How good is Jokic? [Poll added]

[Rashoismydad]

Now you are just making stuff up. Jokic assists per 100 possessions including his stretch of 20ish games (28% !) where he wasn't playing his role of point center is 8.6. Divac's career average was 5.3, most of the seasons he had around that with one season of 9.6. Miller had 3.6 with best season of 5.9. Garnet had 5.7 with 8 as highest.

I love when the stat cultists cant read stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millebr01.html

Second time now I caught the stat cultists lying. Jokics 20PPG (17.7) and 35-36% from 3 (25.9) after the all star break being the first. Although I havent dug into it too much, so I wouldnt be surprised if there was more.

Sad.

Anyway, im gonna go eat a sandwich. Watching you guys perform textual acrobatics has me hungry. Better luck tomorrow.

[Alatan]

I stand firm by my belief that if put in an offense that takes advantage of it, there have been and are many big men who could post big assist numbers. I believe KAT to be one of them after watching him for 2 years and seeing the careers of all the others I have mentioned previously. Like I said before, KATs 5+ APG average against the nuggets isnt an accident, its him flat out showing you what I am saying is true.

You base your case that Towns can post same assist numbers (I wont even go into playmaking) as Jokic on 2 games where he averaged 10 (his career high) and 7 with 3 and 6 turnovers. Then i can say Jokic can average 28.5 ppg by taking his two games against Charlote.

[Alatan]

I stand firm by my belief that if put in an offense that takes advantage of it, there have been and are many big men who could post big assist numbers. I believe KAT to be one of them after watching him for 2 years and seeing the careers of all the others I have mentioned previously. Like I said before, KATs 5+ APG average against the nuggets isnt an accident, its him flat out showing you what I am saying is true.

You base your case that Towns can post same assist numbers (I wont even go into playmaking) as Jokic on 2 games where he put up 10 (his career high) and 7 with 3 and 6 turnovers. Then i can say Jokic can average 28.5 ppg by taking his two games against Charlote.

[Johnny Firpo]

And he puts in the gif, in which the coach bags the ref to throw the towel for his own boxer, Apollo. LMAO. Come on, you aqre not that badly beaten, you can still get up. No one lied, dude, I simply checked ESPN game logs and calculated it based on that, apparently was a little off. Doesn't change any of our arguments, most of which you refused to counter btw. But then again, you couldn't, because you are obviously wrong, and it is hilarous how you think you are winning, with that gif which you use in the wrong context.

[Rashoismydad]

I stand firm by my belief that if put in an offense that takes advantage of it, there have been and are many big men who could post big assist numbers. I believe KAT to be one of them after watching him for 2 years and seeing the careers of all the others I have mentioned previously. Like I said before, KATs 5+ APG average against the nuggets isnt an accident, its him flat out showing you what I am saying is true.

You base your case that Towns can post same assist numbers (I wont even go into playmaking) as Jokic on 2 games where he averaged 10 (his career high) and 7 with 3 and 6 turnovers. Then i can say Jokic can average 28.5 ppg by taking his two games against Charlote.

It was 4 games with averages of 5.3 assists to 2.8 TOs.

More stat cultists who are incapable of accurately reading stats.

[Rashoismydad]

And he puts in the gif, in which the coach bags the ref to throw the towel for his own boxer, Apollo. LMAO. Come on, you aqre not that badly beaten, you can still get up. No one lied, dude, I simply checked ESPN game logs and calculated it based on that, apparently was a little off. Doesn't change any of our arguments, most of which you refused to counter btw. But then again, you couldn't, because you are obviously wrong, and it is hilarous how you think you are winning, with that gif which you use in the wrong context.

Apparently the stat cultists are unaware that right on the ESPN player stat page they list pre and post ASB stats. For being so stat oriented you guys sure are bad at accurately presenting them.

I guess I shouldnt be surprised you need to twist the intent of the gif, you are the kind of padded room inhabitants who consider HIV- to be some unicorn HOF talent Magic/Dirk hybrid.

You are arguing for Brandon Roy, I am arguing for Kevin Durant. Cya in a few years to laugh.

[Screwston]

C with no D is a fools gold unless he's putting up ridiculous numbers offensively (even then I'm skeptical) not freaking 16 ppg. Would rather have Ben Wallace than Brook Lopez every time.

