Blatant tanking from Sacramento

skones · Post #41 » by **skones** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:48 pm

I just don't think tanking is this massive problem many make it out to be. It's a right of passage. If you're bad, see what you have in the guys who aren't getting burn. The logic follows.

OakleyDokely · Post #42 » by **OakleyDokely** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:07 pm

They have the 3rd worst record in the NBA (only a game from the worst) and they have the worst net rating by far in the NBA.

Those vets don't seem to be helping anyway.

The_Hater · Post #43 » by **The_Hater** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:11 pm

I posted this almost word for word back in the off season and I had King's fans jumping all over me about it. Those expensive vets were going to show the young guys how to win apparently.

Att wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Developing their young players sounds good to me. Nothing wrong with that.

There is something wrong with signing all those veterans in the first place.
1. Cap space can be effectively used to get picks from other teams and by that, advancing your rebuild.
2. The veterans take the young player's minutes. Giving Hill minutes when Fox is on your bench is
The same goes for Temple, Randolph and Carter.
3. And now you have a weird situation where guys who played well sit entire games cause they are old. A lovely atmosphere in the locker room, it must create.

Att · Post #44 » by **Att** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:39 pm

ChiTownHero1992 wrote:
Att wrote:
ChiTownHero1992 wrote:They took a gamble trying to add talented vets to what they thought was a talented young core hoping to sneak into the playoffs. They realized it didn't pay off at all and is now hindering growth so I kind of understand the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to make some trades because a guy like Hill who is roughly 32 wont be happy sitting out games. And even though Zach Randolph is maybe 3 days older than baseball, he probably wants to be playing as well...

If they took a gamble trying to sneak into the playoffs with Temple, Carter, Randolph and Hill, than they are even less competent than I thought. Who in their right mind would think their roster can get to the playoff? Aren't they tired of making the same mistake over and over again? IIRC, they traded their 2019 unprotected pick (and two pick swaps) for one year of Rondo . They didn't sneak into the playoffs then either.

I'm not saying I thought they would get in but they certainly were thinking it:

Hill/Fox
Hield/Temple
Carter/Richardson/Bogdanovic
Randolph/Jackson/Labissiere/Giles
Cauley-Stein/Koufus/Papa-G

on paper they had the right idea (3-4 strong young talents, 2-3 good vets, 2-3 role players) it just wasn't the best constructed roster

You've got to be kidding me

Who's their best player? George Hill who is not even in the top15 of his position?
You have Portland with two stars (+Nurkic), NO with two top20 players and Denver with Jokic and 3-4 other players better than every player on the Kings roster, fighting for a playoff spot. What you wrote down is a really bad roster. They had no fighting chance.

ChiTownHero1992 · Post #45 » by **ChiTownHero1992** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:48 pm

Att wrote:
ChiTownHero1992 wrote:
Att wrote:If they took a gamble trying to sneak into the playoffs with Temple, Carter, Randolph and Hill, than they are even less competent than I thought. Who in their right mind would think their roster can get to the playoff? Aren't they tired of making the same mistake over and over again? IIRC, they traded their 2019 unprotected pick (and two pick swaps) for one year of Rondo . They didn't sneak into the playoffs then either.

I'm not saying I thought they would get in but they certainly were thinking it:

Hill/Fox
Hield/Temple
Carter/Richardson/Bogdanovic
Randolph/Jackson/Labissiere/Giles
Cauley-Stein/Koufus/Papa-G

on paper they had the right idea (3-4 strong young talents, 2-3 good vets, 2-3 role players) it just wasn't the best constructed roster

You've got to be kidding me Who's their best player? George Hill who is not even in the top15 of his position?
You have Portland with two stars (+Nurkic), NO with two top20 players and Denver with Jokic and 3-4 other players better than every player on the Kings roster, fighting for a playoff spot. What you wrote down is a really bad roster. They had no fighting chance.

Again never said that I thought it was a playoff team...I was simply stating what the Kings thought they were doing. I remember when they signed Carter and Randolph the next they were talking about how playoffs were a possibility. I never thought they would be...I like the future of their team in Hield, Fox, Jackson, Giles and Cauley-Stein but I don't think that even makes the playoffs 5 years from now.

I don't think they believed they needed a star, they wanted to be a balanced team which with the talents they got they were not balanced at all but thought they would be when adding those vets to the young core.

Yoshun · Post #46 » by **Yoshun** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:50 pm

Everything has become tanking around here. The Kings have no future with their current team, why not give guys like Fox, Willie, Hield and Jackson more run and see what happens?

