Page 1 of 8
The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:56 am
by OldCeltics
IT: 29 year old next year, 5'9" and asking for "Brinks Trucks" aka MAX, having a permanent injury that never heals unless surgery
Irving: 25 year old, 17m mill for 2 more years, Better defense, Olympics champion, Better scorer in playoffs
Irving fits better into Jaylen and Jayson time frame. Celtics have 2 top 3 picks, Jaylen Brown, and Jayson Tatum. They both have star potential, but are 2 years away.
IT's injury requires surgery, and according to doctors cannot fully heal on its own. He will have to manage the injury and pain the next few years. This hip injury directly affects Isaiah's explosiveness. He will have major surgery next year.
The Brooklyn pick will end up from 1-7 most likely. Then you have to win the lottery. If you win the lottery you still have to pick the correct player. Even if you pick the correct player, you have to develop him for 3 years. No guarantees.
Crowder is an over rated throw in, solid defensively but is a mediocre scorer, and complains he wants more touches.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:00 am
by LarsV8
So my questions would be:
1.) You are operating over the cap, so from a competitive standpoint, what is the functional difference between IT at 20m per year vs IT at 30m per year?
2.) Do you not think Irving's accolades are more context oriented than skill oriented?
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:00 am
by Wolfgang630
You guys will do anything to rationalize Ainge's screw ups.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:03 am
by dhsilv2
They got a clearly better player and gave up a high value pick. Seems like a no brainer.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:04 am
by karkinos
not really a screw up when ainge was fielding far worse deals from other teams
bulls asked for WAY more for butler. kyrie's deal was far more reasonable.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:05 am
by OldCeltics
LarsV8 wrote:1.) You are operating over the cap, so from a competitive standpoint, what is the functional difference between IT at 20m per year vs IT at 30m per year?
Paying an injured 5'9 player, who plays poor defense, 30 mil is insanity, and will be a decision for Cleveland next year.
2.) Do you not think Irving's accolades are more context oriented than skill oriented?
Well i agree about context, but the guy is a super-star talent and most agree he is a top 15 player in NBA. He shoots 47% 2pt, 40% 4pt, 91% ft and hasn't peeked yet.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:05 am
by Vince604
"It is a high price tag," Ainge said. "But acquiring a 25-year-old perennial All-Star, a player that fits a timeline for us, and is a fantastic offensive player, one of the best offensive players in the league, you have to pay a heavy price."
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:08 am
by azcatz11
dhsilv2 wrote:They got a clearly better player and gave up a high value pick. Seems like a no brainer.
Not when the clearly better player is not a clearly better player for next year, which is all that matters. The NBA is so fluid in this respect
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:09 am
by azcatz11
Vince604 wrote:"It is a high price tag," Ainge said. "But acquiring a 25-year-old perennial All-Star, a player that fits a timeline for us, and is a fantastic offensive player, one of the best offensive players in the league, you have to pay a heavy price."
What happens when Giannis owns the C's in 3 years? What will Ainge say than? He's coming after their kids and will kill all of them and not think twice about it!
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:11 am
by DowJones
OldCeltics wrote:IT: 29 year old next year, 5'9" and asking for "Brinks Trucks" aka MAX, having a permanent injury that never heals unless surgery
Irving: 25 year old, 17m mill for 2 more years, Better defense, Finals MVP, Olympics champion, Better scorer in playoffs
Irving fits better into Jaylen and Jayson time frame. Celtics have 2 top 3 picks, Jaylen Brown, and Jayson Tatum. They both have star potential, but are 2 years away.
IT's injury requires surgery, and according to doctors cannot fully heal on its own. He will have to manage the injury and pain the next few years. This hip injury directly affects Isaiah's explosiveness. He will have major surgery next year.
The Brooklyn pick will end up from 1-7 most likely. Then you have to win the lottery. If you win the lottery you still have to pick the correct player. Even if you pick the correct player, you have to develop him for 3 years.
Crowder is an over rated thrown in, solid defensively but is a mediocre scorer, and complains he wants more ltouches.
Cleveland could spin it in a similar way. Kyrie has long-term injury questions.
The deal makes sense for Boston. It does. It is a HR for Cleveland though and I think it is dangerous to give Cleveland that Nets pick. They could turn that into something big.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:12 am
by infinite11285
OldCeltics wrote:Irving: 25 year old, 17m mill for 2 more years, Better defense, Finals MVP, Olympics champion, Better scorer in playoffs
When the hell was Irving a Finals MVP?
Kyrie's advantage over IT defensively is marginal at best. They're both pretty bad when it's all said and done so that's a wash.
Kyrie benefited tremendously on both ends of the floor playing LeBron James who demands a ton of attention. That benefit is now gone and now IT, a player who has actually shown he can lead a team, will benefit from that luxury. If you want an idea of how Irving will lead the Celtics, watch some tape of his play when LeBron sits. Irving is a tremendous player, but lets be cognizant of who he is without a LeBron James on the roster. He's been severely overrated the last several months on these boards. He's an all world talent no doubt, but he simply doesn't have the tangibles to be THE guy on a championship team.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:12 am
by Bertrob
When did Irving get a Finals MVP again
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:13 am
by Badonkadonk
Ainge straight-up got fleeced. Cleveland had no leverage in this situation; that was given away when Kyrie demanded the trade.
I'm surprised the Cavs were able to extract so much.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:19 am
by OldCeltics
Badonkadonk wrote:Ainge straight-up got fleeced. Cleveland had no leverage in this situation; that was given away when Kyrie demanded the trade.
I'm surprised the Cavs were able to extract so much.
It wasn't much, Crowder is garbage. It was really a 29 year old injured IT, that wants 32 mil/year, or 25 year old MVP caliber PG. The Brooklyn pick is not guaranteed to pan out to anything.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:20 am
by karkinos
ainge has been robbing people on trades for years
i'm honestly flabbergasted at how he jedi mind tricked people into even feeling sorry for him on this irving trade
he does a fair trade and people think he got robbed
people talking about crowder like he's a unique asset when they have hayward/morris/tatum/brown/ojeleye who can all play D and shoot 3s.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:22 am
by NyKnicks1714
OldCeltics wrote:The Brooklyn pick will end up from 1-7 most likely. Then you have to win the lottery. If you win the lottery you still have to pick the correct player. Even if you pick the correct player, you have to develop him for 3 years. No guarantees.
Really?
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:22 am
by I beg to differ
IT: 29 year old next year
Irving: 25 year old [this year]
Also, Irving was 20 years old 5 years ago, while Isaiah will be 80 years old 52 years from now. 20 is way younger than 80, so Ainge did a good job.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:23 am
by mg
azcatz11 wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:They got a clearly better player and gave up a high value pick. Seems like a no brainer.
Not when the clearly better player is not a clearly better player for next year, which is all that matters. The NBA is so fluid in this respect
Cavs obviously have LeBron for one more season(and that may be it). Maybe Ainge is looking for the Celtics to start making Finals appearances the next season when the EC could possibly be wide open? Obviously if Ainge waits until next season to trade IT he could walk for nothing in FA.
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:23 am
by ooptolebron
I like how you referred to IT's age as "29 next year" and Kyrie as "25".
Re: The IT trade explained from Celtics perspective
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:24 am
by PhilBlackson
So who exactly defends for BOS now???