Wiggins expected to sign 148mil max deal before camp

[ISayshowmee]

Yikes....

[naabzor]

There's a huge chance this contract comes back to bite them in the ass. They just paid a guy who, at this point in his career, has zero positive impact. I'll pray for you twolves fans.

He is still better and more proven then any guy in your sixers tank team, but keep hating man lol.

You got me wrong homie, I ain't hating, as a Sixers fan, I respect Wiggins and his ability to stay on the court ( ) he can get his at any given time if he's hot, but we're talking about a guy who:

-is an incapable defender
-is inefficient
-needs the ball to be effective.

With Jimmy Butler coming in, he will naturally have a decreased role, which means less touches. What he brings to the table, scoring, Jimmy Butler & KAT already do well. So what does he do well enough to have an established, effective role on this team?

The star potential is there, and the organization obviously recognizes that, but with the team he's surrounded with, he will most likely have a Rudy Gay level career, which isn't a bad thing.

And for the record, I'd take either of Fultz, Embiid, Simmons & Covington over Wiggins any day

At age 23 Jimmy Butler was averaging 8.6 points per game. At age 24, 13 sporting a FG% of .397. I am sure everyone here thought Butler was a damn bust. I understand that there is some concerns about this game but the guy is 21. 21! Cut him some slack man.

[leolozon]

He is still better and more proven then any guy in your sixers tank team, but keep hating man lol.

You got me wrong homie, I ain't hating, as a Sixers fan, I respect Wiggins and his ability to stay on the court ( ) he can get his at any given time if he's hot, but we're talking about a guy who:

-is an incapable defender
-is inefficient
-needs the ball to be effective.

With Jimmy Butler coming in, he will naturally have a decreased role, which means less touches. What he brings to the table, scoring, Jimmy Butler & KAT already do well. So what does he do well enough to have an established, effective role on this team?

The star potential is there, and the organization obviously recognizes that, but with the team he's surrounded with, he will most likely have a Rudy Gay level career, which isn't a bad thing.

And for the record, I'd take either of Fultz, Embiid, Simmons & Covington over Wiggins any day

At age 23 Jimmy Butler was averaging 8.6 points per game. At age 24, 13 sporting a FG% of .397. I am sure everyone here thought Butler was a damn bust. I understand that there is some concerns about this game but the guy is 21. 21! Cut him some slack man.

Once again, incredibly misleading. If you want to guess the future, you have to look at the trajectory not at a set point in time. I won't draw a graph to show it, but it could look like the graph below, with the darker line being Butler (I'm color blind).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/Tlx85.png

Right now you are showing us 1955 on that graph and saying Wiggins is ahead of Butler. Even if it's true, the 4 years before that have shown a constant increase in Butler's ability. So, if you had to predict the future you would have to take that into account.

If you are 10 feet behind someone and you throw a ball at 20 miles per hour, while the other person is throwing a ball at 5 miles per hour. The ball thrown 10 feet behind will be behind for a time, but ultimately it will go further.

That's pretty much what Butler was. He was SO far behind Wiggins in high school. But he kept getting better and better faster than Wiggins is doing right now. Wiggins had Lebron type of hype in high school, but he didn't improve that much in college and he didn't improve that much so far in the NBA.

Like I said before, does it mean that Wiggins can't take the next step? No. Some players have had unexpected improvement later in their careers and Wiggins has all the tools. But it means it's less likely that he takes the next step. Wiggins isn't worth 148 million based on his play last year, I think most people agree. The argument made in this thread is that he will be worth it in 2 years. Maybe. But I don't think the odds are good enough right now to bet 148 million on it when the same bet will be available next year.

[caseyhampton]

He is still better and more proven then any guy in your sixers tank team, but keep hating man lol.

You got me wrong homie, I ain't hating, as a Sixers fan, I respect Wiggins and his ability to stay on the court ( ) he can get his at any given time if he's hot, but we're talking about a guy who:

-is an incapable defender
-is inefficient
-needs the ball to be effective.

With Jimmy Butler coming in, he will naturally have a decreased role, which means less touches. What he brings to the table, scoring, Jimmy Butler & KAT already do well. So what does he do well enough to have an established, effective role on this team?

The star potential is there, and the organization obviously recognizes that, but with the team he's surrounded with, he will most likely have a Rudy Gay level career, which isn't a bad thing.

And for the record, I'd take either of Fultz, Embiid, Simmons & Covington over Wiggins any day

At age 23 Jimmy Butler was averaging 8.6 points per game. At age 24, 13 sporting a FG% of .397. I am sure everyone here thought Butler was a damn bust. I understand that there is some concerns about this game but the guy is 21. 21! Cut him some slack man.

Context. Chicago blew up the team to build around Butler, setting him up in a position to fulfill his potential. The Butler trade by Minnesota is setting Wiggins up in a position to FAIL. Wiggins is a bad defender and NEEDS the ball in his hands to have a positive impact for his team. The same can be said for KAT. With Butler coming in, the Wolves basically told Wiggins that he's no longer Robin. Yet they still give him the max. It doesn't make sense to me, stacking Tetris blocks that don't fit. Who's gonna trade for Wiggins when his value naturally goes down from getting less & less touches? This signing IS a bad signing, I'd put money on it.