Anybody would rather have Ben Wallace than Brook Lopez, duh. Your problem is not realizing that Jokic was two tiers above the best version of Lopez... in his rookie season, never mind his sophomore. Come on guys, you either need to be educated on him, or if you have a bias, that's totally fine, but in that case some better trolling would be appreciated. Lead us along the way, throw some crumbs that we can eat up, and then bamm, shut the door. You can't just start with dumb statements like that, and expect to build up tension. It's just not gonna happen.

Not just Brook, pretty much any C that puts up around 20 with no D. No D for a C is hard to make up, because they're too important defensively. Jokic is just horrific on that end, dude looks like Kanter on defense, just lost.

[Johnny Firpo]

Apparently the stat cultists are unaware that right on the ESPN player stat page they list pre and post ASB stats. For being so stat oriented you guys sure are bad at accurately presenting them.

I guess I shouldnt be surprised you need to twist the intent of the gif, you are the kind of padded room inhabitants who consider HIV- to be some unicorn HOF talent Magic/Dirk hybrid.

You are arguing for Brandon Roy, I am arguing for Kevin Durant. Cya in a few years to laugh.

Dude, that was pretty weak from you, I honestly expected something much better. You are a talented trash talker/troll for sure, no joke. You are still eating and that's why you underperformed here?

[Alatan]

Now you are just making stuff up. Jokic assists per 100 possessions including his stretch of 20ish games (28% !) where he wasn't playing his role of point center is 8.6. Divac's career average was 5.3, most of the seasons he had around that with one season of 9.6. Miller had 3.6 with best season of 5.9. Garnet had 5.7 with 8 as highest.

I love when the stat cultists cant read stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millebr01.html

Second time now I caught the stat cultists lying. Jokics 20PPG (17.7) and 35-36% from 3 (25.9) after the all star break being the first. Although I havent dug into it too much, so I wouldnt be surprised if there was more.

Sad.

Anyway, im gonna go eat a sandwich. Watching you guys perform textual acrobatics has me hungry. Better luck tomorrow.

Ah yeah i've accidentally put his per 36 numbers instead of per 100 possessions because the page was scrolled up. Quick call the inquisition! His actual numbers were 5.2 with the best year of 8.5 witch is still worse than Jokic's muddied 8.6 season.

[Johnny Firpo]

Not just Brook, pretty much any C that puts up around 20 with no D. No D for a C is hard to make up, because they're too important defensively. Jokic is just horrific on that end, dude looks like Kanter on defense, just lost.

Jokic is not a bad defender, he is just a bad shot blocker. He is easily a better defender than Towns, who is horrific. And I'm honestly not trolling our friend here. As a Rubio fan, I have watched Minny a lot. Towns is a fantastic offensive player, he is kind of like a Shaq/Dirk hybrid, amazing, once in a lifetime scorer, but he is a pitiful defender at this point. Jokic is much better at being in the right position, that shows in the advanced stats. Jokic is actually an average defender overall, just not a shotblocker, and that simply confuses the casual fans, no offense.

[Alatan]

I stand firm by my belief that if put in an offense that takes advantage of it, there have been and are many big men who could post big assist numbers. I believe KAT to be one of them after watching him for 2 years and seeing the careers of all the others I have mentioned previously. Like I said before, KATs 5+ APG average against the nuggets isnt an accident, its him flat out showing you what I am saying is true.

You base your case that Towns can post same assist numbers (I wont even go into playmaking) as Jokic on 2 games where he averaged 10 (his career high) and 7 with 3 and 6 turnovers. Then i can say Jokic can average 28.5 ppg by taking his two games against Charlote.

It was 4 games with averages of 5.3 assists to 2.8 TOs.

More stat cultists who are incapable of accurately reading stats.

He was 2 assists and 2 turnovers on the other two games. You want 4 games ? OK, two games against Indiana and two against New York and Jokic averages 27.2 ppg. He wanted to show Porzingis and Turner that he can score better than them...I meant it's just laughable. For someone who is allegedly in contact with reality you make a pretty big deal out of the single game where Towns had 10 assists.

[Screwston]

Not just Brook, pretty much any C that puts up around 20 with no D. No D for a C is hard to make up, because they're too important defensively. Jokic is just horrific on that end, dude looks like Kanter on defense, just lost.

