The Myth about the Raptors in the Playoffs

[High 5]

The Raptors have disappointed in 4 straight postseasons. It's not a myth. Two seasons ago wasn't really a disappointment in terms of being 2 wins away from the Finals, but those first two series were a struggle to say the least and then they had a crazy negative point differential in the ECF. People would probably look back on it more favorably if they followed it up with a better performance last season.

Just enjoy this season instead of trying to change the past. It won't matter anymore if the Raptors are as legit as they appear to be.

[itsme23]

ESPN has really worped some of your brains.

[Tacoma]

Kyle Lowry has a career PER of 15 in the playoffs with a BPM of 2.3.
Demar Derozan has a career PER of 15.7 and a BPM of -2.1.

There’s a reason why this “myth” exists. When your stars play like average players in the playoffs, it’s hard to win, especially when facing players like Lebron, Kyrie, John Wall, etc. who play like superstars in the playoffs.

If the Raptors face the Cavs in the playoffs, I’ll be rooting for them, but I won’t be confident in them. You can even look at playoff series the Raptors won in the last 2 years where Lowry/Derozan were outplayed by other players, like Giannis, Paul George, Dwayne Wade, and Hassan Whiteside.

The fact that with all this we still have the third most playoff wins is something. We going places if they play consistently.

Raptors fans keep bringing up most playoff wins, but that's only half the story. Yes, they've had the 3rd most playoff wins in the Lowry/DeRozan era with 17 wins. But in that same period they've also had 24 losses, so they're well below .500 in the playoffs. Even if you subtract the games against CLE, they're still sub .500 at 15W-16L.

Compare these sub .500 records against their regular season record and inferior playoff stats by Lowry and DeRozan, and it's pretty clear they're playing worse in playoffs than regular season. Only the most extreme Raptors fanboys could deny this.

[Edrees]

Kyle Lowry has a career PER of 15 in the playoffs with a BPM of 2.3.
Demar Derozan has a career PER of 15.7 and a BPM of -2.1.

There’s a reason why this “myth” exists. When your stars play like average players in the playoffs, it’s hard to win, especially when facing players like Lebron, Kyrie, John Wall, etc. who play like superstars in the playoffs.

If the Raptors face the Cavs in the playoffs, I’ll be rooting for them, but I won’t be confident in them. You can even look at playoff series the Raptors won in the last 2 years where Lowry/Derozan were outplayed by other players, like Giannis, Paul George, Dwayne Wade, and Hassan Whiteside.

The fact that with all this we still have the third most playoff wins is something. We going places if they play consistently.

Raptors fans keep bringing up most playoff wins, but that's only half the story. Yes, they've had the 3rd most playoff wins in the Lowry/DeRozan era with 17 wins. But in that same period they've also had 24 losses, so they're well below .500 in the playoffs. Even if you subtract the games against CLE, they're still sub .500 at 15W-16L.

Compare these sub .500 records against their regular season record and inferior playoff stats by Lowry and DeRozan, and it's pretty clear they're playing worse in playoffs than regular season. Only the most extreme Raptors fanboys could deny this.

they are doing worse in the playoffs than regular season, but every team besides Cleveland in the east and GS in the west is doing worse or almost as worse in the playoffs than the regular season than the raptors. That's the point being made.

Boston and Washington both have much worse playoff winning percentage records last four years than regular season, if you only count the years they made the playoffs. For example, boston last two years

2016: regular season; 0.585, playoffs 2-4 (0.250) (.335 dropoff)
2017: regular season: 0.646, playoffs: 9-9 (0.500) (.146 dropoff)

raptors last 2 years
2016: regular season 0.683, playoffs: 10-10 (0.500) (.183 dropoff)
2017: regular season 0.622, playoffs: 4-6 (.400) (.222 dropoff)

Let's look at the rockets last two years
2016: regular season: .500, playoffs 1-4 (0.250) (.250 dropoff)
2017: regular season: 0.671, playoffs 6-5 (0.545) (.126 dropoff)

I don't feel like compiling 4 years worth of data but look at it yourself, the patterns are similar for any team that isn't cleveland or golden state.

Seems to me if you look at almost any team in the east and some teams in the west, you get similar pattern. I don't see how the raptors are any worse.

Doing worse in the playoffs than regular season is a natural outcome of not winning the championship. You'd have to apply the choker label to any teams that haven't won titles.

