Who Wins the East?

[Wallace_Wallace]

There's simply not enough forwards to go at Lebron in the east. He could coast on defense and don't really have to worry about an elite forward making Lebron work. I haven't watched a lot of Jazz games, maybe Gordon Hayward has enough game to go at Lebron, but I don't know if it's enough to overcome the Cavs.

[Bobalob]

Cavs. Easy money.

1) Cavs actually have depth now.
2) The trade of Kyrie will actually galvanize this group
3) Boston got a little worse in the short term

[Bobalob]

Boston losing Avery Bradley, when really you shouldn't have had to, is gonna hurt them as far as this year's team.

[gino_giode]

There's simply not enough forwards to go at Lebron in the east. He could coast on defense and don't really have to worry about an elite forward making Lebron work. I haven't watched a lot of Jazz games, maybe Gordon Hayward has enough game to go at Lebron, but I don't know if it's enough to overcome the Cavs.

Hayward made LeBron work and then scored the game winner on the Cavs 3yrs ago.

Cavs may very well dominate the regular season, but come the playoffs their old depth will be gradually phased out. Too early to tell whethet new Celts will gel and Cavs have too many question mark pieces

[gino_giode]

Boston losing Avery Bradley, when really you shouldn't have had to, is gonna hurt them as far as this year's team.

I like him too, but I think they just didn't want to pay him too much on his next contract. They were anticipating Rozier, Smart to improve. And also needed to account for max or near max money to offer IT.

[NetsDynasty2012]

At least a couple of games, if not more...which of course would have meant 1st overall.

This also really only strengthens my belief that they can (pending health) quite easily either repeat their win total, if not surpass it. It also speaks to the addition of Ibaka that it improved the overall win percentage in that time frame just having a good PF and now they will be combining a healthy Lowry with Ibaka as the starting PF for the entire season instead of just a 1/3 of it. This is also without again factoring the removal of by far their worst "starter" DeMarre Carroll who isn't even a good option off the bench and was absolutely terrible defensively. Powell will be a huge improvement on that end (see Powell shutting down Middleton in the Bucks' series) and Miles will bring the shooting that Carroll didn't provide as well.

Injuries happen though, Bradley missed 27 games and Horford missed 14 games for the Celtics. Since imaginary Lowry is healthy, then they should be too, and the Celtics would win a few more games in that case, still out of the Raptors reach for the 1st seed.

Fair enough that the Celtics could have possibly been better too.

But that doesn't change that the Raptors could and likely would have been better with their best player who is easily better and more impactful than either of the 2 names you listed. We could also basically act as if the Raptors missed Ibaka missed 56 games because that's the difference in the time they were without him...so they didn't have Lowry for 22 games or Ibaka for 56 games, I'm inclined to think having those 2 back for majority of that plus removing Carroll for Powell and Miles alone will make quite a notable difference from last year.

Lowry is definitely better than Bradley and Horford, but let's not pretend missing your second and third-fourth best player for 14 and 27 games isn't significant. Hayward missed 82 games for the Celtics last season. Overall, both teams are very different than how they looked going into last season (Celtics more so obviously), it remains to be seen how it will exactly shakeout, but we shall see. I have the Celtics getting the first seed, largely because I think the whole needing time to build chemistry thing is overstated in general as there have been plenty newly put together highly talented teams that have hit the ground running, and also because I've seen Brad Stevens seamlessly implement players immediately with great success, such as when we traded for IT, and in his first season where there were new players on the roster every week. However, I've noticed a trend the last couple years of Stevens experimenting with lineups a lot in the beginning of the season to find out what works in what matchups and situations and so forth, but the effect on that should be mitigated by being able to have a 2nd capable scorer when Kyrie is on the bench in Hayward. Both teams are similar though in regards to their respective ceilings being dictated by the contributions of their young players though.

[Bobalob]

Boston losing Avery Bradley, when really you shouldn't have had to, is gonna hurt them as far as this year's team.

I like him too, but I think they just didn't want to pay him too much on his next contract. They were anticipating Rozier, Smart to improve. And also needed to account for max or near max money to offer IT.

Yea but thats next year. You're supposed to be in a championship window if you're Boston...key word supposed to. That goes back to the hilarity of how afraid of Lebron Ainge is. He doesnt even want to compete against him lol

Everyone says about the Cavs 'you're a GS injury away from a title'. Despite all their changes, no one says the same about Boston. I find that hilarious.

[PhilBlackson]

Lowry is definitely better than Bradley and Horford, but let's not pretend missing your second and third-fourth best player for 14 and 27 games isn't significant. Hayward missed 82 games for the Celtics last season. Overall, both teams are very different than how they looked going into last season (Celtics more so obviously), it remains to be seen how it will exactly shakeout, but we shall see. I have the Celtics getting the first seed, largely because I think the whole needing time to build chemistry thing is overstated in general as there have been plenty newly put together highly talented teams that have hit the ground running, and also because I've seen Brad Stevens seamlessly implement players immediately with great success, such as when we traded for IT, and in his first season where there were new players on the roster every week. However, I've noticed a trend the last couple years of Stevens experimenting with lineups a lot in the beginning of the season to find out what works in what matchups and situations and so forth, but the effect on that should be mitigated by being able to have a 2nd capable scorer when Kyrie is on the bench in Hayward. Both teams are similar though in regards to their respective ceilings being dictated by the contributions of their young players though.