Jokic is not a bad defender, he is just a bad shot blocker. He is easily a better defender than Towns, who is horrific. And I'm honestly not trolling our friend here. As a Rubio fan, I have watched Minny a lot. Towns is a fantastic offensive player, he is kind of like a Shaq/Dirk hybrid, amazing, once in a lifetime scorer, but he is a pitiful defender at this point. Jokic is much better at being in the right position, that shows in the advanced stats. Jokic is actually an average defender overall, just not a shotblocker, and that simply confuses the casual fans, no offense.

No bro, he's bad, no way in hell he's an average defender lol, y'all are overrating this dude but now y'all are pushing it. Its not just the shot blocking, its the timing, positioning everything, dude is bad on xefense n he's not gonna improve much.

[Screwston]

Not just Brook, pretty much any C that puts up around 20 with no D. No D for a C is hard to make up, because they're too important defensively. Jokic is just horrific on that end, dude looks like Kanter on defense, just lost.

Jokic is not a bad defender, he is just a bad shot blocker. He is easily a better defender than Towns, who is horrific. And I'm honestly not trolling our friend here. As a Rubio fan, I have watched Minny a lot. Towns is a fantastic offensive player, he is kind of like a Shaq/Dirk hybrid, amazing, once in a lifetime scorer, but he is a pitiful defender at this point. Jokic is much better at being in the right position, that shows in the advanced stats. Jokic is actually an average defender overall, just not a shotblocker, and that simply confuses the casual fans, no offense.

No bro, he's bad, no way in hell he's an average defender lol, y'all are overrating this dude but now y'all are pushing it. Its not just the shot blocking, its the timing, positioning everything, dude is bad on xefense n he's not gonna improve much.

[Screwston]

Not just Brook, pretty much any C that puts up around 20 with no D. No D for a C is hard to make up, because they're too important defensively. Jokic is just horrific on that end, dude looks like Kanter on defense, just lost.

Jokic is not a bad defender, he is just a bad shot blocker. He is easily a better defender than Towns, who is horrific. And I'm honestly not trolling our friend here. As a Rubio fan, I have watched Minny a lot. Towns is a fantastic offensive player, he is kind of like a Shaq/Dirk hybrid, amazing, once in a lifetime scorer, but he is a pitiful defender at this point. Jokic is much better at being in the right position, that shows in the advanced stats. Jokic is actually an average defender overall, just not a shotblocker, and that simply confuses the casual fans, no offense.

No bro, he's bad, no way in hell he's an average defender lol, y'all are overrating this dude but now you're pushing it. Its not just the shot blocking, its the timing, positioning everything, dude is bad on defense n he's not gonna improve much.

[Alatan]

C with no D is a fools gold unless he's putting up ridiculous numbers offensively (even then I'm skeptical) not freaking 16 ppg. Would rather have Ben Wallace than Brook Lopez every time.

Anybody would rather have Ben Wallace than Brook Lopez, duh. Your problem is not realizing that Jokic was two tiers above the best version of Lopez... in his rookie season, never mind his sophomore. Come on guys, you either need to be educated on him, or if you have a bias, that's totally fine, but in that case some better trolling would be appreciated. Lead us along the way, throw some crumbs that we can eat up, and then bamm, shut the door. You can't just start with dumb statements like that, and expect to build up tension. It's just not gonna happen.

Not just Brook, pretty much any C that puts up around 20 with no D. No D for a C is hard to make up, because they're too important defensively. Jokic is just horrific on that end, dude looks like Kanter on defense, just lost.

Defense is important for centers maybe more than any other position but centers defensive impact is being lessened more and more by the stretch centers of today's game. If you look at the best teams in the NBA the previous season a lot of them have average or below average defensive players at the center position.

[Alatan]

Not just Brook, pretty much any C that puts up around 20 with no D. No D for a C is hard to make up, because they're too important defensively. Jokic is just horrific on that end, dude looks like Kanter on defense, just lost.

Jokic is not a bad defender, he is just a bad shot blocker. He is easily a better defender than Towns, who is horrific. And I'm honestly not trolling our friend here. As a Rubio fan, I have watched Minny a lot. Towns is a fantastic offensive player, he is kind of like a Shaq/Dirk hybrid, amazing, once in a lifetime scorer, but he is a pitiful defender at this point. Jokic is much better at being in the right position, that shows in the advanced stats. Jokic is actually an average defender overall, just not a shotblocker, and that simply confuses the casual fans, no offense.

