Is Lebron's supporting cast better than it was in Cleveland?

[a8bil]

I would have thought that the Cavs experience with Love would show the NBA that he is not the star player that his TWolves years suggested he was. He is a good 3 pt shooter, cannot create a shot for himself, and cannot defend. He's a solid rebounder. He has high BBIQ. Overall, he's a very flawed player who creates mismatches for the other team more than he does for his own. Already, Ingram has a better balanced game than Love, and Ingram still has upside to tap. Lakers have better talent than Cavs, hands down.

[John Murdoch]

I wouldnt trade Kuzma for KLove i can tell you that . Bookmarked this one for allstar break

[TheGOATWill]

Kevin Love was a really good player. 28 teams saw what GSW did and will be targeting him in the P/R every second he is on the floor. Lakers supporting cast by a mile. Although, I do have a really good feeling about Collin Sexton. He looks like a somebody.

[Edrees]

cavs ranked last in defense last year, (or close to it) lakers ranked 13th. So Lakers. What Kevin love contributes on offense is washed up in what he gives up on defense. You're only thinking on one side of the ball. Cavs were probably a little better on offense last year, but Lakers are leagues ahead in defense, so overall his supporting cast is better taking into account offense + defense and not just offense like every other posts seems to only consider.

[Benedict_Boozer]

It will be interesting. I think the Lakers have better coaching, with Lue he refused to develop and play younger guys so it's really hard to handicap how guys that showed promise develop and stack up (like Cedi, Zizic, etc.). You look at a guy like Clarkson, he looked completely lost with Lue but was a productive bench scorer with Walton.

Because of that, assuming Lebron buys into Walton's game plan, the Lakers should be better even if their personnel on paper isn't that much better.

[LKN]

The answer is TBD.... either way we'll get tons of trolling from all sides:

"See Lebron can't win in the West!"

"See Lebron only goes to teams with stacked young talent"

"Lebron never had enough help his team-mates are trash!"

"No one in the world could have dragged this trash Laker team to over 40 wins and LBJ got 50!"

etc. etc. etc.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

Ingram shot two threes per game at 39% — a great percentage. Kuzma was actually shooting closer to 37%(not to split hairs), and Lebron himself shot 37% on 5 attempts during the regular season also. Rondo over his last 3 seasons is shooting 36% on 3’s(only 2 attempts per game, but still a respectable percentage), and Ball actually had a nice stretch(24 games) where he shot 40% from 3 on 6 attempts..

For a Knicks fan you sound an awful lot like the Lakers' attorney twisting up and jamming things into an argument that makes this look rosy. Lebron is used to having supporting guys that can catch and shoot pretty quickly and at a solid percentage, none of these three is close to qualifying for that as is.

Ingram has a sort of slow set shot, and shooting only 1.8 threes per game is extremely low for someone playing 34 minutes per game. To give some context, Bobby Brown took more attempts playing 5.8 minutes per game last year, and total non-shooters like Justise Winslow and and Sefolosha took more 3s per game as well--while playing a fraction of the minutes Ingram did. That doesn't necessarily mean he won't be useful as a shooter but it's a long long way from him being able to plug right in and start canning 3 triples a game against closeouts, like most of the Cavs rotation could last year.

Your info on Ball seems totally wrong: looking at his splits, he had one month where he had a respectable 3pt% (10 games in Dec at 38%) and the other months he was well below that (28%, 24%, 32%, 31% post-injury). Given that fact, I don't see how he could've played 24 consecutive games in which he shot 40% (unless you're mostly counting games he didn't play in? In which case please go home). Regardless, it obviously doesn't make sense to judge someone on the basis of their hot streak and not the much larger sample around it.

Rondo only take shots if he's in the corner with absolutely no one around him. It's a nice little thing he's developed but it's not going to help much to replicate what Lebron's teams always do.

Let’s keep the discussion about what it actually is, and not about who’s a fan which team.

Secondly, regardless of what Lebron is used to playing with, this team clearly has a ton of diverse talent. Making the point that this team would be dysfunctional because it’s different than what he’s used to playing with is more than a little bit reductionist/simplistic especially considering that 1.) Like I mentionednin my previous post, there are talented and capable shooters on this team, and 2.) Those shooters are going to get better looks as a result of Lebron being there. 3.) Again, regardless of what he’s used to, it makes more sense to have the more talented team than to simply surround him with shooters.

