The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[PaKii94]

Mitchell with another 23 point night but Utah lost by 19 points with DM getting 2 assists and Rubio getting ZERO assists. Utah with 10 assists on the game. That's horrendous.

I know Mitchell is good offensively but in a re-draft Lonzo over DM all over again. As for Lonzo's ceiling being Rubio, good god mates. Where are all these haters now? 0 assists and 2 turnovers for Rubio. That is not Lonzo-esque.

Lol wow, what a comparison of a yuge sample size of...one game

[clyde21]

Eric Gordon. That's who Donovan Mitchell reminds me of. But longer, even more athletic and just better in almost every way.

[Rauxcee]

Mitchell with another 23 point night but Utah lost by 19 points with DM getting 2 assists and Rubio getting ZERO assists. Utah with 10 assists on the game. That's horrendous.

I know Mitchell is good offensively but in a re-draft Lonzo over DM all over again. As for Lonzo's ceiling being Rubio, good god mates. Where are all these haters now? 0 assists and 2 turnovers for Rubio. That is not Lonzo-esque.

You do realize for players to get an assist their teammates have to make a basket? Something the entire Jazz roster is incapable of doing except for Mitchell.

[HeartBreakKid]

Did someone really cite Kevin Pelton as an authority?

Anyone that thinks Ben Simmons is the best rookie ever flat out doesn't know how to evaluate basketball. Someone citing Kevin Pelton as a source is totally oblivious to how sports journalism works...it's called clickbait.

Ben Simmons is not even the best rookie of his era - there are players who were SUPERSTARS their first seasons. Ben Simmons at this point doesn't even deserve to make the All-Star team in the weaker conference...

And no..he is not as good as Jason Kidd. Stop blindly posting statlines without analyzing it. Lonzo Ball for examplel has a pretty statline while playing defense and it's obvious he's not a good player yet.


Ben Simmons is a good player, but he's not anywhere near the GOAT rookie. I don't care how many arbitrary "he's the only guy to average 16 points, 7.845353 rebounds, 7.53532 assist while also having one shoe lace untied every other game" records he has, those are sports trivia they do not mean anything. Actually argue his impact, not post some gimmicky ass sports articles.

Again, if you are claiming Ben Simmons is the GOAT rookie you are claiming he is a superstar already. If Embiid is better than him, that means Philly has TWO superstars yet are struggling to make the playoffs in the weaker conference - that doesn't happen even if the rest of the roster is bad (and it's not that bad, there are a couple of decent players outside of those two).

[eminence]

Did someone really cite Kevin Pelton as an authority?

Anyone that thinks Ben Simmons is the best rookie ever flat out doesn't know how to evaluate basketball. Someone citing Kevin Pelton as a source is totally oblivious to how sports journalism works...it's called clickbait.

Ben Simmons is not even the best rookie of his era - there are players who were SUPERSTARS their first seasons. Ben Simmons at this point doesn't even deserve to make the All-Star team in the weaker conference...

And no..he is not as good as Jason Kidd. Stop blindly posting statlines without analyzing it. Lonzo Ball for examplel has a pretty statline while playing defense and it's obvious he's not a good player yet.


Ben Simmons is a good player, but he's not anywhere near the GOAT rookie. I don't care how many arbitrary "he's the only guy to average 16 points, 7.845353 rebounds, 7.53532 assist while also having one shoe lace untied every other game" records he has, those are sports trivia they do not mean anything. Actually argue his impact, not post some gimmicky ass sports articles.

Again, if you are claiming Ben Simmons is the GOAT rookie you are claiming he is a superstar already. If Embiid is better than him, that means Philly has TWO superstars yet are struggling to make the playoffs in the weaker conference - that doesn't happen even if the rest of the roster is bad (and it's not that bad, there are a couple of decent players outside of those two).

To be fair to Pelton, when you read the article he just says Simmons might be the most versatile rookie since '74 (don't remember year for sure). Not sure how he comes to that conclusion either (Magic/Bird), but he has some weird metric that is supposed to measure versatility and Simmons comes out very high in it. Overall a lot less ridiculous than claiming he's the best rookie ever.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Mitchell with another 23 point night but Utah lost by 19 points with DM getting 2 assists and Rubio getting ZERO assists. Utah with 10 assists on the game. That's horrendous.

I know Mitchell is good offensively but in a re-draft Lonzo over DM all over again. As for Lonzo's ceiling being Rubio, good god mates. Where are all these haters now? 0 assists and 2 turnovers for Rubio. That is not Lonzo-esque.

