2018 MVP Discussion Pt II

[Dopeness]

the problem is Durant is not even having a good year statistically. PER inflates big man but KD isn't even doing well on that. He is playing his worst level in 5 years and how is he winning MVP?

I honestly think this is KD's best year, if you factor in being a complete player. You cant use his down year scoring wise to fault him, that was expected and reasoning behind it because hes playing with another MVP candidate.

But hes improved vastly in all other areas of his game, cant say hes having his worst season in 5 years.

i dont see how a few more blocks make him a complete player while his on/off , BPM, offensive rating, rebounding all down and TO% and USG% are up. KD is clearly not as good as he used to be.

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

[cpower]

I honestly think this is KD's best year, if you factor in being a complete player. You cant use his down year scoring wise to fault him, that was expected and reasoning behind it because hes playing with another MVP candidate.

But hes improved vastly in all other areas of his game, cant say hes having his worst season in 5 years.

i dont see how a few more blocks make him a complete player while his on/off , BPM, offensive rating, rebounding all down and TO% and USG% are up. KD is clearly not as good as he used to be.

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

No i feel he peaked in OKC where he was more dynamic and overall better offensively. The adjustment to warriors system has not been the best, he is essentially the same player with a lot of ball holding and iso play. On the defensive end he gets more block due to warriors good disciplined defense but his D is not consistent. He is an elite offensive player who gets overshadowed by the gravity of Stephen Curry.

[K_chile22]

Barring suspension, Harden looks like he will be back Thursday

[Boarder Patrol]

I honestly think this is KD's best year, if you factor in being a complete player. You cant use his down year scoring wise to fault him, that was expected and reasoning behind it because hes playing with another MVP candidate.

But hes improved vastly in all other areas of his game, cant say hes having his worst season in 5 years.

i dont see how a few more blocks make him a complete player while his on/off , BPM, offensive rating, rebounding all down and TO% and USG% are up. KD is clearly not as good as he used to be.

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

Agree with this - Warriors don't play for stats, they play for the team (and at times just don't care that much during RS games). That's why they're successful. Watching the games, it seems Durant needs to expend far less energy on offense while still scoring efficiently and it's allowing him to really focus on D.

[Impuniti]

I honestly think this is KD's best year, if you factor in being a complete player. You cant use his down year scoring wise to fault him, that was expected and reasoning behind it because hes playing with another MVP candidate.

But hes improved vastly in all other areas of his game, cant say hes having his worst season in 5 years.

i dont see how a few more blocks make him a complete player while his on/off , BPM, offensive rating, rebounding all down and TO% and USG% are up. KD is clearly not as good as he used to be.

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

You can talk about eye test all you want, but he was definitely better last year by some distance. He was also playing more off the ball. Offensively this year, he's basically reverted to OKC ISO Durant, he's just a freak that still obliterates everyone regardless just to a lesser degree than pre-injury of last season. Defensively he hasn't better than last season.

[RCM88x]

I honestly think this is KD's best year, if you factor in being a complete player. You cant use his down year scoring wise to fault him, that was expected and reasoning behind it because hes playing with another MVP candidate.

But hes improved vastly in all other areas of his game, cant say hes having his worst season in 5 years.

i dont see how a few more blocks make him a complete player while his on/off , BPM, offensive rating, rebounding all down and TO% and USG% are up. KD is clearly not as good as he used to be.

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

He did have a pretty severe foot injury a a few years ago. I don't think he's truly ever regained his pre-injury form, at least offensively. He's probably a more disciplined and patient player now which allows him to utilize his size a bit better on both sides of the ball, but overall he just doesn't have the same impact despite still putting up good box scores.

[Magic Giannison]

Read on Twitter

A little graph showcasing Giannis impact and the players around him.

[clyde21]

Net On/Off
Butler +19.2
Antetokounmpo +16.3
Curry +12.4
Davis +12.3
Harden +6.6
Irving +6.3
Durant +1.4
DeRozan -.8
James -2.6

This is probably the first year ever that LeBron didn't dominate in this stat. Even more shocking that he's in the negatives.

[LeBird]

This is probably the first year ever that LeBron didn't dominate in this stat. Even more shocking that he's in the negatives.

It's not when you watch his team.

[Dupp]

This is probably the first year ever that LeBron didn't dominate in this stat. Even more shocking that he's in the negatives.

It's not when you watch his team.

The bench is good ( even though TT trying to ruin it) and the starters suck so no surprise. Hasnt typically been the case for lebron teams.

[Joey Wheeler]

Davis should be getting some serious consideration here, he's my pick actually. Another monster game last night in Boston. Also unlike most of the names being discussed, he's actually elite on both ends of the floor, mega efficient scorer and one of the league's best defenders...

I know the Pelicans record isn't great, but they don't have a very good roster or coaching. It's similar to the situation with Giannis in Milwaukee. Davis has a better #2 in Cousins, Giannis has the better overall roster, both have very suspect coaching...

[RaptorsLife]

I would love to pelicans go on a run and AD make a case

[Screwston]

Net On/Off
Butler +19.2
Antetokounmpo +16.3
Curry +12.4
Davis +12.3
Harden +6.6
Irving +6.3
Durant +1.4
DeRozan -.8
James -2.6

This is probably the first year ever that LeBron didn't dominate in this stat. Even more shocking that he's in the negatives.

