Wiggins expected to sign 148mil max deal before camp

[Mamba4Goat]

I foresee a MIP award in Wiggins future as he vaults himself into an mvp candidate. He needs a full season at SG.

[ShazamDaShiznt]

I don't understand the hate, yes, he is more like Jamal Crawford than Keven Durant now, but the guy is 22 years old and averaging close to 24 ppg with 45% shooting.

It's a no brainer to bet on this guy if you are an owner, it's up to Wiggins (and team trainer) to keep improving his game.

There are 15 more players averaged more points than Wiggins did last season, only one of them is younger than Wiggins and that's his teammate.

remember this is realgm, people are obsessed with advanced stats like they know which players have what kind of impact, too bad no nba team is hiring these very intelligent people.

Like you said wiggins is frikkin 22 years old + he's built like a superstar, we are not talking about player in his early 30s or something, we are talking about 22 year old wiggins who may as well not even reach his peak years with that contract meaning that if SOMEHOW wolves had enough of him there would be plenty of teams interested in trading for him. It's a no brainer to sign him.

But realgm specialists know everything before it happens. it's like hater investment if the kid turns out to be a disappointment 4 years later they will be like: HA! I was right all the time.

[Wolfgang630]

I don't see why people are whining so much? He's going into his fourth year. He'll have another year under Thibs and now he's got Jimmy Butler to coach him. He will get better and he needed Butler as a mentor on the defensive side.

If you're the Wolves you have to do it. You need him to become a star player. It's not like Butler was an amazing player his fourth year.

[The-Power]

It's not like Butler was an amazing player his fourth year.

You make it sound as if it isn't a huge risk to bet on exceptional – not regular – development.

[AirP.]

I'm not sure it's much of a secret. People always say he's so young blah blah, but he's actually gotten worse defensively by each passing season. He's also made zero strides in any other part of his game besides scoring. How many seasons before we just accept this is who he is? If he makes no strides these next two seasons when he has jimmy butler (who's a very good all around player) there to learn from then I think it's time to accept that he is what he is. That is clearly not a super max player and it's going to be a disaster for the twolves if he doesn't make some significant strides when he's being paid that monster salary.

Andrew Wiggins is 22 years old. Jimmy Butler wasn't that very good all-around player when he was 22. I guess it's a miracle that he improved any aspect of his game.

Jimmy Butler was drafted as a defender and in a couple of seasons of working hard he was one of the few players that people thought could defend LeBron. His 3rd year his coach(Thibs) started using him more offensively which was probably also talked about during his exit meeting, that summer he locked himself in a gym working on his offensive game and became an all-star that next season and he's continued getting better the next 2 years. During Butler's whole career he's shown growth, defensive early on and now offensively.

Wiggins' had the keys to the franchise given to him, his 3rd year he was allowed to shoot the ball as much as he wanted(2nd most FGA in the NBA) and was average in efficiency and bad defensively. There's not been any growth shown other then shooting the ball more. Maybe someone like Butler can get him to reach his potential but if he doesn't Minnesota may be on the hook for a max contract guy dropping 18 ppg as a 3rd option with possibly average defense as the 3rd option of a good team.

[AirP.]

I don't see why people are whining so much? He's going into his fourth year. He'll have another year under Thibs and now he's got Jimmy Butler to coach him. He will get better and he needed Butler as a mentor on the defensive side.

If you're the Wolves you have to do it. You need him to become a star player. It's not like Butler was an amazing player his fourth year.

He was an all-star his 4th year and a player considered one of the better LeBron defenders in the league, that's at least close to being amazing, if Wiggins could reach that in the next couple of years I'd consider him a good value at the max.

Minnesota doesn't have to do it but they're in a tough position, if they keep him and he gets marginally better but gets 3-5 shots less a game because of the added offensively players around him where his scoring drops his stock/potential will drop greatly as he'll be 23, toss in the max contract and that makes it worse. If Minnesota does shop Wiggins or listen to offers after this next contract is up he could walk like Hayward did with Utah(he didn't like having to go out and get a bigger offer after his rookie deal).