Guys like Clarkson, Jeff Green, Cedi Osman we’re getting open looks playing with Lebron, and Ingram looks to be a more consistent spot up shooter than all three of them. Also, I’m judging Ball on both — the good and the bad, but the fact is that once he got his rhythm he had a more than respectable stretch of shooting the basketball. From 11/22 to 3/7 he was a 40% 3 point shooter, including a game where he went 6/10. I wouldn’t call that a hot streak, it was 24/52 games. I think he’s going to balance out at somewhere around 35% next year.

What’s more, is that in my eyes, the intangibles that these guys offer in lieu of shooting may nearly offset the fact that they lack that shot.

[Bobbymcgee]

Lakers have some holes to fill in their roster, but I think it looks pretty good overall.

SG: KCP / Hart
PG: Rondo / Lonzo
C: Starter ? / McGee
SF: Ingram / Deng
PF: Lebron / Kuzma

I'm sure the above players will be used in various combinations and minutes played depending on what works best.

And of course this could all get thrown out the window if they decide to get Leonard this season via a trade.

But, should be a fun season.

[gpoon]

Lebron played 4 v 6, JR was playing for GSW. at least with the lakers it will be an even 5 v 5

[Jiminy Glick]

Yes, way better.

[arh1109]

I think the Lakers are slightly better but not by much. They have some quality young players in Kuzma, Ball, and Ingram. I think once they get one or two more players they’ll be pretty good. The cavs roster isn’t historically bad but their role players didn’t pan out. Thompson and Love are starters on most team and have many bench players.

[NPZ]

Lakers have some holes to fill in their roster, but I think it looks pretty good overall.

SG: KCP / Hart
PG: Rondo / Lonzo
C: Starter ? / McGee
SF: Ingram / Deng
PF: Lebron / Kuzma

I'm sure the above players will be used in various combinations and minutes played depending on what works best.

And of course this could all get thrown out the window if they decide to get Leonard this season via a trade.

But, should be a fun season.

If Brawn is able to make KCP not wanna make me scratch my eyeballs out, he's a GOD, not a King. The impossible task.

[tidho]

cavs ranked last in defense last year, (or close to it) lakers ranked 13th. So Lakers. What Kevin love contributes on offense is washed up in what he gives up on defense. You're only thinking on one side of the ball. Cavs were probably a little better on offense last year, but Lakers are leagues ahead in defense, so overall his supporting cast is better taking into account offense + defense and not just offense like every other posts seems to only consider.

How did you come to the conclusion that Love was responsible for the Cavaliers being a poor regular season defensive team? In addition to folks like IT and Rose, LeBron was a pretty big contributor to the Cavaliers regular season defensive atrociousness. Will be interesting to see if Cleveland hops up in those rankings while LA falls a bit. Now post season, that's an entirely different story.

[The Rebel]

cavs ranked last in defense last year, (or close to it) lakers ranked 13th. So Lakers. What Kevin love contributes on offense is washed up in what he gives up on defense. You're only thinking on one side of the ball. Cavs were probably a little better on offense last year, but Lakers are leagues ahead in defense, so overall his supporting cast is better taking into account offense + defense and not just offense like every other posts seems to only consider.

Love has been arguably the Cavs best defender the last couple of years, the Lakers meanwhile lost 2 of their top 3 defenders between trading Nance and Randle walking. I would not be so sure that the difference is oing to be that big on defense.

[BostonCouchGM]

Yes. This is arguably the best roster Lebron has ever had. People are thinking about first year Lonzo, Kuzma and Hart plus 2nd year Ingram but should be thinking about second year Lonzo, Kuzma, and Hart plus third year Ingram because those are actually the players Lebron will be getting. Add KCP, Rondo, Wagner, Svi, Javale, plus Lance and this is right there with the 2011 MIA roster. It's WAY better than CLE. It's not even close really

[levon]

Yes. This is arguably the best roster Lebron has ever had. People are thinking about first year Lonzo, Kuzma and Hart plus 2nd year Ingram but should be thinking about second year Lonzo, Kuzma, and Hart plus third year Ingram because those are actually the players Lebron will be getting. Add KCP, Rondo, Wagner, Svi, Javale, plus Lance and this is right there with the 2011 MIA roster. It's WAY better than CLE. It's not even close really

There's no prime Wade and prime Bosh on this roster, so this is not his best team.

