Would the Warriors Have Won a Title the Last 3 Years without Steph but with CP3?

[SpreeS]

Second round exit as usually.

[Stephback 3]

They would still be very talented on both sides of the ball but a Chris Paul led Warriors team would definitely play with a different aura about them: a tougher, more grit-and-grind style basketball. I'm not certain they would be able to replicate the same success as the greenlight shooting style that's been their benchmark since Curry's break-out.

I could for instance imagine Paul and Thompson butting heads since Paul likes a hands-on, bossy approach whereas Klay seems to prefer a more laid back and chill attitude, similar to Blake Griffin. Draymond Green would have had to carry a much bigger burden on offense from no longer benefitting from Curry's gravity on the perimeter, and I'm really not sure how he handles it back in 2015. All of that being said, a core of Paul/Klay/Iguodala/Green/Bogut would have been a complete lockdown on defense and it might have still won them a championship or two.

[The_Hater]

I can't believe all the no answers.

They would have won at least the same number of titles. The 2015 finals were played against a skeleton Cavs team who shouldn't have won the 2 games they did and the 2017 GS team was obviously stacked and one of the greatest teams ever. Subbing one HOF PG for another doesn't change that. Also, Curry played so poorly in the 2016 finals that their odds of winning might have gone up with CP3 but getting past OKC might have been more difficult too.

[dYYYh.k²]

they would have probably lost to the clippers in the WCF in all of those years.

[og15]

The Clippers were as talented as the Warriors before KD joined them.

In fact in 2014 if you were to ask people who would you rather be going forward, 90%+ would pick the Clippers.

The difference is Steph. Two time MVP vs most toxic chemistry in the entire NBA.

This true in terms of offense only, and just in the starting, which we always told people as Clippers fans when they just list how much offense or capable PPG players are on the roster as if that's all that matters. Worst is when people say "Clippers have the multiple 6th man of the year" as if the award means anything or it makes Jamal generally useful in the playoffs. The Clippers being better on offense played out in 14-15, Clippers despite Blake missing 15 games and a very weak bench, they were the #1 team in Ortg, better than GS, but about 15th in Drtg still running hedge and recover on pick and rolls, and with slow footed guys like Hawes. If you look at the playoffs, though the Clippers didn't play as many games, Clippers Ortg was 108.4, GS was 108.7, but their Drtg comparison was Clippers 107.1 to GS 100.5. That's where the difference between the teams lay production wise.

So sure if you look at just offense, and in the case of Jamal, ppg, the talent was similar, but defense matters, size matters, quality depth matters. So if we also ignore the bench and the Clippers being smaller on the wings, then talent was the same. The Clippers have been very talented, but have just had much more exploitable rosters, though of course this off-season they finally kind of changed that course, only took like 6 seasons. You're always going to run into issues with a 6'4 SG with like a 6'4 wingspan, SF's who everyone played off on offense, and a bench led by Jamal Crawford when the playoffs roll around. Clippers should have gotten to the WCF in 14-15 though, the Houston loss was terrible, the seasons after that though, injuries made everything quite different, but the Warriors also took another step.

As much as people hated on Harrison Barnes, he was a better SF than any the Clippers have had, and if you combine the Barnes/Iguodala SF rotation, it isn't even close to what the Clippers tossed out at SF. Klay is/was bigger and better than Redick, and could guard multiple positions. Warriors bench depth was better, Curry got better than Paul. If the teams matched up the Clippers would be relying on Blake totally outplaying Green to make up for all the other positions, and Blake's on/off with Green the last three seasons, he basically shoots 60% FG when Green is off and about 35% FG when he is on. DJ could easily be matched by Bogut, but he would be the other attempt at an advantage.

[Bush4Ever]

They definitely would have seen a drop in their offensive production and overall production as well (Paul's defense absolutely does not cancel out Curry's offensive advantages, especially blended into the Warriors framework).

The funny thing is, they probably still would have won in 2015 and definitely would have won in 2017. Honestly, I'm not even sure swapping a healthy CP3 for a compromised Curry wouldn't have pushed them over the top (barely) in 2016.

That's a reflection of just how far ahead of the field they are (when healthy).

[tidho]

Speaking only of the Finals...

They certainly would have won last year. They would have won last year substituting Steph out for Ron Paul, lol.

The first two years are tougher to guess. Cleveland's 1-3 comeback was basically accomplished by isolating Steph and abusing him on defense. They may not have had that lead without Steph though.