[bb22]

Compare these sub .500 records against their regular season record and inferior playoff stats by Lowry and DeRozan, and it's pretty clear they're playing worse in playoffs than regular season. Only the most extreme Raptors fanboys could deny this.

That is absolutely true, but I think we are putting way too much emphasis on their previous post-seasons. Circumstance/luck play a big part in post-season success as well. Even the 2014-15 Warriors had a lot of luck on their side given major injuries to all of their opponents. Judging how well they have played this season, and how mediocre the other "contenders" in the East have looked (due to injuries), the raptors have the best shot at getting to the finals.

I, personally, don't want to see them in the finals, but their consistency and injury-free season has them in a good position to make a run.

Also, most of us assume Lebron and the Cavs will flip the switch and go beast-mode in the playoffs, or that the Celtics will re-group and go on a tear lead by their brilliant coach and new superstar. But are these scenarios really any more probable than the raptors just continuing their level of play from this regular season?

[SAKURABA216]

It's nothing personal against the Raptors. As a Cavs-hater I will root for any team to take them out in the ECF. Its just that no team in the East has shown any ability to put up a fight against the Cavs in a 7 game series. Your team may get hot late in the year and go into the matchup with some momentum, but Lebron will just take your soul. He did it to the Hawks, Celtics, Pacers, and whoever else in the East that thinks they stand a chance.

The Raptors this year look good right now, but we've seen this before and we know how it will play out. The game slows down and Lowry, DeRozan, and the rest of their guys just aren't elite enough to go back and forth with Lebron in a war of attrition.

[ken6199]

Same goes to Houston, or any other high flying contending teams. We can have 20 threads, 200 pages talking about it, and still won't draw a conclusion or change people's mind, but that's okay. First, I am not interested in changing people's mind; second, I am not even fully convinced myself either.

As said in another thread: "I only believe it when I see it". You get the job done, you become THAT team, then people will find another team to label as "just regular season, they will choke in playoffs". It's easy, it's lazy, whatever. That's just a forever cycle.

[FNQ]

As said in another thread: "I only believe it when I see it". You get the job done, you become THAT team, then people will find another team to label as "just regular season, they will choke in playoffs". It's easy, it's lazy, whatever. That's just a forever cycle.

Exactly.. and even if your team does win a ring, the stigma can still remain in other fans' eyes. Steph Curry is still a choker to some.

But I will never understand why fans will go to the mattresses about something like this.. I dont think they are chokers, they have ran into some tough teams and havent made it to the finals - yet. And if/when someone lazily throws out the chokers label, hit em with the Dr Cox gif:

[Patsfan1081]

Kyle Lowry has a career PER of 15 in the playoffs with a BPM of 2.3.
Demar Derozan has a career PER of 15.7 and a BPM of -2.1.

There’s a reason why this “myth” exists. When your stars play like average players in the playoffs, it’s hard to win, especially when facing players like Lebron, Kyrie, John Wall, etc. who play like superstars in the playoffs.

If the Raptors face the Cavs in the playoffs, I’ll be rooting for them, but I won’t be confident in them. You can even look at playoff series the Raptors won in the last 2 years where Lowry/Derozan were outplayed by other players, like Giannis, Paul George, Dwayne Wade, and Hassan Whiteside.

The fact that with all this we still have the third most playoff wins is something. We going places if they play consistently.

There's a direct correlation with Lowry/DD being a pair of all stars that have played together the longest in the east. AMost GM's would have looked at that team and thought there was no way they're getting past the team's in the west(or past the Cavs), especially after four years of home court advantage in the playoffs, and would have torn the team down. In fact that's the very thing Boston did despite finishing first in the east last season.

[Patsfan1081]

Compare these sub .500 records against their regular season record and inferior playoff stats by Lowry and DeRozan, and it's pretty clear they're playing worse in playoffs than regular season. Only the most extreme Raptors fanboys could deny this.

That is absolutely true, but I think we are putting way too much emphasis on their previous post-seasons. Circumstance/luck play a big part in post-season success as well. Even the 2014-15 Warriors had a lot of luck on their side given major injuries to all of their opponents. Judging how well they have played this season, and how mediocre the other "contenders" in the East have looked (due to injuries), the raptors have the best shot at getting to the finals.

I, personally, don't want to see them in the finals, but their consistency and injury-free season has them in a good position to make a run.

