RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#13 2018-19

[Duke4life831]

Not sure how you can have embiid, jokic, and then not have Towns after. He should arguably be ahead of Jokic who is also a brutal defender.

Almost every stat shows Jokic to be a + defender while almost every stat shows Towns to be a brutal defender. Just cause Jokic isnt an elite rim protector doesnt make him a bad defender. He plays very smart and is also elite for a big when it comes to getting steals.

[HoopsterJones]

Close between Dipo and Kyrie.

[iggymcfrack]

This is going to be such a **** travesty if Kyrie gets this spot. The Pacers wouldn’t have won 25 games without Oladipo. They were expected to win 30.5 even with him going into the season. Then, when he was on the bench they got outscored by more points per 48 minutes than any team in the NBA except the Phoenix Suns. When he missed games altogether, they went 0-7.

But he blossomed before our eyes into a bonafide superstar on both ends of the floor. He dragged that team, scratching and clawing to a 48-27 record when he did play. He single-handedly turned low grade tanking trash into a competitive playoff team.

But was he done? Oh no. Then he goes head to head with LeBron ****’ James, and comes closer to outplaying him than anyone has done since 2011. He takes the worse supporting cast and his team outscores the Cavs by 10.4 points per game when he’s on the floor. Without a boneheaded coaching decision to sit Oladipo nearly the entire first half with “foul trouble” in a game he’d ultimately finish with 3 fouls, the Pacers absolutely take that series.

For the season, the Pacers played better with Oladipo on the floor than the Celtics played with Kyrie on the floor, outscoring the opposition by 6.6 points per game whereas Boston could only manage 5.2 with Kyrie. And what were the Celtics like without Kyrie? Were they 20-25 win lottery trash? No, they made the conference finals! Kyrie couldn’t even elevate the Eastern conference runner-up Boston Celtics to the same level as Oladipo elevated 20-25 win lottery trash! The idea that this is a real question is absolutely ludicrous. And that’s before you take into account that Kyrie never gets through a season healthy or that Oladipo’s younger and still improving while Kyrie’s at an age where players usually plateau. Seriously, everything’s in Oladipo’s favor here other than Kyrie averaging 1 more point a game. If one point means more than everything else you can do on a basketball court, let’s just post the 2018 PPG leaders and skip the voting altogether.

[SlowPaced]

Voted Kyrie Irving. I think the forum is badly suffering from recency and injury bias when it comes to Kyrie and also ignoring the added level of difficulty in the Playoffs. Kyrie is arguably the most battle-tested offensive player among non-superstars. His ability to make shots against elite defensive coverage is getting extremely underrated here. We just saw Lillard completely disappear against the Pelicans and get swept and some folks are voting for him over Kyrie. Really? You really think Kyrie would get shut down like that?

I really have the feeling RealGM has gone way too far up its own arse when it comes to scoring. Knowing casual fans overrate scoring is one thing, but underrating the ability to score to the extent RealGM does is something else. Scoring has to come from somewhere. Having a player that can still get his points against elite defense is of tremendous help. It really boggles my mind that the impact of isolation scoring against elite defenses in the Playoffs still gets ignored despite '16 Finals and '18 Conference Finals making a significant point to that end.

The lesson of the 2018 conference finals wasn’t that you need to be able to score in isolation to have value. It was that everyone on the floor needs to be at least competent on defense or you’re gonna get attacked relentlessly play after play after play, especially if you’re one of the better scorers on the other end.

Harden got attacked repeatedly and he stepped his defensive game up to a level Kyrie is incapable of, but he was too tired to still be making shots in Game 6 and 7. Steph who’s always been a MUCH better defender than Kyrie got attacked relentlessly and he had one of his worst series in the last 5 years. Rozier who’s MUCH better than Kyrie on D got attacked relentlessly and he was so tired by game 7 he shot 0/10 from 3.

Excellent straw man. I didn't say "you need to be able to score in isolation to have value", nor did I suggest that the impact of the ability to score in iso was the only thing to take away from that series. A series can have multiple factors impacting its outcome.

If you think the success of '16 Cavaliers and '18 Rockets against the Warriors didn't prove isolation scoring to be a bigger weapon than it gets credit for around these circles, I would question your ability to draw conclusions from games. Cavs beat the Warriors with LeBron/Kyrie isos, and the Rockets almost beat them with Harden/Paul/Gordon isos.

