Is Isaiah Thomas washed up or just ridiculously rusty?

[G35]

Who the hell do you mean by "you guys"?

You guys would mean you and the other guys =)

And have you stopped beating your wife?

A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife.

Pulling out the big guns.....

[levon]

I don't know if he's just gonna get his legs back. Maybe in stretches, but you get tired deep into the playoffs running against the Raps and Warriors. This might just be post-injury IT.

[reborn123]

Isaiah said so himself, he still doesn't have his legs under him. This is such a kneejerk thread. The more underlying problem I see is JR Smith not getting it done on the defensive end. He's one of the worse perimeter defenders in the NBA. And Shumpert hasn't been productive at all in months now. There's really no upside to keeping JR, he's getting older; Cavs are better off starting and developing Osman, who (in smaller sample sizes) has better shooting percentages (including 3P% and FT%), plays with more energy and has a significantly wider frame, with an eye at playing him heavier minutes in the playoffs.

Offense isn't a problem, with guys like Love, Korver, Wade and IT alongside LeBron, they've got more than enough to score with the best. They need hustle, energy and defense, things guys like Thompson, Shumpert and Smith can't seem to provide anymore.

[sicknastydunker]

He's not washed up, this is just who he is. He's a bench scorer that was placed in an alpha dog role in a good system in Boston.

Cavs need to expect Sacramento/Phoenix IT. A similar player to Louis Williams. Really a guy who should come off the bench

[gino_giode]

Isaiah is a nice guy and all.. but what's going on with him right now is really difficult to overlook. Especially when he doesn't give you anything on the defensive end. We knew he wouldn't ever be the 24+ppg scorer he was with Boston thanks to LeBron ball.. but it looks like he has definitely lost a step or two and maybe was a product of Stevens' system.

Definitely. Curry was blowing by him routinely in the 4th. Curry usually doesn't do that vs PGs.

[R-DAWG]

Isaiah said so himself, he still doesn't have his legs under him. This is such a kneejerk thread. The more underlying problem I see is JR Smith not getting it done on the defensive end. He's one of the worse perimeter defenders in the NBA. And Shumpert hasn't been productive at all in months now. There's really no upside to keeping JR, he's getting older; Cavs are better off starting and developing Osman, who (in smaller sample sizes) has better shooting percentages (including 3P% and FT%), plays with more energy and has a significantly wider frame, with an eye at playing him heavier minutes in the playoffs.

Offense isn't a problem, with guys like Love, Korver, Wade and IT alongside LeBron, they've got more than enough to score with the best. They need hustle, energy and defense, things guys like Thompson, Shumpert and Smith can't seem to provide anymore.

This is a great point. JR looks like he lost a few steps and Shumpert is always hurt. JR and Shump were a band-aid at the SG position and with Golden State getting Durant and Smith/Shump getting older and regressing, it just isn't good enough. Combine that with Tristan Thompson being terrible and it's just a mess.

I wounder if they added DeAndre Jordan and Kent Bazemore if that moves the needle enough?

[UberRebel]

Isaiah said so himself, he still doesn't have his legs under him. This is such a kneejerk thread. The more underlying problem I see is JR Smith not getting it done on the defensive end. He's one of the worse perimeter defenders in the NBA. And Shumpert hasn't been productive at all in months now. There's really no upside to keeping JR, he's getting older; Cavs are better off starting and developing Osman, who (in smaller sample sizes) has better shooting percentages (including 3P% and FT%), plays with more energy and has a significantly wider frame, with an eye at playing him heavier minutes in the playoffs.

Offense isn't a problem, with guys like Love, Korver, Wade and IT alongside LeBron, they've got more than enough to score with the best. They need hustle, energy and defense, things guys like Thompson, Shumpert and Smith can't seem to provide anymore.

Isaiah Thomas
JR Smith
Kevin Love
Jeff Green
Dwyane Wade

If you have this many atrocious defenders in your top 9, plus Lebron is coasting on defense, wow

[R-DAWG]

He's not washed up, this is just who he is. He's a bench scorer that was placed in an alpha dog role in a good system in Boston.

Cavs need to expect Sacramento/Phoenix IT. A similar player to Louis Williams. Really a guy who should come off the bench

he was a starter in SAC. I don't think it's fair to call him a bench player. It is pair to say that last season was probably an anomaly and he should show a regression to the mean. If you look at his Boston numbers, with the exception of last season he had higher FG and 3 pt percentages in SAC and he was consistently a 20 point 5 assist guy.

