Nikola Jokić and best Bigmen passers of all time

[Mylie10]

Jokic > Sabonis easily

Why do you say easily?

Were you in Lithuania to watch a young Sabonis play? I'm gonna answer for you and say, no you didn't. Neither did I, put I'm in my 50's and I'd bet you arent old enough to have even seen Sabonis play for the Blazers when his body had already betrayed him.

[kololoco]

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Yeah, not too early. He is number one. Flash, simplicity, on the go, from a static position, from dribble, from high or low post. He's got it all. Sabonis is number 2, which is not a knock on him. Just a smaller aray of passes. Young Sabonis is the hands down overall better player since passing is the only skill Jokic is marginally better, but he is better in that one skill.

[Mylie10]

Arvydas Sabonis is the best passing big of all time but I'd put Jokić at #2. He's right up there, too.

Sabonis had 964 total career assists in 7 seasons

Jokic has 782 in 2 1/2 seasons.

Jokic > Sabonis and its not even close

Do you not realize that SAbonis played most of his career in Europe, and only came to the league at the end of his total career....way after he was out of his prime?

Chill Alex!

[Mylie10]

Where's the option for Meadow Lark Lemon?

[mixerball]

sabonis and divac were great at it. they were two savy passing vetereans. jokic is better passer right now and he has all the time in the world to get even better.

[Pacersike]

I can not say anything.

I'm still stunned that he won't be in the ASG

[antonac]

Arvydas Sabonis is the best passing big of all time but I'd put Jokić at #2. He's right up there, too.

Sabonis had 964 total career assists in 7 seasons

Jokic has 782 in 2 1/2 seasons.

Jokic > Sabonis and its not even close

Do you not realize that SAbonis played most of his career in Europe, and only came to the league at the end of his total career....way after he was out of his prime?

Chill Alex!

I think Sabonis is ahead right now but Jokic hasn't played in his prime either. comparing a guy over 31 to a guy under 23 doesn't seem too unfair.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I love Jokic and he is definitely one of the all time great big men when it comes to passing.

However, anyone that says its Jokic over Sabonis "and its not even close", I simply cannot take seriously. You clearly didn't watch Sabonis if that is your hot take.

I think Sabonis is better myself, but I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for taking Jokic, however, insinuating its not even close shows how blind you are to how good Sabonis was as well.

[nomansland]

I can not say anything.

I'm still stunned that he won't be in the ASG

He didn't deserve it.

Maybe if 1 or 2 other guys gets hurt or fakes an injury to pass on the game, he could be next in line. But his play so far this year has been below expectations. He needs to improve his shooting from 3, his conditioning is still sub-par, and he needs to stop whining after every single call that doesn't go his way.

[Domejandro]

Jokic > Sabonis easily

I absolutely love Arvydas Sabonis, but what Nikola does with his passing ability is.... well just better/(more important for his team), in my opinion. I am guessing a lot of people are operating off of nostalgia, or just off of reputation, but Jokic is truly special with his ability. He passes like Ricky Rubio at seven feet tall.

[whysoserious]

I think you underselling Jokic a bit. Jokic creates passes that aren't there all the time I think. Like every time I watch Nuggets game or highlights, he pulls off something ridiculous.

I also never like this ''well, he might be in the conversation at the end of his career'' argument, when we aren't talking longevity
based topics. I mean Jokic is great already, if he doesn't improve his passing at all, but just does the same thing for another 10 years. he somehow becomes better passer now? He doesn't in this scenario, but at the same time he does to subjective minds. I understand that longevity is important if you want to be remembered and stand the test of time, but if you are good at something, you are good. We are seeing something special with this guy, I really feel that way.

I don't think I'm underselling him, he can make some great passes and he has a high BBIQ. I was pointing that the video posted was basically a lot of handoffs or obvious passes that were there. There were some good finds in there too that most wouldn't make.

I personally haven't seen enough of him to say that he's ahead of Sabonis because Sabonis was on another level compared to most big men. Can Jokic get there? Sure but i don't believe, IMO, that he's there yet.

[ItsThatEasy]

Something like pure passing talent isn't longevity based. Just like Kyrie is already the best ball handler of all time to me. Doesn't mean he's one of the best PG ever but his handling ability is already solidified. The same with Jokic, pure talent wise he's already #1 or #2.

[Pan Jia Yuan]

guy has seen about 5,000 minutes on an nba court, that's three and a half days. if i fly to orlando tomorrow and stay in the amway center til sunday night i have about the same nba experience as him. point being, it's too early, he's a no name player on a mediocre team, he can't be the best at anything yet.

[THE J0KER]

I'm from Europe, and I'm enough old to remember how peak-Sabonis played before NBA during his USSR-Lithuania (+Spain) days. Believe or not, but he does not use too much his passing skills when he is in his prime like he does it during his veteran years in NBA. He is so dominant, and in Europe, he has no real competition (and other elite Euro centers like Divac, Smits, Schrempf, Radja... join NBA), so he tends to close with a shot almost every possession he gets. When he becomes older, slower and damaged by injuries, and when face elite competition in NBA, he is forced much more to use his BBIQ and passing skills.

As I noted already, the only other NBA center which is similar to Jokic in his young days was Bill Walton, but unfortunately, he is unable to fulfill his potential due big injury problems.