No bro, he's bad, no way in hell he's an average defender lol, y'all are overrating this dude but now you're pushing it. Its not just the shot blocking, its the timing, positioning everything, dude is bad on defense n he's not gonna improve much.

A 22 year old is not going to improve? I dont think he is bad at timing and positioning but maybe i'm wrong. Anyway if anyone is going to improve on timing and positioning its Jokic. If you dont belive that then that's your problem.

[psimanic1]

So, when Towns does something for a few games everyone is like "See, he can do it but he doesn't want to", but when Jokic does same thing for 2 seasons in limited minutes everyone wants to see him do the same thing in more minutes.....mind ****...

And could you please just take a look at this video, and tell us how many assists in here is "because of system"...

Watch on YouTube

And if there is much, THAT'S GREAT, THAT ACTUALLY MEANS NUGGETS HAVE ON!! YEEEEEY!!

[Screwston]

Jokic is not a bad defender, he is just a bad shot blocker. He is easily a better defender than Towns, who is horrific. And I'm honestly not trolling our friend here. As a Rubio fan, I have watched Minny a lot. Towns is a fantastic offensive player, he is kind of like a Shaq/Dirk hybrid, amazing, once in a lifetime scorer, but he is a pitiful defender at this point. Jokic is much better at being in the right position, that shows in the advanced stats. Jokic is actually an average defender overall, just not a shotblocker, and that simply confuses the casual fans, no offense.

No bro, he's bad, no way in hell he's an average defender lol, y'all are overrating this dude but now you're pushing it. Its not just the shot blocking, its the timing, positioning everything, dude is bad on defense n he's not gonna improve much.

A 22 year old is not going to improve? I dont think he is bad at timing and positioning but maybe i'm wrong. Anyway if anyone is going to improve on timing and positioning its Jokic. If you dont belive that then that's your problem.

Not on the defensive end, obviously he's gonna improve as a player but on defense not much.

As for your post above, i tend to agree somewhat, but you still need paint protection no matter what. Look at Orlando Dwight n what he was able to do defensively, he held everything from a free throw line to the basket, its the most important position on defense, because they can do so much on that end. Thats why Hasheem Thabeet was a 2nd pick, bc he played good D in college

[Alatan]

No bro, he's bad, no way in hell he's an average defender lol, y'all are overrating this dude but now you're pushing it. Its not just the shot blocking, its the timing, positioning everything, dude is bad on defense n he's not gonna improve much.

A 22 year old is not going to improve? I dont think he is bad at timing and positioning but maybe i'm wrong. Anyway if anyone is going to improve on timing and positioning its Jokic. If you dont belive that then that's your problem.

Not on the defensive end, obviously he's gonna improve as a player but on defense not much.

As for your post above, i tend to agree somewhat, but you still need paint protection no matter what. Look at Orlando Dwight n what he was able to do defensively, he held everything from a free throw line to the basket, its the most important position on defense, because they can do so much on that end. Thats why Hasheem Thabeet was a 2nd pick, bc he played good D in college

Dont know why you think so. Marc Gasol had worse DBPM than Jokic in his first two years and then became DPOY. Im not saying that Jokic will be as Marc, it is the best case, im saying that unathletic bigs can improve on defense significantly. Now Marc is bigger than Jokic but then again Joikic doesnt need to be DPOY, just average.

[sixerswillrule]

Jokic put up an impressive 8.6 assists per 100 possessions, damn near Vlades best of 9.6, and a hair better than Millers best of 8.5.

Now you are just making stuff up. Jokic assists per 100 possessions including his stretch of 20ish games (28% !) where he wasn't playing his role of point center is 8.6. Divac's career average was 5.3, most of the seasons he had around that with one season of 9.6. Miller had 3.6 with best season of 5.9. Garnet had 5.7 with 8 as highest.

I love when the stat cultists cant read stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millebr01.html

Second time now I caught the stat cultists lying. Jokics 20PPG (17.7) and 35-36% from 3 (25.9) after the all star break being the first. Although I havent dug into it too much, so I wouldnt be surprised if there was more.

Sad.

What's even more sad is you citing Brad Miller's numbers from the last season of his career when he played 15 games at 10 minutes per game

Miller's career high when he was a starter and actually playing meaningful minutes was 6.7 assists per 100.
Also Divac topped 7 assists per 100 literally once in his entire career in that one outlier season near the end of his career (again not counting his final season where he barely played). Jokic already matched that at age 21 and will most likely top that at least half a dozen times.