They should've traded Wiggins this upcoming season (or let him walk), and save the money for a free agent that's a good fit for KAT and Butler.

[Chevymana]

I focused a lot on the Twolves this past season because I felt that they were exciting to watch and got tired of seeing the same old teams play. One thing that I did notice is that Wiggins had improved a lot more, forget the stats for a minute. People forget that this team lost so many games by 5 points or less and easily should have been an above .500 team (had it not been for the youth factor).

The guy can play defense, it was just the defensive culture of this young team. I've watched him play fantastic man to man defense, only to do what a lot of young players do....lose focus. His rebounding can improve, but if you watch the games it is clear that the strategy is for him to leak most of the time; I've watched him hit the offensive glass and out jump/out position Lebron for put backs. He has also improved tremendously at his ball handling. He can now break down the defense and get his own shot with more than 3 dribbles. His shooting has improved. His assertiveness and aggression has come a long way. He hit a few game winners and was clutch in most games. He scored 40 or more in 5 or 6 games as a 21/22 yr old. He knows how to draw fouls at a good clip and his post game and fade away are now one of the best in basketball.

He is not worth the max...yet! But the downplay and weight put on stats isn't warranted.

[bake51]

The hate for Wiggins is real.

[dhsilv2]

Jimmy Butler was drafted as a defender and in a couple of seasons of working hard he was one of the few players that people thought could defend LeBron. His 3rd year his coach(Thibs) started using him more offensively which was probably also talked about during his exit meeting, that summer he locked himself in a gym working on his offensive game and became an all-star that next season and he's continued getting better the next 2 years. During Butler's whole career he's shown growth, defensive early on and now offensively.

Wiggins' had the keys to the franchise given to him, his 3rd year he was allowed to shoot the ball as much as he wanted(2nd most FGA in the NBA) and was average in efficiency and bad defensively. There's not been any growth shown other then shooting the ball more. Maybe someone like Butler can get him to reach his potential but if he doesn't Minnesota may be on the hook for a max contract guy dropping 18 ppg as a 3rd option with possibly average defense as the 3rd option of a good team.

So Butler was able to work hard and improve his weakest side of the ball, but people just can't grasp the fact that Wiggins could do the same. He's a bad defender at 22 years old so he'll forever be a bad defender.

Bad is unfortunately a complement for Wiggins defense. He makes harden look like a DPOY candidate.

[rugbyrugger23]

You got me wrong homie, I ain't hating, as a Sixers fan, I respect Wiggins and his ability to stay on the court ( ) he can get his at any given time if he's hot, but we're talking about a guy who:

-is an incapable defender
-is inefficient
-needs the ball to be effective.

With Jimmy Butler coming in, he will naturally have a decreased role, which means less touches. What he brings to the table, scoring, Jimmy Butler & KAT already do well. So what does he do well enough to have an established, effective role on this team?

The star potential is there, and the organization obviously recognizes that, but with the team he's surrounded with, he will most likely have a Rudy Gay level career, which isn't a bad thing.

And for the record, I'd take either of Fultz, Embiid, Simmons & Covington over Wiggins any day

At age 23 Jimmy Butler was averaging 8.6 points per game. At age 24, 13 sporting a FG% of .397. I am sure everyone here thought Butler was a damn bust. I understand that there is some concerns about this game but the guy is 21. 21! Cut him some slack man.

Context. Chicago blew up the team to build around Butler, setting him up in a position to fulfill his potential. The Butler trade by Minnesota is setting Wiggins up in a position to FAIL. Wiggins is a bad defender and NEEDS the ball in his hands to have a positive impact for his team. The same can be said for KAT. With Butler coming in, the Wolves basically told Wiggins that he's no longer Robin. Yet they still give him the max. It doesn't make sense to me, stacking Tetris blocks that don't fit. Who's gonna trade for Wiggins when his value naturally goes down from getting less & less touches? This signing IS a bad signing, I'd put money on it.

They should've traded Wiggins this upcoming season (or let him walk), and save the money for a free agent that's a good fit for KAT and Butler.

If we are really living in hindsight about trading Wiggins (or not)...

1. Thibs should have traded for Butler during 2016 draft -- even with the higher asking price. Wiggins + #5 for Butler + #14 would have more than got it done.

2. Wolves should not have extended Dieng (not that they shouldn't have signed him). Keep the extra cap open in 2017 offseason, and see what RFA would have meant (and evident with Noel, Mirotic, and others, could have been a contract win for Wolves).

3. We would have to assume, Butler planted in MN, the Irving wanting to join him, would have surfaced sooner. Wolves wouldn't be drafting 7th in 2017 Draft with Butler on the 2016/17 roster, but I am sure Wolves could have got Irving for: LaVine + 2017 1st + Rubio (or Rubio acquired asset) + 2016 #14 (from Bulls). *Side note, how interesting would it have been to see at least a season of LaVine next to Butler!!!