Wasn't that one of the most used argument last year in LeBron's case for mvp? Or that stat doesn't matter this year?

Dude is a negative AHAHAHA

Mvp with negative on/off LOL has that ever happened? Doubt it

[Sark]

i dont see how a few more blocks make him a complete player while his on/off , BPM, offensive rating, rebounding all down and TO% and USG% are up. KD is clearly not as good as he used to be.

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

Agree with this - Warriors don't play for stats, they play for the team (and at times just don't care that much during RS games). That's why they're successful. Watching the games, it seems Durant needs to expend far less energy on offense while still scoring efficiently and it's allowing him to really focus on D.

It's almost as if he were playing with All Stars and All NBA players at nearly every position.

Oh wait...


I guess context matters.

[eminence]

Net On/Off
Butler +19.2
Antetokounmpo +16.3
Curry +12.4
Davis +12.3
Harden +6.6
Irving +6.3
Durant +1.4
DeRozan -.8
James -2.6

This is probably the first year ever that LeBron didn't dominate in this stat. Even more shocking that he's in the negatives.

Wasn't that one of the most used argument last year in LeBron's case for mvp? Or that stat doesn't matter this year?

Dude is a negative AHAHAHA

Mvp with negative on/off LOL has that ever happened? Doubt it

Nope, lowest was '11 Rose at +2.7

[Boarder Patrol]

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

Agree with this - Warriors don't play for stats, they play for the team (and at times just don't care that much during RS games). That's why they're successful. Watching the games, it seems Durant needs to expend far less energy on offense while still scoring efficiently and it's allowing him to really focus on D.

It's almost as if he were playing with All Stars and All NBA players at nearly every position.

Oh wait...


I guess context matters.

What did I say in my post that goes against this? I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.

--

Net On/Off
Butler +19.2
Antetokounmpo +16.3
Curry +12.4
Davis +12.3
Harden +6.6
Irving +6.3
Durant +1.4
DeRozan -.8
James -2.6

This is probably the first year ever that LeBron didn't dominate in this stat. Even more shocking that he's in the negatives.

Wasn't that one of the most used argument last year in LeBron's case for mvp? Or that stat doesn't matter this year? --> <--

Dude is a negative AHAHAHA

Mvp with negative on/off LOL has that ever happened? Doubt it

Dude if you find basketball plus-minus this funny I really think you need to find some different sources of humor

[clyde21]

Eye test tells me otherwise.

You feel like KD’s decline has been age related or hes just a worse player now then when he was on OKC?

I know hes down statistically but I feel like this is his most “complete” year as a player offensively and defensively.

Agree with this - Warriors don't play for stats, they play for the team (and at times just don't care that much during RS games). That's why they're successful. Watching the games, it seems Durant needs to expend far less energy on offense while still scoring efficiently and it's allowing him to really focus on D.

It's almost as if he were playing with All Stars and All NBA players at nearly every position.

Oh wait...


I guess context matters.

True to some extent.

Durant TS% without Steph: 61.7%
Durant TS% with Steph: 65.9%

Steph TS% without Durant: 69.2 TS%
Steph TS% with Durant: 65.2 TS%

The insane part is that Steph has a almost 70 TS% without Durant on the court this season.

[Sark]

Agree with this - Warriors don't play for stats, they play for the team (and at times just don't care that much during RS games). That's why they're successful. Watching the games, it seems Durant needs to expend far less energy on offense while still scoring efficiently and it's allowing him to really focus on D.

It's almost as if he were playing with All Stars and All NBA players at nearly every position.

Oh wait...


I guess context matters.

True to some extent.

Durant TS% without Steph: 61.7%
Durant TS% with Steph: 65.9%

Steph TS% without Durant: 69.2 TS%
Steph TS% with Durant: 65.2 TS%

The insane part is that Steph has a almost 70 TS% without Durant on the court this season.

eFg% is probably better to look at for on/off since FT% isn't part of the formula. If KD is bricking FTs with Curry on the bench, you can't really attribute that to another player.

[clyde21]

It's almost as if he were playing with All Stars and All NBA players at nearly every position.

Oh wait...


I guess context matters.

True to some extent.

Durant TS% without Steph: 61.7%
Durant TS% with Steph: 65.9%

Steph TS% without Durant: 69.2 TS%
Steph TS% with Durant: 65.2 TS%

The insane part is that Steph has a almost 70 TS% without Durant on the court this season.

eFg% is probably better to look at for on/off since FT% isn't part of the formula. If KD is bricking FTs with Curry on the bench, you can't really attribute that to another player.

Okie

eFG% without Steph: 56.5
eFG% with Steph: 61.2

An even larger discrepancy.

[GooniesNeverDie]

Im going:

1) Harden - no one has seperated themselves from him while he's been hurt. I hate him but he's been great this season.
2) Curry - i still think he's the most impactful and the best player on the best team. he raises their ceiling, kd their floor.
3) Giannis - if only his team could hit 50 wins.