Hey you don't have to sell me on the Celtics, just read my previous posts and I've already said that they're easily top 4 just that I'm not quite 100% that they're a LOCK for top 2. I already gave Stevens the credit for being an awesome coach that should know how to negate much of the ball stopping that occurs when Kyrie isos and most times goes tunnel vision and that he would likely do so through Hayward and Horford. But they still haven't addressed their lack of rim protection and become an even worse rebounding team (Morris I believe is under 5 rpg) and while Smart, Rozier etc are capable defenders, Bradley was the best one and Crowder helped with the larger SFs and some PFs so it's possible that rim protection will become an even greater issue, we'll see.

My post though wasn't targeted at the Celtics but rather just defending the Raptors because for some weird reason people keep acting like the Wizards (not the Celts) are some sure fire team to be ahead of them and the Bucks, yet in the Raptors case they've been ahead of the Wiz in the standings for how many years straight now??? So it had to be pointed out that it's puzzling to think project the Raptors as regressing from last year when they missed their best player, again how many people would pick the Wizards to be worse than last year if they missed Wall for more than a 1/4 of the season and presumed he would be healthy for the next?! If you missed Kyrie for 22 games, would you expect the Celtics to be worse upon his return?! lol that doesn't make sense.

Especially if you added another piece (ie/ Ibaka) that clearly improved your team. While not an exact comparison, it would be something like your Cs missing Kyrie for 1/4 of the season and Horford 3/4 of the season, why would anyone assume you won't be better with both the following year?? Then imagine that instead of Crowder or whoever as your starting SF you had to play Jerebko or Young who are both arguably better than Carroll because your coach is an idiot (thankfully for you guys he's not). That's the point....why would anyone assume you would be worse with the return of those players and a clear improvement at your SF position?! They wouldn't, that's all I'm saying.

[Wallace_Wallace]

There's simply not enough forwards to go at Lebron in the east. He could coast on defense and don't really have to worry about an elite forward making Lebron work. I haven't watched a lot of Jazz games, maybe Gordon Hayward has enough game to go at Lebron, but I don't know if it's enough to overcome the Cavs.

Hayward made LeBron work and then scored the game winner on the Cavs 3yrs ago.

Cavs may very well dominate the regular season, but come the playoffs their old depth will be gradually phased out. Too early to tell whethet new Celts will gel and Cavs have too many question mark pieces

That's true. Who knows, maybe a dark horse team like the Bucks could give the Cavs a run for their money (not sure if they can dethrone them or anything). Giannis could possibly THE guy to overcome Lebron.

[Fencer reregistered]

To be optimistic about the Celtics you have to be optimistic about player development.

IT was as good as Kyrie last season.

Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk, Johnson & Jerebko collectively made contributions that it will be hard for Hayward, Morris and Baynes to match.

But the player development angle is non-trivial.

Vet PGs generally get a lot better under Stevens.
Smart, Rozier and Brown are at various stages of "young".
The Celtics have added a lot of rookies, several of whom look like they COULD make immediate contributions (Theis because of his age/experience, Semi because of the simplicity of what he's supposed to contribute, and Tatum due to general awesomeness).

I think it will actually come together pretty fast.

[Asif16]

Man I truly find it laughable that people somehow think Wizards a tier above the Raps, and that the Raps arent even included in this scenario.

I have nothing against the Wiz. I think they're a great team and could very well be better than the Raps, but Until proven otherwise I'm really having a had time understanding why the Wiz is better right now.

And to answer the Thread, the Cavs are still winning the East. Their Depth is no match for anyone else in the East.

[Asif16]

There's simply not enough forwards to go at Lebron in the east. He could coast on defense and don't really have to worry about an elite forward making Lebron work. I haven't watched a lot of Jazz games, maybe Gordon Hayward has enough game to go at Lebron, but I don't know if it's enough to overcome the Cavs.

Hayward made LeBron work and then scored the game winner on the Cavs 3yrs ago.

Cavs may very well dominate the regular season, but come the playoffs their old depth will be gradually phased out. Too early to tell whethet new Celts will gel and Cavs have too many question mark pieces

That's true. Who knows, maybe a dark horse team like the Bucks could give the Cavs a run for their money (not sure if they can dethrone them or anything). Giannis could possibly THE guy to overcome Lebron.

Until he develops a Consistent Jumpshot, Its not happening. But he's def the closest compared to any other player in the East

[Perishable517]

I voted for the Wizards to get the first seed and then remembered that Morris is having surgery. Raptors get the 1st seed. Cavs still come out of the East (though I'm far more nervous than I've been at any time since 2014).