I think it's fair for CLE to expect that they are getting a guy who can put up 20-5 shooting +/- 43% from the field and 35% from 3. There are worse starting PG's in the league. Question is can you get away with him and Love defensively.

[reborn123]

Isaiah said so himself, he still doesn't have his legs under him. This is such a kneejerk thread. The more underlying problem I see is JR Smith not getting it done on the defensive end. He's one of the worse perimeter defenders in the NBA. And Shumpert hasn't been productive at all in months now. There's really no upside to keeping JR, he's getting older; Cavs are better off starting and developing Osman, who (in smaller sample sizes) has better shooting percentages (including 3P% and FT%), plays with more energy and has a significantly wider frame, with an eye at playing him heavier minutes in the playoffs.

Offense isn't a problem, with guys like Love, Korver, Wade and IT alongside LeBron, they've got more than enough to score with the best. They need hustle, energy and defense, things guys like Thompson, Shumpert and Smith can't seem to provide anymore.

This is a great point. JR looks like he lost a few steps and Shumpert is always hurt. JR and Shump were a band-aid at the SG position and with Golden State getting Durant and Smith/Shump getting older and regressing, it just isn't good enough. Combine that with Tristan Thompson being terrible and it's just a mess.

I wounder if they added DeAndre Jordan and Kent Bazemore if that moves the needle enough?

Let's assume the BRK pick is involved in the trade discussions. Personally, I like the package of Jonathan Simmons, Biyombo and probably either of Fournier or Hezonja, depending on salaries. In Simmons, they get an energy wing player and Biyombo gives Cavs the center they lack. Fournier can give a good stream of shooting and his game is fit for LeBron, but for a high price tag. Hezonja has shown signs of life, but he's still unreliable, but he is cheap.

Kent Bazemore would be really awesome, but not enough for the Brooklyn pick if I were to judge, maybe the Hawks can add a few more pieces. I think DJ is a money pit. He can block shots, get rebounds and score in the interior for some lobs, but he can't do what Thompson does (or at least used to do) which is switch and defend on the perimeter, which is what the Cavs really need against Golden State.

[HoopsMalone]

He has played 5 games, people.

And tomorrow he will have played in SIX games. And the day after that SEVEN games.

It doesn't matter how many games he's played in. If he sucks he sucks.

No one is going to say "Oh Cleveland would have beat Boston in 6 games if Isaiah Thomas had played in more games in November"


This is a huge problem. Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder should have been a slight upgrade over Kyrie Irving. Instead they both look like hot garbage.

This isn't the Game of Thrones. Lebron can't just ask the God of Many Faces to kill Al Horford so he can lose in the Finals again and keep the streak intact.

[Hobo4President]

He seems to have lost a bunch of athleticism from the injury. Maybe it'll come back with time but he can barely jump and he's just so slow at the moment. You can't score when you're that short and that slow. If he isn't scoring he's useless because of how bad he is on defence.

[Edrees]

He'll return to a very good form but definitely not as good as Celtics Isiah. And it will take a full season of playing before he can get there, it isn't happening this year.

[R-DAWG]

Isaiah said so himself, he still doesn't have his legs under him. This is such a kneejerk thread. The more underlying problem I see is JR Smith not getting it done on the defensive end. He's one of the worse perimeter defenders in the NBA. And Shumpert hasn't been productive at all in months now. There's really no upside to keeping JR, he's getting older; Cavs are better off starting and developing Osman, who (in smaller sample sizes) has better shooting percentages (including 3P% and FT%), plays with more energy and has a significantly wider frame, with an eye at playing him heavier minutes in the playoffs.

Offense isn't a problem, with guys like Love, Korver, Wade and IT alongside LeBron, they've got more than enough to score with the best. They need hustle, energy and defense, things guys like Thompson, Shumpert and Smith can't seem to provide anymore.

This is a great point. JR looks like he lost a few steps and Shumpert is always hurt. JR and Shump were a band-aid at the SG position and with Golden State getting Durant and Smith/Shump getting older and regressing, it just isn't good enough. Combine that with Tristan Thompson being terrible and it's just a mess.