[leolozon]

I'm not sure it's much of a secret. People always say he's so young blah blah, but he's actually gotten worse defensively by each passing season. He's also made zero strides in any other part of his game besides scoring. How many seasons before we just accept this is who he is? If he makes no strides these next two seasons when he has jimmy butler (who's a very good all around player) there to learn from then I think it's time to accept that he is what he is. That is clearly not a super max player and it's going to be a disaster for the twolves if he doesn't make some significant strides when he's being paid that monster salary.

Andrew Wiggins is 22 years old. Jimmy Butler wasn't that very good all-around player when he was 22. I guess it's a miracle that he improved any aspect of his game.

That's incredibly misleading considering Butler came into the league at 22. It's not about age, it's about development.

Wiggins hasn't develop at all since the 2nd half of his rookie season. Butler got better EVERY season in his first 4 years in the league (in his 3rd year his offense stalled, but he certainly got better defensively).

Butler wasn't even highly recruited coming out of high school, he had to play at Tyler Jr College before a Division 1 college decided to give him a chance. Wiggins was seen by some as the best prospect since Lebron. Butler has always shown a propension for developing his game. He also got better every year while he was in college. Butler basically started out as a 3 in terms of talent and over 9 years he slowly became a 9.5. While Wiggins started out as a 7 and over 4 years became a... 7.5?

Does it mean Wiggins will not get better next year or the year after that? No. But it means it's far more likely that he doesn't. That he's simply the player that he is.

I like the guy and I wish I'm wrong. But I wouldn't bet 148 millions on it right now. Even more if I don't need to do it right now. I would wait to see what's going on next year, then I would take a decision. That's the smartest thing to do.

[vagelis]

Jimmy Butler was drafted as a defender and in a couple of seasons of working hard he was one of the few players that people thought could defend LeBron. His 3rd year his coach(Thibs) started using him more offensively which was probably also talked about during his exit meeting, that summer he locked himself in a gym working on his offensive game and became an all-star that next season and he's continued getting better the next 2 years. During Butler's whole career he's shown growth, defensive early on and now offensively.

Wiggins' had the keys to the franchise given to him, his 3rd year he was allowed to shoot the ball as much as he wanted(2nd most FGA in the NBA) and was average in efficiency and bad defensively. There's not been any growth shown other then shooting the ball more. Maybe someone like Butler can get him to reach his potential but if he doesn't Minnesota may be on the hook for a max contract guy dropping 18 ppg as a 3rd option with possibly average defense as the 3rd option of a good team.

Comparing Wiggins and Butler in their third year in nba, although I do not think that this is a fair comparison because of the fact that Butler was 3 years older than Wiggins is now

Wiggins 22 yo, 23.6ppg, 4.0rpg, 2.3apg, .452 fg%, .356 3p%, 37.2mp
Butler 25yo, 13.1ppg , 4.9rpg, 2.6apg, .397 fg%, .283 3p%, 38.7mp

So, if we compare them in their third year (which is the last year that Wiggins has played so far) I think there is no question that Wiggins had a better year while being 3 years younger.
Furthermore, Wiggins is more talented and better athlete than Butler.
Butler may be one of the players that can defend Lebron but Wiggins is one of the players Lebron cannot defend(Wiggins averages 30ppg against Lebron).
I have no doubt that Wiggins will become a better player than Butler. In my opinion that can happen even in this year.
Wiggins always was the first offensive option every single year that he has played basketball and he will continue to be the first option for every year that he will play.
Butler is a hard worker and a great defender. He is used to be the second and third option and I think he will not have a problem to be the second or third option of the Wolves.

[Bertrob]

I foresee a MIP award in Wiggins future as he vaults himself into an mvp candidate. He needs a full season at SG.

I doubt he gets one with Butler there now

[AirP.]

Jimmy Butler was drafted as a defender and in a couple of seasons of working hard he was one of the few players that people thought could defend LeBron. His 3rd year his coach(Thibs) started using him more offensively which was probably also talked about during his exit meeting, that summer he locked himself in a gym working on his offensive game and became an all-star that next season and he's continued getting better the next 2 years. During Butler's whole career he's shown growth, defensive early on and now offensively.