HurricaneKid · Post #47 » by **HurricaneKid** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:53 pm

When you have a roster full of young cats you need to find out who can play and who needs to work on what. Running the Sr squad out there does none of that. They tried to compete and were one of the worst teams in the league. So now they focus on development.

Even if they didn't have a pick (like NEXT SEASON - BECAUSE VLADE DIN'T KNOW ABOUT THE STRETCH PROVISION) its still the right play.

Kurt Heimlich · Post #48 » by **Kurt Heimlich** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:57 pm

Why did the Kings sign Hill, VC and Randolph in the first place? Another case of laughable decision making from Vivik and that clown show of a front office.

Getting a top 4 pick is very important for the Kings. It feels like a can't miss top 5-6 this year. But I will still be holding my breath for Kings fans on draft night.

Att · Post #49 » by **Att** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:12 pm

ChiTownHero1992 wrote:
Att wrote:
ChiTownHero1992 wrote:
I'm not saying I thought they would get in but they certainly were thinking it:

Hill/Fox
Hield/Temple
Carter/Richardson/Bogdanovic
Randolph/Jackson/Labissiere/Giles
Cauley-Stein/Koufus/Papa-G

on paper they had the right idea (3-4 strong young talents, 2-3 good vets, 2-3 role players) it just wasn't the best constructed roster

You've got to be kidding me Who's their best player? George Hill who is not even in the top15 of his position?
You have Portland with two stars (+Nurkic), NO with two top20 players and Denver with Jokic and 3-4 other players better than every player on the Kings roster, fighting for a playoff spot. What you wrote down is a really bad roster. They had no fighting chance.

Again never said that I thought it was a playoff team...I was simply stating what the Kings thought they were doing. I remember when they signed Carter and Randolph the next they were talking about how playoffs were a possibility. I never thought they would be...I like the future of their team in Hield, Fox, Jackson, Giles and Cauley-Stein but I don't think that even makes the playoffs 5 years from now.

I don't think they believed they needed a star, they wanted to be a balanced team which with the talents they got they were not balanced at all but thought they would be when adding those vets to the young core.

If they thought they didn't need at least one star to get into the playoffs, they are idiots and incompetent. If they thought they could even compete for a place without a single player who is top15 in his position, they are idiots and incompetent.

Mylie10 · Post #50 » by **Mylie10** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

BetterCallSaul wrote:Yeah, you right. They'll pay for it because vets won't want to sign with them because the current ones won't be happy with what is going on here.

Their owner, who has been somewhat quiet, seems to be very impatient. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he looked to sell and get out.

They really need some better basketball minds there. And I mean in the front office. I like Vlade as a person, but just wouldn't have hired him as a GM.

jbent87 · Post #51 » by **jbent87** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:15 pm

Stuff like this just vindicates Hinkie even further IMO. Why in gods name would he sign the George Hills, ZBos, Vince Carters of the league just to end up here halfway through the season, in shamelessly shutting them down, with no valid excuse available? Why not preserve cap flexibility, which also allows you to be buyers of big contracts at the deadlines at the addition of incoming future draft picks? If the goal is wanting to finish at the top of the lottery/bottom of the standings to add top of the draft talent, why not do that by not signing these guys going into the season in the first place, which also gives yourself more playing time for the young guns ALL season, which also will translate in more losses as well as gaining crucial on the job training/player development (ie. TJ McConnell, Robert Covington) ?

Why become the Lakers by signing Mozgov and Deng just to shut them down and then have to attach a young piece (Russell) just to rid yourself of them a year later? Why was this guy villified for just being smarter than any other rebuilding team?

Mylie10 · Post #52 » by **Mylie10** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:16 pm

magee wrote:Not like it really matters. There is no chemistry with any line-up they put out there. The Cousins trade is looking worse and worse by the day and set the franchise back yet again. They are a mess. The only three players I'd keep on that roster are Bodgan Bogdanovic, Willey Cauley-Stein and DeAaron Fox.

Even if I agreed with keeping those 3 guys....all 3 of them are still heavily flawed. They are just swinging and missing from their multitude of draft picks going all the way back to Cousins. And Cousins was a solid draft pick.

Bosnian Diehard · Post #53 » by **Bosnian Diehard** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:20 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:I'm curious to hear a Kings fan perspective on this. I wouldn't be shocked if the majority of Kings fans want to see their young guys get more burn and develop them over watching VC, Randolph or Hill every night. If anything I think this is a really smart long term move by the organization. Lets play all these young guys and see if they begin to develop and get a better eye on who they think are legit building blocks or who might be moved later on. Smart rebuilding in my opinion.