[mefromthefuture]

Not sure how you can have embiid, jokic, and then not have Towns after. He should arguably be ahead of Jokic who is also a brutal defender.

Almost every stat shows Jokic to be a + defender while almost every stat shows Towns to be a brutal defender. Just cause Jokic isnt an elite rim protector doesnt make him a bad defender. He plays very smart and is also elite for a big when it comes to getting steals.

Towns is a better scorer, shooter, rebounder, a shot blocker, has better stamina

Jokic is better at passing and steals [and he is super smart lol]

Jokic 12th best player but man that Towns is overrated lol

[illuminati666]

The amount Kyrie is dropping is getting ridiculous. The team makes one strong playoff run without him and people forget how good he is. Kyrie is one of the best scorers and shot creaters I've ever seen. Off his handle he can score anything at the rim from distance. This is getting out of hand

[Infinite Llamas]

Jokic pick was fine. Butler pick was ridiculous.

[Infinite Llamas]

I'd have Kyrie at about 15. I would take Oladipo over Kyrie 100 out of 100 times.

[Infinite Llamas]

Not sure how you can have embiid, jokic, and then not have Towns after. He should arguably be ahead of Jokic who is also a brutal defender.

Almost every stat shows Jokic to be a + defender while almost every stat shows Towns to be a brutal defender. Just cause Jokic isnt an elite rim protector doesnt make him a bad defender. He plays very smart and is also elite for a big when it comes to getting steals.

Towns is a better scorer, shooter, rebounder, a shot blocker, has better stamina

Jokic is better at passing and steals [and he is super smart lol]

Jokic 12th best player but man that Towns is overrated lol

I don't think Towns is a better scorer than Jokic. Jokic doesn't look to score every time like Towns does and that might be the difference.

[iggymcfrack]

Not sure how you can have embiid, jokic, and then not have Towns after. He should arguably be ahead of Jokic who is also a brutal defender.

Almost every stat shows Jokic to be a + defender while almost every stat shows Towns to be a brutal defender. Just cause Jokic isnt an elite rim protector doesnt make him a bad defender. He plays very smart and is also elite for a big when it comes to getting steals.

Towns is a better scorer, shooter, rebounder, a shot blocker, has better stamina

Jokic is better at passing and steals [and he is super smart lol]

Jokic 12th best player but man that Towns is overrated lol

How’s counting box score categories going for you? Towns averages 1 more rebound per 100 possessions and 2 more points per 100 possessions, that’s two things for Towns! Jokic is the best playmaking big man in the history of the game, and averages 6 more assists per 100 minutes, one thing for Jokic. Dividing defense into just steals and blocks is pretty silly too.

I like Towns and I’d vote for him somewhere in the 17-20 range, but acting like he’s on the same level as Jokic is completely incorrect. Jokic is clearly a much better overall defender and a MUCH MUCH MUCH better playmaker, and that’s enough to more than make up for Towns’ smaller edges on scoring (including shooting efficiency) and rebounding.

[GeorgeMarcus]

The amount Kyrie is dropping is getting ridiculous. The team makes one strong playoff run without him and people forget how good he is. Kyrie is one of the best scorers and shot creaters I've ever seen. Off his handle he can score anything at the rim from distance. This is getting out of hand

Kyrie at ~15 is fine IMO, but when he was on the Cavs he was never regarded as a top 10 player. Why would that change based on last season?

[Sandman88]

Not sure how you can have embiid, jokic, and then not have Towns after. He should arguably be ahead of Jokic who is also a brutal defender.

Almost every stat shows Jokic to be a + defender while almost every stat shows Towns to be a brutal defender. Just cause Jokic isnt an elite rim protector doesnt make him a bad defender. He plays very smart and is also elite for a big when it comes to getting steals.

Still would rather have towns, dude is a beast and is far and away a better athlete and scorer. I don't think the defensive gap is as wide as the advanced stats show, having seen them both quite a bit. Aside from butler, the Wolves roster is quite flawed and they lack shooters/perimeter defence. If they build properly around towns, he'd look a whole lot better.

[ChromeKid]

Gotta go Oladipo here, he put it all together last year. Felt like watching a mini Kawhi, kyrie's lack of a defensive game once again pushes him back a spot.

[Impuniti]

Going to need to see 1 more season of Dipo to know whether he is a 1 season wonder or not. That's why I went with Kyrie, though his injury issues are a concern.