Wiggins' had the keys to the franchise given to him, his 3rd year he was allowed to shoot the ball as much as he wanted(2nd most FGA in the NBA) and was average in efficiency and bad defensively. There's not been any growth shown other then shooting the ball more. Maybe someone like Butler can get him to reach his potential but if he doesn't Minnesota may be on the hook for a max contract guy dropping 18 ppg as a 3rd option with possibly average defense as the 3rd option of a good team.

Comparing Wiggins and Butler in their third year in nba, although I do not think that this is a fair comparison because of the fact that Butler was 3 years older than Wiggins is now.

Wiggins 22 yo, 23.6ppg, 4.0rpg, 2.3apg, .452 fg%, .356 3p%, 37.2mp
Butler 25yo, 13.1ppg , 4.9rpg, 2.6apg, .397 fg%, .283 3p%, 38.7mp

So, if we compare them in their third year (which is the last year that Wiggins has played so far) I think there is no question that Wiggins had a better year while being 3 years younger.

Wiggins was a #1 option on a team that won 31 games, Butler was the 4th option on a 48 win team that didn't have their top player(Rose) almost all year and traded away their 2nd best player(Deing) for a bag of cash. Minnesota was actually a worse team with Wiggins on the court because of his average efficiency scoring and his terrible defense, while Butler made his team better with his great defense and below average offense, all that while playing with turf toe nearly all season.

Furthermore, Wiggins is more talented and better athlete than Butler. I have no doubt that Wiggins will become a better player than Butler. In my opinion that can happen even in this year.

Wiggins is absolutely a better athlete then Butler, more talented? He shoots more then Butler but Butler is a better scorer especially in the clutch, a better playmaker for teammates, a better rebounder and a much much better defender. How is Wiggins more talented? Because he jumps high and shoots the ball alot?

Wiggins always was the first offensive option every single year that he has played basketball and he will continue to be the first option for every year that he will play.

Why would the 3rd or even 4 best offensive player be the #1 option now? Towns got better by leaps and bounds late last season, Butler showed he was one of the best clutch scorers in the NBA and made the all-nba team and Teague may just be a more efficient scorer then Wiggins who also can create for others.

Butler is a hard worker and a great defender. He is used to be the second and third option and I think he will not have a problem to be the second or third option of the Wolves.

Why trade for an All-NBA type talent then use him as a defensive player while letting a lesser offensive player shoot the ball. So Minnesota traded LaVine, Dunn and their lottery pick to get Butler to play defense and get a mid 1st round pick, that doesn't really seem all that smart.

I'm not sure Wiggins ever makes an all-star team(he might if he gets better) let alone the All-NBA team.

[Klomp]

Jimmy Butler was drafted as a defender and in a couple of seasons of working hard he was one of the few players that people thought could defend LeBron. His 3rd year his coach(Thibs) started using him more offensively which was probably also talked about during his exit meeting, that summer he locked himself in a gym working on his offensive game and became an all-star that next season and he's continued getting better the next 2 years. During Butler's whole career he's shown growth, defensive early on and now offensively.

Wiggins' had the keys to the franchise given to him, his 3rd year he was allowed to shoot the ball as much as he wanted(2nd most FGA in the NBA) and was average in efficiency and bad defensively. There's not been any growth shown other then shooting the ball more. Maybe someone like Butler can get him to reach his potential but if he doesn't Minnesota may be on the hook for a max contract guy dropping 18 ppg as a 3rd option with possibly average defense as the 3rd option of a good team.

So Butler was able to work hard and improve his weakest side of the ball, but people just can't grasp the fact that Wiggins could do the same. He's a bad defender at 22 years old so he'll forever be a bad defender.

[AirP.]

Jimmy Butler was drafted as a defender and in a couple of seasons of working hard he was one of the few players that people thought could defend LeBron. His 3rd year his coach(Thibs) started using him more offensively which was probably also talked about during his exit meeting, that summer he locked himself in a gym working on his offensive game and became an all-star that next season and he's continued getting better the next 2 years. During Butler's whole career he's shown growth, defensive early on and now offensively.