I like the Wizards' starting lineup but man, that lack of depth is frightening.

I think people underrate continuity going into the regular season. The NBA preseason is a joke. All anyone wants to do is get out healthy. Those games are essentially scrimmages. Coming back with the same starting unit is a big advantage in the first couple months of the season. Particularly when that starting unit is good. Teams that remake their rosters can chalk up a few loses just to figuring out how all the pieces fit together.

I think the Cavs will be in the ECF along with the Bucks this year.

I sent this poll to Giannis. He took offense that the Bucks weren't listed.

[jbk1234]

I like the Wizards' starting lineup but man, that lack of depth is frightening.

I think people underrate continuity going into the regular season. The NBA preseason is a joke. All anyone wants to do is get out healthy. Those games are essentially scrimmages. Coming back with the same starting unit is a big advantage in the first couple months of the season. Particularly when that starting unit is good. Teams that remake their rosters can chalk up a few loses just to figuring out how all the pieces fit together.

I think the Cavs will be in the ECF along with the Bucks this year.

I sent this poll to Giannis. He took offense that the Bucks weren't listed.

When is Parker due back?

[Perishable517]

All the big names of the sport have seen declines at this time.

Jabbar was a force until about his 18th season in the playoffs.

Just saying.

If Jordan would have continued playing, I'm sure he would have been. Same with Russell.

I, personally, wouldn't bet against one of the top 3 of all time.

[Perishable517]

I think people underrate continuity going into the regular season. The NBA preseason is a joke. All anyone wants to do is get out healthy. Those games are essentially scrimmages. Coming back with the same starting unit is a big advantage in the first couple months of the season. Particularly when that starting unit is good. Teams that remake their rosters can chalk up a few loses just to figuring out how all the pieces fit together.

I think the Cavs will be in the ECF along with the Bucks this year.

I sent this poll to Giannis. He took offense that the Bucks weren't listed.

When is Parker due back?

All star break??

[jbk1234]

I think the Cavs will be in the ECF along with the Bucks this year.

I sent this poll to Giannis. He took offense that the Bucks weren't listed.

When is Parker due back?

All star break??

Both Parker and Midds are pretty big keys to me. If Middelton wasn't fully recovered, but is this year, the Bucks will be better. If he's a different player after the hamstring injury, they won't. If Parker can get on the court and provide them with some shooting, they'll be better. If not, teams will still pack the paint in the post season against them. If Dwayne Casey can figure out your team, so can the rest of the league.

[CoachD]

lol...i guess i will go with "Other" pretty petty move. The Raptors have gone to ECF and have been the only team to beat the Cavs more then once...but sure lets piss off the biggest fanbase on Realgm.

It's not a disrespect thing? There are only 10 options for the poll. Cleveland and Boston were the 2 best teams in the East last year and are the favorites to be this season. And Toronto while being 2 wins ahead of Washington last season clearly downgraded (lost its 3rd, 4th, and 5th ranked in RPM on the team) while Washington's 3 main guys are young and in/approaching their primes so improvement makes more sense.

Sorry but the only guy of value Toronto lost was Tucker, and he played like hot trash in the playoffs.

Joseph, Patterson and Carroll will all have their value surpassed by their replacements.
Not to mention Powell will EXPLODE as a permanent fixture in the line up.

The ONLY reason Boston finished first was Lowry's injury, otherwise Toronto would have had the 1 seed. Boston never matches up well with Toronto and this season will be no different.

I have a weird feeling IT will miss most (if not all) of the season, and Cleveland will struggle for consistency at PG. Lowry will absolutely torch them. None of the Cavs guards can contain Derozan.

RPM god Bebe and the other young bigs will combine with a full season of Ibaka to give the Cavs front court (minus Lebron) trouble.

Lebron will be Lebron. But when he gets pushed out and forced into being a jumpshooter, he no longer has Kyrie bailing him out.

[Prez]

When is Parker due back?

All star break??

Both Parker and Midds are pretty big keys to me. If Middelton wasn't fully recovered, but is this year, the Bucks will be better. If he's a different player after the hamstring injury, they won't. If Parker can get on the court and provide them with some shooting, they'll be better. If not, teams will still pack the paint in the post season against them. If Dwayne Casey can figure out your team, so can the rest of the league.

Middleton is the real factor. Bucks went 19-10 with him and 17-6 with him starting, even with him as a shell of himself. Especially by April, dude wore down badly and his legs were completely shot by the playoffs. If he's back at 2015-16 level the Bucks are no worse than the 2-4 teams from last year. Reading good things recently about him getting back to 100%.

This is all only relevant to the RS standings and who makes the ECF though. If LeBron is LeBron no one is beating them in a series.

[NZB2323]

I think the Celtics win the regular season and the Cavs win the playoffs. The Celtics have always overachieved in the regular season under Brad Stevens, but in the playoffs no one is in the East is beating Lebron.