But consider this: Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, and Svi are making a combined 4.6 million next year.
Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball, both 20, are making a combined 12 million next year.

That is astronomical value for the price of a starting center from 2016. They are assets that will only grow in value as Lebron declines, and allows them to bring another superstar for free next year.

[7thshield]

Are the Lakers even better than Cleveland was last year? I don't really see it. Cleveland at least had Kevin Love. Who's LA's second best player? Kyle Kuzma? Kentavious Caldwell-Pope?

And LeGM bringing in Rondo, Lance and McGee? really? Those are 3 horrible players.

https://twitter.com/JacobEGoldstein/

This guy's model has LA as barely making the 8th seed

shutup

[Edrees]

cavs ranked last in defense last year, (or close to it) lakers ranked 13th. So Lakers. What Kevin love contributes on offense is washed up in what he gives up on defense. You're only thinking on one side of the ball. Cavs were probably a little better on offense last year, but Lakers are leagues ahead in defense, so overall his supporting cast is better taking into account offense + defense and not just offense like every other posts seems to only consider.

How did you come to the conclusion that Love was responsible for the Cavaliers being a poor regular season defensive team? In addition to folks like IT and Rose, LeBron was a pretty big contributor to the Cavaliers regular season defensive atrociousness. Will be interesting to see if Cleveland hops up in those rankings while LA falls a bit. Now post season, that's an entirely different story.

That's not my conclusion. My conclusion is that looking at both offense and defense overall Lebrons supporting cast has improved. Sure Love was one of the "better" defenders on that team but he was still a below average defender. My point is that switching Love out for someone like Ingram is a downgrade offensively but upgrade defensively.

You have a fair point about Lebron himself but if we're going to factor in Lebron to the equation suddenly doesn't that mean we need to give all the Lakers players a huge boost on offense since the Lakers will be benfiting from nearly 10 more assists per game and Lebron's gravity? Not really fair to factor in his "negative" defense impact to the Lakers and ignore the fact that he'll make the Lakers offensive players that much better.

IT was also on the Lakers last season so he won't be there to drag down our defense either. He played a lot more minutes for the Lakers, as well.

cavs ranked last in defense last year, (or close to it) lakers ranked 13th. So Lakers. What Kevin love contributes on offense is washed up in what he gives up on defense. You're only thinking on one side of the ball. Cavs were probably a little better on offense last year, but Lakers are leagues ahead in defense, so overall his supporting cast is better taking into account offense + defense and not just offense like every other posts seems to only consider.

Love has been arguably the Cavs best defender the last couple of years, the Lakers meanwhile lost 2 of their top 3 defenders between trading Nance and Randle walking. I would not be so sure that the difference is oing to be that big on defense.

Randle will be a blow for sure but our defense didn't get worse after trading Nance. Probably because we lost Clarkson as well and his minutes were given to Hart who is a much superior defender to Clarkson. Basically that ranking already absorbed the loss of nance.

[G35]

We already had this thread...and yes, the Lakers cast is clearly better. The rankings would look something like this:

Love
Ingram
Kuzma
Ball
Rondo
Hart
Pope
Stephenson
Hill
Green
Smith
McGee
Korver
Nance
Clarkson
Hood

Love is the only guy who would even have a chance of starting for the Lakers and he is injury prone.

Overall that's about right though you left off Thompson who should be either above or below Rondo. Korver should also be above JR. JR was terrible last season while Korver was still pretty good.

I don't think the ratings are accurate.

Would you rather have Kyle Korver or Lonzo Ball next to Lebron? This is Korver hands down one of the best 3pt shooters in the game and I would not be surprised if the Lakers tried to trade for him.

This should not be based on pure talent but fit next to Lebron......

[The Rebel]

Yes. This is arguably the best roster Lebron has ever had. People are thinking about first year Lonzo, Kuzma and Hart plus 2nd year Ingram but should be thinking about second year Lonzo, Kuzma, and Hart plus third year Ingram because those are actually the players Lebron will be getting. Add KCP, Rondo, Wagner, Svi, Javale, plus Lance and this is right there with the 2011 MIA roster. It's WAY better than CLE. It's not even close really

I think you need to lay off the drugs.

Even if Ingram and a couple of the other young guys improve they are going to have a hard time reaching the Cavs just a couple of years ago and that roster was no where near as good as the Heat roster.