Wiggins' had the keys to the franchise given to him, his 3rd year he was allowed to shoot the ball as much as he wanted(2nd most FGA in the NBA) and was average in efficiency and bad defensively. There's not been any growth shown other then shooting the ball more. Maybe someone like Butler can get him to reach his potential but if he doesn't Minnesota may be on the hook for a max contract guy dropping 18 ppg as a 3rd option with possibly average defense as the 3rd option of a good team.

So Butler was able to work hard and improve his weakest side of the ball, but people just can't grasp the fact that Wiggins could do the same. He's a bad defender at 22 years old so he'll forever be a bad defender.

Never said he can't, but with him showing really no growth in his game for 3 years other then shooting the ball more and having a better stroke from 3pt range, he's shown nearly 0 growth having 2 off seasons as a professional to get better and just hasn't, not at a noticeable rate. His rates of rebounding, assists, steals, blocks are nearly the same all 3 years. Does he have the chance to get better, maybe be great, absolutely all I'm saying is I don't think that chance is very big based off what I've seen his first 3 years in the league being handed the #1 option in Minnesota. Come on, he's still one of the worst defenders in the game still, with his athletic ability he should be a game changer on both sides and he's not, he's wasting his physical abilities.

Personally, I don't think he has the drive to reach his potential at the NBA level(which I could be wrong) and even if I were correct that could always change, maybe having some vets around(especially on the wing) who can push him daily could change that.

[Klomp]

Never said he can't, but with him showing really no growth in his game for 3 years other then shooting the ball more and having a better stroke from 3pt range, he's shown nearly 0 growth having 2 off seasons as a professional to get better and just hasn't, not at a noticeable rate. His rates of rebounding, assists, steals, blocks are nearly the same all 3 years. Does he have the chance to get better, maybe be great, absolutely all I'm saying is I don't think that chance is very big based off what I've seen his first 3 years in the league being handed the #1 option in Minnesota. Come on, he's still one of the worst defenders in the game still, with his athletic ability he should be a game changer on both sides and he's not, he's wasting his physical abilities.

Personally, I don't think he has the drive to reach his potential at the NBA level(which I could be wrong) and even if I were correct that could always change, maybe having some vets around(especially on the wing) who can push him daily could change that.

He hasn't shown a lot of statistical growth, but for the people who actually turn on the TV or online stream and actually watch the games (crazy concept, I know), he has grown since he came into the league.

[vagelis]

Wiggins is absolutely a better athlete then Butler, more talented? He shoots more then Butler but Butler is a better scorer especially in the clutch, a better playmaker for teammates, a better rebounder and a much much better defender. How is Wiggins more talented? Because he jumps high and shoots the ball alot?

Butler is not a better scorer. They averaged the same ppg the last year and Wiggins is 6 years younger.
Wiggins has a lot of room to become better in all the aspects of the game including scoring while Butler is on his pick.
Butler's game has not to do with talent but with strength and passion.

Why would the 3rd or even 4 best offensive player be the #1 option now? Towns got better by leaps and bounds late last season, Butler showed he was one of the best clutch scorers in the NBA and made the all-nba team and Teague may just be a more efficient scorer then Wiggins who also can create for others.

Because he is not the 4th best offensive player. He is the best offensive player of the Wolves.Wiggins was the primary option the last year attempting one fg more than Towns.
Towns is also a great offensive player but the defenses focused on Wiggins. I don't think that you seriously believe that Teague is a better offensive player than Wiggins.

Why trade for an All-NBA type talent then use him as a defensive player while letting a lesser offensive player shoot the ball. So Minnesota traded LaVine, Dunn and their lottery pick to get Butler to play defense and get a mid 1st round pick, that doesn't really seem all that smart.

I'm not sure Wiggins ever makes an all-star team(he might if he gets better) let alone the All-NBA team.

