What's The Point of Having/Drafting a Natural SG and PF?

[HollowEarth]

The main positions are guard, wing and big. The five position method will be in usage for a long time for comparison purposes, but in terms of the logistics of the game itself, they've become obsolete.

They've been obsolete for decades. They're just used because they're descriptive. There's guys that handle the ball, guys that get rebounds and are hard to shoot over, and guys that are kind of in between.

Nah, I don't think so. The lines between power forwards and centers, small forwards and shooting guards, shooting guards and point guards were more definite until the late 2000s. Most players had one strict position they played.

Let's compare the All-NBA Teams of 2003 and 2017, for example. 2003 had Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Ben Wallace, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal, Jamal Mashburn, Paul Pierce, Stephon Marbury and Steve Nash. Only Duncan (C-PF) and Iverson (SG-PG) had debates going in regards to what their actual position was.

2017 had Anthony Davis, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Rudy Gobert, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, Isaiah Thomas, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan and John Wall. Davis (C-PF), LeBron (SF-PG), Harden (SG-PG), Giannis (PF-SF) and Butler (SF-SG) are frequently mentioned in actual position debates. Steph and Russ are among the players who changed the definition of the point guard, many argued they were actually SGs for a long time. Additionally, Draymond and KD frequently move up a position and play C and PF, respectively.

When you go beyond the All-NBA Teams, the discrepancy is even larger.

It wasn't their full time position to be sure, but Chris Webber and Dirk both played center at points. Ben Wallace was always considered a center, but once Rasheed got there he would defend the best post player so that Ben Wallace could play more help defense.

Kobe I think illustrates the point really well, because the Lakers viewed having Kobe and Eddie Jones at the same time as a problem. I think a lot the rigidity came not from the players, but the coaches and front offices.

[NotReady]

They've been obsolete for decades. They're just used because they're descriptive. There's guys that handle the ball, guys that get rebounds and are hard to shoot over, and guys that are kind of in between.

Nah, I don't think so. The lines between power forwards and centers, small forwards and shooting guards, shooting guards and point guards were more definite until the late 2000s. Most players had one strict position they played.

Let's compare the All-NBA Teams of 2003 and 2017, for example. 2003 had Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Ben Wallace, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal, Jamal Mashburn, Paul Pierce, Stephon Marbury and Steve Nash. Only Duncan (C-PF) and Iverson (SG-PG) had debates going in regards to what their actual position was.

2017 had Anthony Davis, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Rudy Gobert, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, Isaiah Thomas, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan and John Wall. Davis (C-PF), LeBron (SF-PG), Harden (SG-PG), Giannis (PF-SF) and Butler (SF-SG) are frequently mentioned in actual position debates. Steph and Russ are among the players who changed the definition of the point guard, many argued they were actually SGs for a long time. Additionally, Draymond and KD frequently move up a position and play C and PF, respectively.

When you go beyond the All-NBA Teams, the discrepancy is even larger.

Tracy McGrady wasn't known as a SG more than a SF. Mashburn was a swing, he was only defined as a SF because Jimmy Jackson was a SG back when they were a trio with Kidd. Paul Pierce is a SF, I'll grant you that, but that doesn't do much as far as today's game because the OP still thinks SF exists.

You're right about Nash, Marbury, Kidd, O'Neal, etc being strict positional players, but that has less to do with the positions and more to do with them as players.

[Black Mage]

I don't know if it is so much that the positions are going extinct or if it is more that the talent coming in at these positions has dried up.

The center position had a horrible drought in talent for awhile, but now with the likes of Embiid, Jokic and others the center is becoming more valuable. Right now it just seems like all the top talents are coming out as PG or SF. The cycle will get back to SG and PF soon enough.

[HoopsMalone]

Honestly pretty confident in saying the league is moving toward these 5 positions:

PG-ish
Wing
Wing
Wing
C-ish

Outside of needing someone with good distributing and someone with rim protection, what do these positions even matter anymore?

This is exactly it. You really want your three wings to be almost interchangeable that way you can switch on screens and gang rebound to make up for not having a true power forward. You don't want one of your "wings" to be a guy like Derrick Favors without 3pt range because it clogs up spacing way too much.

[Young_Star11]

The categories are now Ballhandlers, Wings and Bigs

Traditional PFs are going to struggle if they can't slide to the 5, hit a perimeter shot

Traditional SGs will do to unless you carve out a career like JJ Redick.

[Pennebaker]

In today's NBA a SG is an oversized PG who lacks PG skills and a PF is a center who can't defend centers but takes mid-range shots(there's only a few exceptions to this one). If I'm building a contender why would I invest valuable resources into these positions? The SG position is so worthless that Jaylen Brown, a 6'7 225 player, can instantly play it with almost no experience. Need a PF? Just slide a 6'8 230 pound SF over to PF and he could do everything a PF does. When Horford is considered, at this point of the season, the best PF in the league then something might be wrong. OKC is a top defense in the league yet they're playing a 33yo Melo at PF.

If I'm deciding which player a team draft's then I'm picking a PG, SF or C if all options are talented players(very few exceptions). Yeah, Porzingis is great but he's not going to impact the game as much as a "center version" of Porzingis who can impact a game on both ends.

The last 3 PFs who was drafted #1 overall was Bennett(2013), Griffin(2009) and Bargnani(2006). 2 of those 3 names are unfathomably terrible players. As for SG I couldn't even tell you the last time a true SG was drafted #1. As far as I know, it's never happened.

Can anyone convince me that these 2 positions have any value?

You're thinking about this all wrong. Forget about positions. You should draft the best talent regardless of whatever position you think they should fit into.

[Jables]

SGs are worthless because Brown is playing well as one with no experience? Ben Simmons doing any damage to the reputation of PGs because he's probably going to be an All Star there? He was a PF when he was picked. Giannis putting most positions to shame as well. If you're gonna argue they weren't natural Power Forwards coming into the NBA, Brown was a player drafted as a, wait for it .... 'SG/SF'. So I'd say he knows what he's doing there.

You don't 'need' any single position. Bosh, Wade, Klay, Allen, Manu, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, what's the point of having natural Shooting Guards and Power Forwards like that? Rings I guess.

Wasn't long ago that star PGs were considered the least necessary for a ring, put a **** of talent on a team and it'll win even if it has some holes or goes against the grain.

Versatility is always great to have, but if a guy can give you great production, they are a valuable player, full stop.

[draftnightsuit]

Porzingis is a center. Not sure why people think otherwise. He plays PF for the Knicks but that doesn't make him one.

Porzingis is a 7’3” small forward.