And Laker fans wonder why everyone is sick of hearing about Ball.

Why do you have to bag other players in order to prop up Ball?

[HeartBreakKid]

Did someone really cite Kevin Pelton as an authority?

Anyone that thinks Ben Simmons is the best rookie ever flat out doesn't know how to evaluate basketball. Someone citing Kevin Pelton as a source is totally oblivious to how sports journalism works...it's called clickbait.

Ben Simmons is not even the best rookie of his era - there are players who were SUPERSTARS their first seasons. Ben Simmons at this point doesn't even deserve to make the All-Star team in the weaker conference...

And no..he is not as good as Jason Kidd. Stop blindly posting statlines without analyzing it. Lonzo Ball for examplel has a pretty statline while playing defense and it's obvious he's not a good player yet.


Ben Simmons is a good player, but he's not anywhere near the GOAT rookie. I don't care how many arbitrary "he's the only guy to average 16 points, 7.845353 rebounds, 7.53532 assist while also having one shoe lace untied every other game" records he has, those are sports trivia they do not mean anything. Actually argue his impact, not post some gimmicky ass sports articles.

Again, if you are claiming Ben Simmons is the GOAT rookie you are claiming he is a superstar already. If Embiid is better than him, that means Philly has TWO superstars yet are struggling to make the playoffs in the weaker conference - that doesn't happen even if the rest of the roster is bad (and it's not that bad, there are a couple of decent players outside of those two).

To be fair to Pelton, when you read the article he just says Simmons might be the most versatile rookie since '74 (don't remember year for sure). Not sure how he comes to that conclusion either (Magic/Bird), but he has some weird metric that is supposed to measure versatility and Simmons comes out very high in it. Overall a lot less ridiculous than claiming he's the best rookie ever.

Thank God, I thought I missed something in that article because I could have sworn we were talking versatility before. Saying he's the best rookie ever is beyond some Skip Bayless stuff.

[LakersSoul]

Mitchell with another 23 point night but Utah lost by 19 points with DM getting 2 assists and Rubio getting ZERO assists. Utah with 10 assists on the game. That's horrendous.

I know Mitchell is good offensively but in a re-draft Lonzo over DM all over again. As for Lonzo's ceiling being Rubio, good god mates. Where are all these haters now? 0 assists and 2 turnovers for Rubio. That is not Lonzo-esque.

And Laker fans wonder why everyone is sick of hearing about Ball.

Why do you have to bag other players in order to prop up Ball?

One Boston fan that placed the ceiling of Lonzo Ball as Rubio comes out from the shadows.

[KqWIN]

This thread has gone to the next level. Not only are we bagging one player to pump up another, we are now bagging on one player's teammate to prop up another

[Moonbeam]

Mitchell with another 23 point night but Utah lost by 19 points with DM getting 2 assists and Rubio getting ZERO assists. Utah with 10 assists on the game. That's horrendous.

I know Mitchell is good offensively but in a re-draft Lonzo over DM all over again. As for Lonzo's ceiling being Rubio, good god mates. Where are all these haters now? 0 assists and 2 turnovers for Rubio. That is not Lonzo-esque.

Mitchell created a lot of good open looks for teammates that they missed. Sometimes that happens. From what I have seen, Mitchell is a decent playmaker with the potential to be quite good as he continues to draw more attention from the defense due to his scoring ability.

[Higgs Boston]

Mitchell has few assists: he is only a scorer.
Lonzo has few assists: it's not his fault, his teammates suck, you shouldn't look at his stats, his impact is incredible.

Who needs to watch the games when you can create your own reality?

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[LakersSoul]

Mitchell has few assists: he is only a scorer.
Lonzo has few assists: it's not his fault, his teammates suck, you shouldn't look at his stats, his impact is incredible.

Who needs to watch the games when you can create your own reality?

Are you seriously making a statement and comparing assists between Lonzo and Mitchell?

Lonzo collects 7.1 assists per game which is #8 in the whole NBA and #1 for 2017 drafted rookies.
DM scores a ton but provides less than half of Lonzo's assist total at 3.4 apg.
Lonzo has an assist-to-turnover ratio of 2.6 while DM is at an embarrassing 1.33.

Lonzo is a pace and passing machine while DM is a scoring machine and not much of a passer/assist guy. Lonzo will get better at scoring as he matures but I doubt DM will ever turn into an unselfish passer like Lonzo. Nothing wrong with being a pure scorer but lets not justify the low assist level as anything different than the two players makeup.