I wounder if they added DeAndre Jordan and Kent Bazemore if that moves the needle enough?

Let's assume the BRK pick is involved in the trade discussions. Personally, I like the package of Jonathan Simmons, Biyombo and probably either of Fournier or Hezonja, depending on salaries. In Simmons, they get an energy wing player and Biyombo gives Cavs the center they lack. Fournier can give a good stream of shooting and his game is fit for LeBron, but for a high price tag. Hezonja has shown signs of life, but he's still unreliable, but he is cheap.

Kent Bazemore would be really awesome, but not enough for the Brooklyn pick if I were to judge, maybe the Hawks can add a few more pieces. I think DJ is a money pit. He can block shots, get rebounds and score in the interior for some lobs, but he can't do what Thompson does (or at least used to do) which is switch and defend on the perimeter, which is what the Cavs really need against Golden State.

NO WAY you move the Brooklyn pick for that Orlando package. I'm not sure Simmons and Biyombo are really even upgrades over Smith and Thompson. If they are, I don't think they are big enough upgrades to warrent more than a second tier asset. Fournier is exactly what the Cavs don't need, another 1 demoniacal player.

CLE should be able to get Bazemore without giving up the Brooklyn pick, with that contract they might be able to get him in a pure salary dump.

Brooklyn pick should only be on the table if a star in his prime is available. Only player I can think of that might be available is Kemba that would be worth moving the pick.

[SF_Warriors]

I'm gonna give the guy more than 5 games under his belt. Coming into a new team, especially one where he is relinquishing the alpha dog role and there is another all star and vets on the team, is already difficult enough but he has to do it in the middle of the season,where most guys are in pretty decent basketball shape already, and he is also coming off a tough injury and long layoff. Not to mention the last few games he's played was against a few of the best teams in the nba. I mean, the guy is going to struggle a bit after the first few games he is in nowhere good enough shape no matter how much he rehabbed or practiced.

I think he will be okay. Definitely wont be as impactful as he was in boston, but I think he will still play at a relatively high level. Would have to give most guys at least 15 or so games before being able to make a fair assessment of their ability moving forward as by then they should be in basketball shape.

[HoopsMalone]

Isaiah said so himself, he still doesn't have his legs under him. This is such a kneejerk thread. The more underlying problem I see is JR Smith not getting it done on the defensive end. He's one of the worse perimeter defenders in the NBA. And Shumpert hasn't been productive at all in months now. There's really no upside to keeping JR, he's getting older; Cavs are better off starting and developing Osman, who (in smaller sample sizes) has better shooting percentages (including 3P% and FT%), plays with more energy and has a significantly wider frame, with an eye at playing him heavier minutes in the playoffs.

Offense isn't a problem, with guys like Love, Korver, Wade and IT alongside LeBron, they've got more than enough to score with the best. They need hustle, energy and defense, things guys like Thompson, Shumpert and Smith can't seem to provide anymore.

Isaiah Thomas
JR Smith
Kevin Love
Jeff Green
Dwyane Wade

If you have this many atrocious defenders in your top 9, plus Lebron is coasting on defense, wow

Putting Kevin Love in that group is just ridiculous. He's a solid defender being forced to play out of position at center. The other guys are turnstiles

[ronnymac2]

He just came back from a serious lower body/core injury, and he's my height, so it's not like he can compensate with an impressive standing reach. He's rusty. He'll be fine.

[jbk1234]

Isaiah said so himself, he still doesn't have his legs under him. This is such a kneejerk thread. The more underlying problem I see is JR Smith not getting it done on the defensive end. He's one of the worse perimeter defenders in the NBA. And Shumpert hasn't been productive at all in months now. There's really no upside to keeping JR, he's getting older; Cavs are better off starting and developing Osman, who (in smaller sample sizes) has better shooting percentages (including 3P% and FT%), plays with more energy and has a significantly wider frame, with an eye at playing him heavier minutes in the playoffs.

Offense isn't a problem, with guys like Love, Korver, Wade and IT alongside LeBron, they've got more than enough to score with the best. They need hustle, energy and defense, things guys like Thompson, Shumpert and Smith can't seem to provide anymore.

This is a great point. JR looks like he lost a few steps and Shumpert is always hurt. JR and Shump were a band-aid at the SG position and with Golden State getting Durant and Smith/Shump getting older and regressing, it just isn't good enough. Combine that with Tristan Thompson being terrible and it's just a mess.