Also, most of us assume Lebron and the Cavs will flip the switch and go beast-mode in the playoffs, or that the Celtics will re-group and go on a tear lead by their brilliant coach and new superstar. But are these scenarios really any more probable than the raptors just continuing their level of play from this regular season?

More prob? Maybe not, but it's a new question to ask and that's why people aren't tired of it. Maybe choking isn't the best word to use, but Toronto has gone into the playoffs for now five strait years with homecourt advantage, including four division titles behind the same two all stars(who have been inefficient in the playoffs). Can you blame anyone who asks what's the difference between this and previous years? A lot of Raptor fans will point to their bench, their young players like Poeltl, Sakiam, VanFleet, etc.... However then certain other teams wining behind their young players are overachievers.

[Danny1616]

It's nothing personal against the Raptors. As a Cavs-hater I will root for any team to take them out in the ECF. Its just that no team in the East has shown any ability to put up a fight against the Cavs in a 7 game series. Your team may get hot late in the year and go into the matchup with some momentum, but Lebron will just take your soul. He did it to the Hawks, Celtics, Pacers, and whoever else in the East that thinks they stand a chance.

The Raptors this year look good right now, but we've seen this before and we know how it will play out. The game slows down and Lowry, DeRozan, and the rest of their guys just aren't elite enough to go back and forth with Lebron in a war of attrition.

Lebron is undoubtedly great...but I wouldn't be worried going against Lebron in a war of attrition.

Lebron was bailed out many times on the playoffs by Irving closing out games making ridiculous shots.

Not taking anything away from Lebron but he isn't someone that scares me dominating the ball at the end of games.

[Jagic Mohnson]

Lowry and Derozan are the new Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. Both duos are all stars in the reg season and then like clockwork choke in the playoffs. Like that saying, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me or something like that.

[zimpy27]

The Myth is generated by the super hype Toronto fans give their team every year, only to be found to underperform in the playoffs. It sticks in peoples minds because it's funny. I think Raptors are easily the best they have been but still have plenty of players that could crumble.

[jonjames]

It's nothing personal against the Raptors. As a Cavs-hater I will root for any team to take them out in the ECF. Its just that no team in the East has shown any ability to put up a fight against the Cavs in a 7 game series. Your team may get hot late in the year and go into the matchup with some momentum, but Lebron will just take your soul. He did it to the Hawks, Celtics, Pacers, and whoever else in the East that thinks they stand a chance.

The Raptors this year look good right now, but we've seen this before and we know how it will play out. The game slows down and Lowry, DeRozan, and the rest of their guys just aren't elite enough to go back and forth with Lebron in a war of attrition.

Nah you're just wrong. Garbage Cavs with their -0.19 SRS and 28th ranked defense and no Kyrie Irving ain't scaring no one. Unlike you I don't look at the past to determine how teams will play out in the future. I only look at the present. And presently the 2018 Raptors are by far the best overall team in the East and way better than any iteration of the Raptors in the past. Let me guess you thought the 2003 Lakers were going to 4 peat right? Despite all the warning signs in the regular season and how bad they looked you dismissed it simply because of their past winning 3 titles in a row?

[KrazyP]

Kyle Lowry has a career PER of 15 in the playoffs with a BPM of 2.3.
Demar Derozan has a career PER of 15.7 and a BPM of -2.1.

There’s a reason why this “myth” exists. When your stars play like average players in the playoffs, it’s hard to win, especially when facing players like Lebron, Kyrie, John Wall, etc. who play like superstars in the playoffs.

If the Raptors face the Cavs in the playoffs, I’ll be rooting for them, but I won’t be confident in them. You can even look at playoff series the Raptors won in the last 2 years where Lowry/Derozan were outplayed by other players, like Giannis, Paul George, Dwayne Wade, and Hassan Whiteside.

The fact that with all this we still have the third most playoff wins is something. We going places if they play consistently.

Raptors fans keep bringing up most playoff wins, but that's only half the story. Yes, they've had the 3rd most playoff wins in the Lowry/DeRozan era with 17 wins. But in that same period they've also had 24 losses, so they're well below .500 in the playoffs. Even if you subtract the games against CLE, they're still sub .500 at 15W-16L.

Compare these sub .500 records against their regular season record and inferior playoff stats by Lowry and DeRozan, and it's pretty clear they're playing worse in playoffs than regular season. Only the most extreme Raptors fanboys could deny this.