4. Wolves would have entered 2017 free agency with Butler + Irving + all kinds of cap space. Maybe Gibson still signs, but who could they have recruited to MN wanting to join Butler + Irving + Towns??? Does Hayward consider max in MN?

[karkinos]

defense or not, at just 21 years old, how many other prospects are as good a scorer as wiggins at his age?
cap space aside, if the wolves don't give him the max, another team out there will.
his advanced stats suck for now, but the eye test for me says there's a lot more to expect from him in the future. he has a really good outlook imo.

[caseyhampton]

defense or not, at just 21 years old, how many other prospects are as good a scorer as wiggins at his age?
cap space aside, if the wolves don't give him the max, another team out there will.
his advanced stats suck for now, but the eye test for me says there's a lot more to expect from him in the future. he has a really good outlook imo.

Just because another team would gladly pay him doesn't mean you have to. I like watching Wiggins play, his ability to score is absolutely elite. But in order for him to take the next step, he needs to be the #1 or at worst, the #2. His game isn't suited for a #3. At this point of his career, he's better playing on a rebuilding team, let him further perfect his craft.

[Zeitgeister]

Never said he can't, but with him showing really no growth in his game for 3 years other then shooting the ball more and having a better stroke from 3pt range, he's shown nearly 0 growth having 2 off seasons as a professional to get better and just hasn't, not at a noticeable rate. His rates of rebounding, assists, steals, blocks are nearly the same all 3 years. Does he have the chance to get better, maybe be great, absolutely all I'm saying is I don't think that chance is very big based off what I've seen his first 3 years in the league being handed the #1 option in Minnesota. Come on, he's still one of the worst defenders in the game still, with his athletic ability he should be a game changer on both sides and he's not, he's wasting his physical abilities.

Personally, I don't think he has the drive to reach his potential at the NBA level(which I could be wrong) and even if I were correct that could always change, maybe having some vets around(especially on the wing) who can push him daily could change that.

He hasn't shown a lot of statistical growth, but for the people who actually turn on the TV or online stream and actually watch the games (crazy concept, I know), he has grown since he came into the league.

What a BS response, I'm so tired of this crap. I watch the majority of TWolves games and AirP is right on the money.

[Vindicater]

Good signing.

Towns will get the next one and then we are mother **** good to go!

[Bertrob]

Good signing.

Towns will get the next one and then we are mother **** good to go!

What about the GOAT T Jones

[C_Alejandro]

This contract is seriously gonna be a big source of regret for the T-Wolves in the future.

[Hoopz Afrik]

I don't understand all the Andrew Wiggins hate. A lot of folks keep pointing to analytics but probably haven't watched him play since Kansas. Yeah, he has some limitations but he's 22 years old and is far from a finished product. He's definitely grown as a player (though the stats may not reflect it so much) as he is much more composed and better at picking his spots on offense. His defensive woes, while present, are a bit overstated. He had a hard time guarding bigger/stronger 3s when he was paired with Zach Lavine. Additionally, his bigger problem was rotations and finding his place within the Thibs defensive structure. I suspect Jimmy Butler's presence will help him moving to a more natural SG role will help improve his defensive productivity by leaps and bounds.

[clyde21]

Looks like it's a done deal. Should be done either today or tomorrow.

[AdagioPace]

defense or not, at just 21 years old, how many other prospects are as good a scorer as wiggins at his age?
cap space aside, if the wolves don't give him the max, another team out there will.
his advanced stats suck for now, but the eye test for me says there's a lot more to expect from him in the future. he has a really good outlook imo.

Just because another team would gladly pay him doesn't mean you have to. I like watching Wiggins play, his ability to score is absolutely elite. But in order for him to take the next step, he needs to be the #1 or at worst, the #2. His game isn't suited for a #3. At this point of his career, he's better playing on a rebuilding team, let him further perfect his craft.

he's like a "poor man 3rd option kobe"
Not good enough to be 1st and 2nd for a playoff team, and at the same time he doesn't have the skillset to capitalize from few FGA per game. As a 3rd option he could offer something else: rebounding? nope....defense? yikes

He might even have a higher offensive ceiling than KAT (who's a big and thus limited) and Butler,but as of now,he has a 1st option mentality trapped in a ....6th man body that brings some iso scoring off the bench

[karkinos]

This contract is seriously gonna be a big source of regret for the T-Wolves in the future.

you can always trade
*shrug*

[jbk1234]

I feel like Wiggins is the exact type of player you should let test the RFA market before handing him a deal like this. If he makes a jump this year, you match whatever offer is made. If there's fit issue with Teague, Butler and him, then maybe he depresses his value a little. In any event, I don't feel like locking him up for that fifth year (which based on reports he wants a P.O. for anyway), is worth the extra money you're going to commit to paying him.

[HoopsMalone]

This deal would be so cringeworthy if not for the fact that we saw guys like Noah, mozgov, turner, parsons, deng etc get much, much worse deals last year.

It's hilarious how much backlash there was when mike Conley got 5/$150 but wiggins is considered "market value" by many. Those guys have some similarities. They both play basketball. It's just that only one of them actually plays it well.

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