This news is music to most Kings fan ears. Joerger has been inconsistent in terms of giving the young guys minutes. After 11 years without Playoffs, and obviously going into rebuild after the Boogie trade, would I rather see Randolph, Hill, etc. lead us into mediocrety and the 7-9 pick, or develop our young talent AND add a top 3-5 pick in a nice draft? Most Kings fans prefer the latter.

Not mention we have so many young players that it’s been tough to give all of them some time. This will open up more room to allow them to develop.

heatwillbeback · Post #54 » by **heatwillbeback** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:23 pm

Vince should request his release so he can go to a contender.

Bosnian Diehard · Post #55 » by **Bosnian Diehard** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:26 pm

Also let’s not forget that by trading Hill or Randolph, we could get a late 1st round pick next year, where we don’t have a 1st rounder at all.

Post #56 » by **FNQ** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:35 pm

I dont know that these vets are any better than the young players right now. Joeger giving the youth a chance to take a significant role by playing them in game is hardly tanking.. outside of Zach Randolph, the vets haven't really been living up to their paydays. And even Z-Bo hasnt been great, but he's been better than Hill/Temple/VC by some distance.

ChiTownHero1992 · Post #57 » by **ChiTownHero1992** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:47 pm

Bosnian Diehard wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I'm curious to hear a Kings fan perspective on this. I wouldn't be shocked if the majority of Kings fans want to see their young guys get more burn and develop them over watching VC, Randolph or Hill every night. If anything I think this is a really smart long term move by the organization. Lets play all these young guys and see if they begin to develop and get a better eye on who they think are legit building blocks or who might be moved later on. Smart rebuilding in my opinion.

This news is music to most Kings fan ears. Joerger has been inconsistent in terms of giving the young guys minutes. After 11 years without Playoffs, and obviously going into rebuild after the Boogie trade, would I rather see Randolph, Hill, etc. lead us into mediocrety and the 7-9 pick, or develop our young talent AND add a top 3-5 pick in a nice draft? Most Kings fans prefer the latter.

Not mention we have so many young players that it’s been tough to give all of them some time. This will open up more room to allow them to develop.

I like what the kings are cookin in terms of the future...wish the bulls took the get a 3-5 pick approach however I like the stars they have in place for the future as well.

Fox (20)/Mason (23)
Hield (24)/
Richardson (21)/Jackson (22)
Giles (19)/Labissiere (21)
Cauley-Stein (24)/Papagiannis (20)

That's a nice future, they are one-two big stars away from looking really good future wise.

Dino353 · Post #58 » by **Dino353** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:52 pm

What is the big deal? It's not like they brought Hill and Randolph over to get them into the playoffs or anything, it was just so they could serve as mentors for the young bloods. They should go all in for Marvin Bagley, my god he would be insane on that team. Slot him at the 5 with Giles at the 4 with Fox and Hield up top? That will be insane to watch, if they can draft Marvin Bagley the Kings rebuild might be over sooner then later.

blind prophet · Post #59 » by **blind prophet** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:54 pm

Cappy_Smurf wrote:We're only a few weeks from the trade deadline. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with holding guys out to avoid injury while you're shopping them, which is exactly what they should be doing with where that team is at.

Non-story.

Remember Rudy last year, this was a good point.

blind prophet · Post #60 » by **blind prophet** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:02 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:I'm curious to hear a Kings fan perspective on this. I wouldn't be shocked if the majority of Kings fans want to see their young guys get more burn and develop them over watching VC, Randolph or Hill every night. If anything I think this is a really smart long term move by the organization. Lets play all these young guys and see if they begin to develop and get a better eye on who they think are legit building blocks or who might be moved later on. Smart rebuilding in my opinion.

Well this is the "perspective" from management, which some of us may agree with or partially agree with or not.

When Cousins was moved we had no identity.

With our frequent turmoil, there has been zero stability in a long time. Vivek decided to try and create some stability, is why Divac and Joerger were extended before the season started.

So everyone coming to town knew who the GM & coach were going to be long term.

Joerger said he needed some vets to create a foundation in which the young fellas could learn how to do things the right way. So they overpaid someone Joerger knew well in Randolph, help toughen up the bigs perhaps. You overpay Carter who loves the game and he role models professionalism well. You overpay Hill to help teach Mason & Fox, but besides his 3 point percentages and defense has been a bad fit on the court.

As you can see it didn't translate to many wins.

But the problem is to move any of these guys now would require taking bad salary in return, and at best a meager asset return.

They say they have a 3 year plan roughly.

Now the keys are in the younger guys hands.

I will say the team looks close as far as getting along, we hear about the guys working hard trying to develop.