[LakersSoul]

Read on Twitter

Is that right?

Has NY never had a player get a triple double with points, assists and rebounding? Or does the 2 blocks eliminate a few guards and make this a meaningless stat?

[Higgs Boston]

Mitchell has few assists: he is only a scorer.
Lonzo has few assists: it's not his fault, his teammates suck, you shouldn't look at his stats, his impact is incredible.

Who needs to watch the games when you can create your own reality?

Are you seriously making a statement and comparing assists between Lonzo and Mitchell?

Lonzo collects 7.1 assists per game which is #8 in the whole NBA and #1 for 2017 drafted rookies.
DM scores a ton but provides less than half of Lonzo's assist total at 3.4 apg.
Lonzo has an assist-to-turnover ratio of 2.6 while DM is at an embarrassing 1.33.

Lonzo is a pace and passing machine while DM is a scoring machine and not much of a passer/assist guy. Lonzo will get better at scoring as he matures but I doubt DM will ever turn into an unselfish passer like Lonzo. Nothing wrong with being a pure scorer but lets not justify the low assist level as anything different than the two players makeup.

you didn't get my point, you were talking about mitchell and his low assists like he only was able to score or that he was a bad playmaker, something that others has made too. Mitchell isn't a pass first PG like Ball, but he is rather better passer than what the amount of assists is showing.
My post was more like a comment to all people that said it, I just did think that It was a good timing to write it when I did read your comment.

[Moonbeam]

Mitchell has few assists: he is only a scorer.
Lonzo has few assists: it's not his fault, his teammates suck, you shouldn't look at his stats, his impact is incredible.

Who needs to watch the games when you can create your own reality?

Are you seriously making a statement and comparing assists between Lonzo and Mitchell?

Lonzo collects 7.1 assists per game which is #8 in the whole NBA and #1 for 2017 drafted rookies.
DM scores a ton but provides less than half of Lonzo's assist total at 3.4 apg.
Lonzo has an assist-to-turnover ratio of 2.6 while DM is at an embarrassing 1.33.

Lonzo is a pace and passing machine while DM is a scoring machine and not much of a passer/assist guy. Lonzo will get better at scoring as he matures but I doubt DM will ever turn into an unselfish passer like Lonzo. Nothing wrong with being a pure scorer but lets not justify the low assist level as anything different than the two players makeup.

Incredibly biased take. It seems petty to bring up Mitchell's assists out of the blue as you did after the Jazz game and then try to prop up Lonzo.

Both Lonzo and Mitchell are promising rookies. They have different strengths. There is no reason to doubt that either one will improve on areas of the game where they aren't as strong.

I don't understand why it is so difficult to enjoy the spoils of this great rookie class without the need to diminish what other guys are doing.

[Fencer reregistered]

Read on Twitter

Is that right?

Has NY never had a player get a triple double with points, assists and rebounding? Or does the 2 blocks eliminate a few guards and make this a meaningless stat?

Basketball Reference doesn't show block stats before the 1973-4 season.

[Kolkmania]

I've watched every second of Simmons and he's been so much better than I expected, but he's nowhere near a superstar yet. For Philly it all stands or falls with Joel Embiid.

Simmons does show flashes, especially when he's aggressive, and imo that's one of the most important things for rookies. I don't really care for questionable efficiency if a rookie is having a massive role. The combination of size, coordination, speed and ball handling skills is something I have never seen (I'm just 25 years old though ), but for Simmons to truly reach superstar territory, that jumpshot has to become respectable.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Mitchell with another 23 point night but Utah lost by 19 points with DM getting 2 assists and Rubio getting ZERO assists. Utah with 10 assists on the game. That's horrendous.

I know Mitchell is good offensively but in a re-draft Lonzo over DM all over again. As for Lonzo's ceiling being Rubio, good god mates. Where are all these haters now? 0 assists and 2 turnovers for Rubio. That is not Lonzo-esque.

Generally, if you have to crap on one guy to prop up another, your point is wrong. It’s not a zero sum game and Mitchell has no impact on how Lonzo performs.

[MartyConlonJr]

Read on Twitter

Is that right?

Has NY never had a player get a triple double with points, assists and rebounding? Or does the 2 blocks eliminate a few guards and make this a meaningless stat?

How many Knicks rookies in the last 40 years would you expect to get within 3 assists of a triple double, with 2 blocks?

They went through a period of about 20 years where they gave away every high draft pick to get stars so they wouldn't have many players to compete for this stat.

Also 9 other guys did it without (or before tracking) blocks linky