I wounder if they added DeAndre Jordan and Kent Bazemore if that moves the needle enough?

Let's assume the BRK pick is involved in the trade discussions. Personally, I like the package of Jonathan Simmons, Biyombo and probably either of Fournier or Hezonja, depending on salaries. In Simmons, they get an energy wing player and Biyombo gives Cavs the center they lack. Fournier can give a good stream of shooting and his game is fit for LeBron, but for a high price tag. Hezonja has shown signs of life, but he's still unreliable, but he is cheap.

Kent Bazemore would be really awesome, but not enough for the Brooklyn pick if I were to judge, maybe the Hawks can add a few more pieces. I think DJ is a money pit. He can block shots, get rebounds and score in the interior for some lobs, but he can't do what Thompson does (or at least used to do) which is switch and defend on the perimeter, which is what the Cavs really need against Golden State.

This is madness. Take the Cavs out of it, who in the NBA is giving up a pick (I mean any pick) for Bazemore on his contract or Biz on his? No one.

[R-DAWG]

This is a great point. JR looks like he lost a few steps and Shumpert is always hurt. JR and Shump were a band-aid at the SG position and with Golden State getting Durant and Smith/Shump getting older and regressing, it just isn't good enough. Combine that with Tristan Thompson being terrible and it's just a mess.

I wounder if they added DeAndre Jordan and Kent Bazemore if that moves the needle enough?

Let's assume the BRK pick is involved in the trade discussions. Personally, I like the package of Jonathan Simmons, Biyombo and probably either of Fournier or Hezonja, depending on salaries. In Simmons, they get an energy wing player and Biyombo gives Cavs the center they lack. Fournier can give a good stream of shooting and his game is fit for LeBron, but for a high price tag. Hezonja has shown signs of life, but he's still unreliable, but he is cheap.

Kent Bazemore would be really awesome, but not enough for the Brooklyn pick if I were to judge, maybe the Hawks can add a few more pieces. I think DJ is a money pit. He can block shots, get rebounds and score in the interior for some lobs, but he can't do what Thompson does (or at least used to do) which is switch and defend on the perimeter, which is what the Cavs really need against Golden State.

This is madness. Take the Cavs out of it, who in the NBA is giving up a pick (I mean any pick) for Bazemore on his contract or Biz on his? No one.

Bazemore/Dedmon for Zizic/Smith/Frye

Does CLE do the trade?

[jbk1234]

Let's assume the BRK pick is involved in the trade discussions. Personally, I like the package of Jonathan Simmons, Biyombo and probably either of Fournier or Hezonja, depending on salaries. In Simmons, they get an energy wing player and Biyombo gives Cavs the center they lack. Fournier can give a good stream of shooting and his game is fit for LeBron, but for a high price tag. Hezonja has shown signs of life, but he's still unreliable, but he is cheap.

Kent Bazemore would be really awesome, but not enough for the Brooklyn pick if I were to judge, maybe the Hawks can add a few more pieces. I think DJ is a money pit. He can block shots, get rebounds and score in the interior for some lobs, but he can't do what Thompson does (or at least used to do) which is switch and defend on the perimeter, which is what the Cavs really need against Golden State.

This is madness. Take the Cavs out of it, who in the NBA is giving up a pick (I mean any pick) for Bazemore on his contract or Biz on his? No one.

Bazemore/Dedmon for Zizic/Smith/Frye

Does CLE do the trade?

If we had a taker for TT in another trade, possibly. But I'm not even sure Dedmon would get TT's minutes if he's still here. People like Dedmon because of his contract but he won't be playing for that money much longer.

[R-DAWG]

This is madness. Take the Cavs out of it, who in the NBA is giving up a pick (I mean any pick) for Bazemore on his contract or Biz on his? No one.

Bazemore/Dedmon for Zizic/Smith/Frye

Does CLE do the trade?

If we had a taker for TT in another trade, possibly. But I'm not even sure Dedmon would get TT's minutes if he's still here. People like Dedmon because of his contract but he won't be playing for that money much longer.

Then Zizic/Smith for Bazemore straight up. ATL gets off of the last year of Bazemore's deal. CLE gets a major upgrade this year.

Also, watching TT the few times I have watched CLE this year he looks terrible.