First year, Steph was very uneven, they probably win that with Paul too given how decimated the Cavaliers were.

[Deezzraptors]

Nah

[Unbreakable99]

Wow! It's almost 50/50.

[Young_Star11]

Depends on the dynamics of having CP3, but let's not forget GS were a couple of minutes away from winning three titles.

Hard to see how they don't win at least ONE with CP3.

[LarsV8]

Probably

[Ckay]

Oh wow it's tied lol

[LibertyPrime]

As long as we're asking "what if" questions, I think the real question is:

Would the Warriors have won a title the last 3 years without Steph but with a velociraptor at PG? How would the team benefit without Steph's playmaking and shooting skills but WITH the velociraptor's full-blown tendency to eat other PGs in transition?

Also, would the mid 90's Nuggets be a better team without Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf but WITH Howard the Duck at PG?

[NBARocks]

Golden State is the way it is because of Curry. All the other guys have so much space to operate because of the attention Curry gets.

[EireannX]

Depends on the dynamics of having CP3, but let's not forget GS were a couple of minutes away from winning three titles.

Hard to see how they don't win at least ONE with CP3.

I find it hard to see them even making the finals with CP.

CP completely ruins the Warriors offence, their ball movement, ability to play off the ball and space generated for Draymond.

Look how Blake Griffins usage suffers with CP3 and then tell yourself that wouldn't happen because?

[dabonett]

It's not a videogame. Team chemistry and intangibles are key. it's a team sport not a sum of individual talents. That's why Italy steamrolled team USA in 2004 ( with Duncan an AI, even Melo and Lebron)

[megarover]

Does Curry end up on the Clippers in this scenario. If he doesn't they win in 2015 and 2017.

[og15]

Does Curry end up on the Clippers in this scenario. If he doesn't they win in 2015 and 2017.

Not sure that changes anything with Blake's recent injuries. 14-15 would be the interesting one. Lack of depth did catch up to the Clippers, so that's obviously an issue. 15-16 Blake's injury was one that was coming regardless. This last season, again it was non contact and stress related, so I don't know if we argue that different scenario removes that or not. Clippers were good on defense in 15-16, but not the other 2 seasons, but with no Blake after a couple of games into the first round, there's not much Steph would change. You're not going anywhere in the playoffs when Redick is supposed to be your second option in the starting lineup, and Jamal Crawford your second playmaker on the team. Clippers would technically play GS in the second round both times if everything stayed the same standings wise and LAC made it past the first, but GS could just rest Paul on Mbah or have him guard Redick while Klay takes Steph. Steph could rest defensively on Barnes (Redick on Klay, Mbah on Paul), but with the Durant team he wouldn't get to rest on defense.

The last two seasons were different, but I think in 14-15 we missed out on what would have been a good series between LAC and GSW assuming the Clippers guys who were getting tired could regain some fitness for the series.

[megarover]

Does Curry end up on the Clippers in this scenario. If he doesn't they win in 2015 and 2017.

Not sure that changes anything with Blake's recent injuries. 14-15 would be the interesting one. Lack of depth did catch up to the Clippers, so that's obviously an issue. 15-16 Blake's injury was one that was coming regardless. This last season, again it was non contact and stress related, so I don't know if we argue that different scenario removes that or not. Clippers were good on defense in 15-16, but not the other 2 seasons, but with no Blake after a couple of games into the first round, there's not much Steph would change. You're not going anywhere in the playoffs when Redick is supposed to be your second option in the starting lineup, and Jamal Crawford your second playmaker on the team. Clippers would technically play GS in the second round both times if everything stayed the same standings wise and LAC made it past the first, but GS could just rest Paul on Mbah or have him guard Redick while Klay takes Steph. Steph could rest defensively on Barnes (Redick on Klay, Mbah on Paul), but with the Durant team he wouldn't get to rest on defense.

The last two seasons were different, but I think in 14-15 we missed out on what would have been a good series between LAC and GSW assuming the Clippers guys who were getting tired could regain some fitness for the series.

That is a valid point but Griffin wasn't the only one dealing with injuries the last three years. CP3 wasn't exactly healthy in 15 & 16. It made it easier to simply assume both squads were relatively healthy the last 3 years. Afterall Paul playing injured or not at all would play a big role in whether or not the Warriors would make it out the conference. This doesn't apply to 2017 of course where that team would likely come out on top anyways.

[eminence]

Absolutely. Still heavy favorites in '15 and '17, have a shot in '16 if healthy, may even still be favorites, but not by nearly as much as the other two seasons.