Butler has to do the work that he is good at it. He is an all around player but he is not a first option player. He is a great player and he can score the ball but he is not a first option player. Some players have been born great scorers like KD, Kobe Bryant and I think that Wiggins has the gifts to become the next big scorer of the game.
As for the trade Lavine is also a super talented player but he just tored his acl, he is a bad defender(Yes Lavine cannot play defense while Wiggins plays a lot better individual defense) and he was a bad fit with Wiggins because they are both shooting guards.

Finally, I think that Wiggins has not to care about make an all-star game and about journalist ranking lists. He has to care to become the best scorer in nba, to become better all around player and lead the Wolves in the playoffs.

[Billy Goat]

I don't understand the hate, yes, he is more like Jamal Crawford than Keven Durant now, but the guy is 22 years old and averaging close to 24 ppg with 45% shooting.

It's a no brainer to bet on this guy if you are an owner, it's up to Wiggins (and team trainer) to keep improving his game.

There are 15 more players averaged more points than Wiggins did last season, only one of them is younger than Wiggins and that's his teammate.

remember this is realgm, people are obsessed with advanced stats like they know which players have what kind of impact, too bad no nba team is hiring these very intelligent people.

Like you said wiggins is frikkin 22 years old + he's built like a superstar, we are not talking about player in his early 30s or something, we are talking about 22 year old wiggins who may as well not even reach his peak years with that contract meaning that if SOMEHOW wolves had enough of him there would be plenty of teams interested in trading for him. It's a no brainer to sign him.

But realgm specialists know everything before it happens. it's like hater investment if the kid turns out to be a disappointment 4 years later they will be like: HA! I was right all the time.

Thinking that it's bad to give a shooting guard who can't shoot a max deal is hardly an analytical take.

[The_Hater]

This is already one of the worst contracts in the league, I just don't see how a bunch of clear weaknesses become strengths which needs to happen for him to become an elite player. He seems cut of the Rudy Gay, Demar Derozan style with Gay's work ehtic.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I remember when Wiggins didn't have the "it" to be a big time scorer, but was thought a pretty defensive player with amazing potential.

[AirP.]

Wiggins is absolutely a better athlete then Butler, more talented? He shoots more then Butler but Butler is a better scorer especially in the clutch, a better playmaker for teammates, a better rebounder and a much much better defender. How is Wiggins more talented? Because he jumps high and shoots the ball alot?

Butler is not a better scorer. They averaged the same ppg the last year and Wiggins is 6 years younger.
Wiggins has a lot of room to become better in all the aspects of the game including scoring while Butler is on his pick.
Butler's game has not to do with talent but with strength and passion.

You forgot skill.

Why would the 3rd or even 4 best offensive player be the #1 option now? Towns got better by leaps and bounds late last season, Butler showed he was one of the best clutch scorers in the NBA and made the all-nba team and Teague may just be a more efficient scorer then Wiggins who also can create for others.

Because he is not the 4th best offensive player. He is the best offensive player of the Wolves.Wiggins was the primary option the last year attempting one fg more than Towns.
Towns is also a great offensive player but the defenses focused on Wiggins. I don't think that you seriously believe that Teague is a better offensive player than Wiggins.

Teams actually focused on Butler yet he was able to score at a much higher efficiency... meaning less shots needed to still outscore Wiggins. I think it can be argued that Teagues scoring and PLAYMAKING for others is as important on offense as Wiggins average efficiency scoring.

Why trade for an All-NBA type talent then use him as a defensive player while letting a lesser offensive player shoot the ball. So Minnesota traded LaVine, Dunn and their lottery pick to get Butler to play defense and get a mid 1st round pick, that doesn't really seem all that smart.

I'm not sure Wiggins ever makes an all-star team(he might if he gets better) let alone the All-NBA team.

Butler has to do the work that he is good at it. He is an all around player but he is not a first option player.

What? He outscored Wiggins and took nearly 4 shot attempts less per game, while outscoring Wiggins in less shot attempts he also out assisted Wiggins by over 3 assists per game. So Butler outscored Wiggins on less attempts, had more then double the assists, scored at a much higher efficiency and actually led his team to more wins but he's not a first option? If you truly believe that with the year he just posted then you must really be unrealistic or just don't watch basketball outside of Timberwolves games.