This is stupid logic. Pretty much every team's record in the post season goes down in the playoffs vs the regular season. The only non Lebron team in the East that has a respectable record over the last 4 yrs is the Wizards but that should come with an asterisk as they embarrasingly didnt even make the playoffs a couple years ago.

Cavs- 43-16 (Lebron)
Celtics - 11-17
Wizards - 19-15
Hawks - 17-22
Nets - 7-11
Bucks - 4-8
Bulls - 9-13
Pacers - 13-17
Heat - 20-14 * (Lebron)
Hornets - 3-8
Knicks - 0-0
Pistons - 0-4
Magic - 0-0
Sixers - 0 0

[reborn123]

The fact that with all this we still have the third most playoff wins is something. We going places if they play consistently.

Raptors fans keep bringing up most playoff wins, but that's only half the story. Yes, they've had the 3rd most playoff wins in the Lowry/DeRozan era with 17 wins. But in that same period they've also had 24 losses, so they're well below .500 in the playoffs. Even if you subtract the games against CLE, they're still sub .500 at 15W-16L.

Compare these sub .500 records against their regular season record and inferior playoff stats by Lowry and DeRozan, and it's pretty clear they're playing worse in playoffs than regular season. Only the most extreme Raptors fanboys could deny this.

This is stupid logic. Pretty much every team's record in the post season goes down in the playoffs vs the regular season. The only non Lebron team in the East that has a respectable record over the last 4 yrs is the Wizards but that should come with an asterisk as they embarrasingly didnt even make the playoffs a couple years ago.

Cavs- 43-16 (Lebron)
Celtics - 11-17
Wizards - 19-15
Hawks - 17-22
Nets - 7-11
Bucks - 4-8
Bulls - 9-13
Pacers - 13-17
Heat - 20-14 * (Lebron)
Hornets - 3-8
Knicks - 0-0
Pistons - 0-4
Magic - 0-0
Sixers - 0 0

Why should the Wizards get an asterisk?

[refshateRaps]

This playoffs will cement the legacy of Demar and Kyle. Well see as the last 2 playoffs Lowry had been playing thru pretty bad injuries and now looks healthy. Cleveland does not their best lineup so their is a slim chance they can reverse the stigma

[reborn123]

He just said they have the 3rd most wins jn the post season in the past few years.. but you are unconvinced they are ready for prime time?

What would make them ready for prime time then.

Are you confident of your team’s chances against the Warriors?

Not really but the raptors have been pretty successful compared to other teams in the playoffs in the past few years.

Warriors are on another level until proven otherwise

I’ll be specific with what Toronto needs. They need JV to blossom into the bonafide 3rd star. He’s shooting a ridiculous 45% from 3, but only barely taking one per game. He has the highest PER on the team. His brutish and physical game has evolved to add more finesse and that’s something I really feel Golden State would have trouble with. And Pascal Siakam, that dude has to figure out how to become the rich man’s Draymond Green. Dude has got the whole package, except for a jumpshot, but that’s the easiest skill to learn in basketball.

[dawn_wan]

Real raptors fans will always have that feeling in the back of their heads. We've seen some ****.

[KrazyP]

Raptors fans keep bringing up most playoff wins, but that's only half the story. Yes, they've had the 3rd most playoff wins in the Lowry/DeRozan era with 17 wins. But in that same period they've also had 24 losses, so they're well below .500 in the playoffs. Even if you subtract the games against CLE, they're still sub .500 at 15W-16L.

Compare these sub .500 records against their regular season record and inferior playoff stats by Lowry and DeRozan, and it's pretty clear they're playing worse in playoffs than regular season. Only the most extreme Raptors fanboys could deny this.

This is stupid logic. Pretty much every team's record in the post season goes down in the playoffs vs the regular season. The only non Lebron team in the East that has a respectable record over the last 4 yrs is the Wizards but that should come with an asterisk as they embarrasingly didnt even make the playoffs a couple years ago.

Cavs- 43-16 (Lebron)
Celtics - 11-17
Wizards - 19-15
Hawks - 17-22
Nets - 7-11
Bucks - 4-8
Bulls - 9-13
Pacers - 13-17
Heat - 20-14 * (Lebron)
Hornets - 3-8
Knicks - 0-0
Pistons - 0-4
Magic - 0-0
Sixers - 0 0

Why should the Wizards get an asterisk?

Not making the playoffs is worse than getting beat down in the first round.