[mefromthefuture]

Almost every stat shows Jokic to be a + defender while almost every stat shows Towns to be a brutal defender. Just cause Jokic isnt an elite rim protector doesnt make him a bad defender. He plays very smart and is also elite for a big when it comes to getting steals.

Towns is a better scorer, shooter, rebounder, a shot blocker, has better stamina

Jokic is better at passing and steals [and he is super smart lol]

Jokic 12th best player but man that Towns is overrated lol

How’s counting box score categories going for you? Towns averages 1 more rebound per 100 possessions and 2 more points per 100 possessions, that’s two things for Towns! Jokic is the best playmaking big man in the history of the game, and averages 6 more assists per 100 minutes, one thing for Jokic. Dividing defense into just steals and blocks is pretty silly too.

I like Towns and I’d vote for him somewhere in the 17-20 range, but acting like he’s on the same level as Jokic is completely incorrect. Jokic is clearly a much better overall defender and a MUCH MUCH MUCH better playmaker, and that’s enough to more than make up for Towns’ smaller edges on scoring (including shooting efficiency) and rebounding.

per 100 possessions Towns ORtg is 127 to Jokic`s 121 and same defensive of rating at 107

And Towns can also play those extra possessions because he is better shape

Not knowing what the stat of month is do we use offensive and defensive win shares? Ws per48

[John Murdoch]

I love AD , but gun to my head i take Kawhi over him

[GeorgeMarcus]

Towns is a better scorer, shooter, rebounder, a shot blocker, has better stamina

Jokic is better at passing and steals [and he is super smart lol]

Jokic 12th best player but man that Towns is overrated lol

How’s counting box score categories going for you? Towns averages 1 more rebound per 100 possessions and 2 more points per 100 possessions, that’s two things for Towns! Jokic is the best playmaking big man in the history of the game, and averages 6 more assists per 100 minutes, one thing for Jokic. Dividing defense into just steals and blocks is pretty silly too.

I like Towns and I’d vote for him somewhere in the 17-20 range, but acting like he’s on the same level as Jokic is completely incorrect. Jokic is clearly a much better overall defender and a MUCH MUCH MUCH better playmaker, and that’s enough to more than make up for Towns’ smaller edges on scoring (including shooting efficiency) and rebounding.

per 100 possessions Towns ORtg is 127 to Jokic`s 121 and same defensive of rating at 107

And Towns can also play those extra possessions because he is better shape

Not knowing what the stat of month is do we use offensive and defensive win shares? Ws per48

Jokic didn't have a Jimmy Butler, which greatly affects offensive and defensive ratings.

[GQ Hot Dog]

I love AD , but gun to my head i take Kawhi over him

I think most people would agree the only reason he fell to #6 is because of his lost year. A healthy Kawhi is neck-and-neck with Curry for #3 in my mind.

[mefromthefuture]

How’s counting box score categories going for you? Towns averages 1 more rebound per 100 possessions and 2 more points per 100 possessions, that’s two things for Towns! Jokic is the best playmaking big man in the history of the game, and averages 6 more assists per 100 minutes, one thing for Jokic. Dividing defense into just steals and blocks is pretty silly too.

I like Towns and I’d vote for him somewhere in the 17-20 range, but acting like he’s on the same level as Jokic is completely incorrect. Jokic is clearly a much better overall defender and a MUCH MUCH MUCH better playmaker, and that’s enough to more than make up for Towns’ smaller edges on scoring (including shooting efficiency) and rebounding.

per 100 possessions Towns ORtg is 127 to Jokic`s 121 and same defensive of rating at 107

And Towns can also play those extra possessions because he is better shape

Not knowing what the stat of month is do we use offensive and defensive win shares? Ws per48

Jokic didn't have a Jimmy Butler, which greatly affects offensive and defensive ratings.

Also didn't play with Butler the year before and KAT had better stats the year before without jimmy b.

Also Jokic didnt play with Jamal Crawford chucker on offense worst defender in the NBA

[GeorgeMarcus]

per 100 possessions Towns ORtg is 127 to Jokic`s 121 and same defensive of rating at 107

And Towns can also play those extra possessions because he is better shape

Not knowing what the stat of month is do we use offensive and defensive win shares? Ws per48

Jokic didn't have a Jimmy Butler, which greatly affects offensive and defensive ratings.

Also didn't play with Butler the year before and KAT had better stats the year before without jimmy b.

Also Jokic didnt play with Jamal Crawford chucker on offense worst defender in the NBA

That’s not true. Jokic had a better ORtg and DRtg last year.