Not to mention the guy you say isn't a #1 option was one of the best scorers in the clutch.

Weird how Butler seemed to do WAY better in the clutch.
Player FG FGA FG% eFG% Ast'd Blk'd FTM Pts 48 Min
Butler 15.7 34.7 .451 .510 30% 3% 20.1 55.5
Wiggins 11.3 28.7 .392 .422 40% 10% 9.3 33.5

http://www.82games.com/1617/16CHI10.HTM#clutch
http://www.82games.com/1617/16MIN9.HTM#clutch

I do know Butler scored at a higher rate in the clutch then KD and J.Hardin, the only player last year that scored more in the clutch I do believe was Westbrook at an incredible 80 points per 48.

He is a great player and he can score the ball but he is not a first option player. Some players have been born great scorers like KD, Kobe Bryant and I think that Wiggins has the gifts to become the next big scorer of the game.
As for the trade Lavine is also a super talented player but he just tored his acl, he is a bad defender(Yes Lavine cannot play defense while Wiggins plays a lot better individual defense) and he was a bad fit with Wiggins because they are both shooting guards.

Finally, I think that Wiggins has not to care about make an all-star game and about journalist ranking lists. He has to care to become the best scorer in nba, to become better all around player and lead the Wolves in the playoffs.

Boy are there going to be problems if Wiggins tries to be the best scorer in the NBA when he has 2 players on his team that are better then he currently is. Towns nearly averaged 30 points a night after the all-star break on HIGHLY efficient scoring numbers, he should be the one getting the bulk of attempts on Minnesota, he's the scoring monster.

[AirP.]

Never said he can't, but with him showing really no growth in his game for 3 years other then shooting the ball more and having a better stroke from 3pt range, he's shown nearly 0 growth having 2 off seasons as a professional to get better and just hasn't, not at a noticeable rate. His rates of rebounding, assists, steals, blocks are nearly the same all 3 years. Does he have the chance to get better, maybe be great, absolutely all I'm saying is I don't think that chance is very big based off what I've seen his first 3 years in the league being handed the #1 option in Minnesota. Come on, he's still one of the worst defenders in the game still, with his athletic ability he should be a game changer on both sides and he's not, he's wasting his physical abilities.

Personally, I don't think he has the drive to reach his potential at the NBA level(which I could be wrong) and even if I were correct that could always change, maybe having some vets around(especially on the wing) who can push him daily could change that.

He hasn't shown a lot of statistical growth, but for the people who actually turn on the TV or online stream and actually watch the games (crazy concept, I know), he has grown since he came into the league.

Yes and it's done nothing for his game other then shoot more shots. Yes I watch a ton of basketball every year, I sometimes even go to games, I know it's crazy, someone who believes in stats and watching players. His 3 years of training in the pros should have increased some type of output other then shooting the ball more. I could understand not showing improvement as a roleplayer but Wiggins was handed the keys to the franchise and yet not much contributed other then shooting the basketball.

[caseyhampton]

There's a huge chance this contract comes back to bite them in the ass. They just paid a guy who, at this point in his career, has zero positive impact. I'll pray for you twolves fans.

He is still better and more proven then any guy in your sixers tank team, but keep hating man lol.

You got me wrong homie, I ain't hating, as a Sixers fan, I respect Wiggins and his ability to stay on the court ( ) he can get his at any given time if he's hot, but we're talking about a guy who:

-is an incapable defender
-is inefficient
-needs the ball to be effective.

With Jimmy Butler coming in, he will naturally have a decreased role, which means less touches. What he brings to the table, scoring, Jimmy Butler & KAT already do well. So what does he do well enough to have an established, effective role on this team?

The star potential is there, and the organization obviously recognizes that, but with the team he's surrounded with, he will most likely have a Rudy Gay level career, which isn't a bad thing.

And for the record, I'd take either of Fultz, Embiid, Simmons & Covington over Wiggins any day