And if you want help better to imagine what kind of player is Sabonis on his prime, here are all his matches for Lithuania National Team in Barcelona Olympics 1992 when he is 28 old:


On average he is 25-13-2 type of player, where passes/assists are the obviously secondary thing in his game at the time.

[leolozon]

Jokic is easily the best passing big man of all time. I'm probably one of the few posters here that started watching the NBA in the late 70's. His passing ability is just that good. And yes, he should be an All Star this year.

So, Jokic is averaging the same 5.3APG as Horford this season, Horford has more total assists this season, and Horford is an all star but Jokic is not, but Jokic is not only the best passing big man this year, but of all time.

You call people crazy, yet you think that APG in one season is the only thing we should look at.

We could look at the way Jokic gets his assists compared with Horford, but even without watching 1 game we can deduce things.

1- Horford has his best season ever when it comes to APG : 5.3APG vs 3.1 for his career (Jokic 5.3 vs 4.0). Considering that last year was his second best season, we can deduce that playing in Brad Stevens' system is helping him a lot.

2- Horford is playing slightly more minutes, so per 36 is advantaging Jokic (6.1 Vs 5.8)

3- Boston is playing a faster tempo, so per 100 possessions is advantaging Jokic (8.4 vs 8.1)

4- Horford is playing with better players, so his good passes probably have a better chance to be converted.

But just looking at the game, you realize that Jokic's APG would be way up there if they played him as a "point center". He just has a higher potential than Horford even if Horford is really good.

[UcanUwill]

I'm from Europe, and I'm enough old to remember how peak-Sabonis played before NBA during his USSR-Lithuania (+Spain) days. Believe or not, but he does not use too much his passing skills when he is in his prime like he does it during his veteran years in NBA. He is so dominant, and in Europe, he has no real competition (and other elite Euro centers like Divac, Smits, Schrempf, Radja... join NBA), so he tends to close with a shot almost every possession he gets. When he becomes older, slower and damaged by injuries, and when face elite competition in NBA, he is forced much more to use his BBIQ and passing skills.

As I noted already, the only other NBA center which is similar to Jokic in his young days was Bill Walton, but unfortunately, he is unable to fulfill his potential due big injury problems.

And if you want help better to imagine what kind of player is Sabonis on his prime, here are all his matches for Lithuania National Team in Barcelona Olympics 1992 when he is 28 old:


On average he is 25-13-2 type of player, where passes/assists are the obviously secondary thing in his game at the time.

Look at those shotblocking and steal numbers tho (2,4 blocks 2,6 steals 34 MPG). Guy was a machine, if only he joined Portland when he was drafted...

[og15]

Jokic's up there, man. A lot of people don't like to give credit to current players until their career is over, but he just has an innate ability to know where people are without looking. That's tough to do as a big man. And every other game I see him doing a crafty little tip pass to a teammate for an open shot.. no other big man or even point guard really does that as often as him.

Between him and Sabonis for me.

Is it necessarily tough to do as a big man? Compared to guards, big men have the advantage of being able to see and pass over the defense. The reason most good passing guards are able to be more volume assist men is that they usually have the ball more, but also are likely much better ball handlers, especially in right spaces and can get to more spots where they can make an assisting pass. In terms of seeing a step ahead and knowing where people will be, being a big or small doesn't make it harder or easier.

His passing is very impressive though, fun to watch.

[Green89]

Jokic is easily the best passing big man of all time. I'm probably one of the few posters here that started watching the NBA in the late 70's. His passing ability is just that good. And yes, he should be an All Star this year.

So, Jokic is averaging the same 5.3APG as Horford this season, Horford has more total assists this season, and Horford is an all star but Jokic is not, but Jokic is not only the best passing big man this year, but of all time.

You call people crazy, yet you think that APG in one season is the only thing we should look at.

We could look at the way Jokic gets his assists compared with Horford, but even without watching 1 game we can deduce things.

1- Horford has his best season ever when it comes to APG : 5.3APG vs 3.1 for his career (Jokic 5.3 vs 4.0). Considering that last year was his second best season, we can deduce that playing in Brad Stevens' system is helping him a lot.

2- Horford is playing slightly more minutes, so per 36 is advantaging Jokic (6.1 Vs 5.8)

3- Boston is playing a faster tempo, so per 100 possessions is advantaging Jokic (8.4 vs 8.1)

4- Horford is playing with better players, so his good passes probably have a better chance to be converted.

But just looking at the game, you realize that Jokic's APG would be way up there if they played him as a "point center". He just has a higher potential than Horford even if Horford is really good.

Good points. My take is you can’t take flashy passes and necessarily say it makes someone a better passer, no more than you can take a player who makes spectacular dunks, and compare him to a player who doesn’t dunk yet averages the same PPG. Is one a better scorer just because he makes highlights real dunks? Is one shooter a better scorer than another because he has a prettier jumpshot? Most people here are making a case because of Globetrotter like passing skills, but I bet there’s three guys on the current Globetrotters who are better passers than Jokic.

[THE J0KER]

Look at those shotblocking and steal numbers tho (2,4 blocks 2,6 steals 34 MPG). Guy was a machine, if only he joined Portland when he was drafted...

I can agree with that, he is better in everything during these prime days than during his veteran NBA days - except in assists/passing. Which is some kind of irony if we know what is subject of this thread.

[Fantastik_Goat]

Toni Kukoc