in the hunt for Kyrie have a belief he will re-sign
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#16 » by gino_giode » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:55 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
gino_giode wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
For the simple fact that everybody is glossing over for some reason. HES UNDER CONTRACT.

Like I have said in 10 previous posts, not all Cavs fans would hate Kyrie if he just decided to go his separate way after his contract expired and he was a FA. His words and response would be 100% understandable at that junction. The fact that hes causing internal drama when he is smack dab in the middle of a 5 year deal he signed by demanding a trade away from a title contender is the frustrating part to Cavs fans.

HIS talent was a major reason why LeBron came back in the first place and now hes bolting because he has a equally large ego about his self worth as LeBron does basically ending the Cavs fans 5-7 year awesome window of championship runs prematurely at 3 years.


But Kyrie signed his contract before LeBron made his move. He didn't anticipate this drama. I'm sure he was happy to learn how to be successful and lead a team. KLove isn't complaining because he had a chance to evaluate what sacrifices he's willing to make in order to win, and THEN he re-signed. Kyrie had no choice/say in the matter but he soldier'd on anyways.

Same thing happened with Blatt. He signed on with acknowledgement from the front office that he was an experiment, but was low risk high reward for a rebuilding team. Then LeBron comes and all experimentation with Euro style player movement went out the door. Granted he wasn't ready for the NBA, much less handling super egos on his team, but he was on contract and did the best he could. Didn't stop LeBron from starting a coup against him.

But the straw breaking moment for Kyrie was being devalued by the organization under LeBron's direction in offering him up in trades. Again, Kyrie signed his contract being told "You're the man...we love you here....we'll build around you"---->3 years later "hey Kyrie, we might trade you because LeBron can't win with you".

If Cavs fans should be pissed at anything, be pissed at LeBron for starting this drama (again, this has been going on since he came back--ie: subtweeting, or just plain screaming at people on the court) and not understanding how to build a team long term. Look hard at the Cavs when he first left, they were a joke. The only team that opposed his demands were Pat Riley and the Heat and you can see they rebuilt themselves within a couple of years despite losing their 2 other all stars.



Sounds like your upset at the wrong person and are spewing your hatred for LeBron because you see a tiny crack. Fact is--he has been to 7 straight NBA Finals with multiple rings to show for it and is a top 3 player of all time. Maybe it might be wise to assume he knows exactly what he is doing when he yells at people and subtweets to gain a rise out of that person and more people should follow his lead.

Your also extremely off base with him being in trade rumors. He has never been in a single trade rumor. His name came up once the season was over when one team asked and Griffin shot it down. Kevin Love on the other hand has had his name swirling all over the place for 2 years and he hasnt said a single word and actually altered his game from the 3pt line to do whats best for the team. The team was built around Kyries iso-ball and he jacks up more shots than LeBron does....and hes the one complaining about fit and asking for trades?


"You're" just for "your" own sake.

Anyways, Kyrie's name was definitely floated for the PG trade and there was a trade in place for Bledsoe right before the draft. Gilbert wanted it, Griffin didn't.

And like I said, KLove made the conscious decision to come back and he knew what kind of baggage that comes with. Plus he's a bit older than Kyrie and has had more years failing to make the playoffs. To him sacrificing his game was for the good.

That's different than telling Kyrie one thing when he re-signs to all of a sudden your opinion doesn't matter and you're expendable 1 year after you helped bring the only championship to this franchise.
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Re: Should / would Boston consider a Isaiah Thomas and Kyrie Irving trade? 

Post#17 » by gino_giode » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:00 pm

Froob wrote:Kyrie is better and will age better but it's funny that neither are good defenders but only IT gets **** for it. IT tore up John Wall in the playoffs who is supposed to be a shutdown defender.


Kyrie gets **** on for his defense ALL the time. IT just gets **** on for being so short as if opposing PGs are passing it right over his head routinely.

I think IT having Avery to check the opposing wing/PG really helped him because I rarely heard about ITs defense. Granted I only watched some of their nationally televised games and in the playoffs.
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#18 » by RCM88x » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:03 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
___Rand___ wrote:This crap is going to be going all the entire summer isn't it. Just get the bloody trade done already.


Amen said every Cavs fan in the country.


There is going to be drama no matter what. If you think it ends with a trade you're naive.
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Re: Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30 

Post#19 » by OsuCavsfan103 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:08 pm

So the cats out of the bag now, so when is Kyrie the coward going to go on record and give us his thoughts on things? I want to hear what his reasoning is out of his mouth, which I won't hold me breathe for even though it's no secret anymore he wants out so he might as well just face it.
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Re: Kings offer De'Aaron Fox for Kyrie 

Post#20 » by Bobalob » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:12 pm

Optms wrote:
paulbball wrote:People are overrating the hell out of young guards. Outside of Fultz and Ball, no one drafted within in the last 6 year is as good and/or has the ceiling to be substantially better than Irving.

Actually the last guards drafted unquestionably better than Irving are Harden and Curry in 2009 and perhaps Wall in 2010. no one since 2011 has been unquestionably better than Irving.

People are acting like developing your young Frank/Booker/Fox/etc will likely net you an Irving. LMAO.

Knicks should mortgage the house for Irving (anyone except for KP).


Disagree.

Being better than Irving won't be particularly hard. Fox, DSJ and possibly even a few others have a shot to be as good or better than Kyrie. Simply because he's not that great to begin with. He is excellent next to Lebron, who in turn masks all of the pitfalls and cons of his game. If anything, Kyrie Irving is the overrated one here. And John Wall >>>>>>>>> Anyone on Cleveland outside of Lebron


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