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bondom34 wrote:4-6. GSW, HOU, Utah, then maybe. If Roberson were healthy I'd say they could be as high as 3 but without him figure a few more losses and that's enough to drop a couple spots. Still a solid playoff team, just down a spot or 2.

VanWest82 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:4-6. GSW, HOU, Utah, then maybe. If Roberson were healthy I'd say they could be as high as 3 but without him figure a few more losses and that's enough to drop a couple spots. Still a solid playoff team, just down a spot or 2.

Tough break with Roberson. It was bad enough he had to have that second procedure, and now he's had another one? Patella injuries are no joke.

bondom34 wrote:

VanWest82 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:4-6. GSW, HOU, Utah, then maybe. If Roberson were healthy I'd say they could be as high as 3 but without him figure a few more losses and that's enough to drop a couple spots. Still a solid playoff team, just down a spot or 2.

Tough break with Roberson. It was bad enough he had to have that second procedure, and now he's had another one? Patella injuries are no joke.

Yeah and he may never be the same too which sucks. I like the new bench guys enough that they look solid, and losing Melo helps a lot imo.

VanWest82 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

VanWest82 wrote:
Tough break with Roberson. It was bad enough he had to have that second procedure, and now he's had another one? Patella injuries are no joke.

Yeah and he may never be the same too which sucks. I like the new bench guys enough that they look solid, and losing Melo helps a lot imo.

Who are they planning on starting at the 2?

bondom34 wrote:

VanWest82 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Yeah and he may never be the same too which sucks. I like the new bench guys enough that they look solid, and losing Melo helps a lot imo.

Who are they planning on starting at the 2?

Not totally sure but they seem to like Ferguson (I don't). Personally just wrote part of an article for SB Nation about this and I'd start Diallo right away alongside Patterson. So Westbrook/Diallo/George/Patterson/Adams with Grant off the bench. They just need shooting.

VanWest82 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

VanWest82 wrote:Who are they planning on starting at the 2?

Not totally sure but they seem to like Ferguson (I don't). Personally just wrote part of an article for SB Nation about this and I'd start Diallo right away alongside Patterson. So Westbrook/Diallo/George/Patterson/Adams with Grant off the bench. They just need shooting.

Interesting. I initially had Abrines in the question. I feel like that's the barometer for how bad you need shooting: are you willing to start Abrines? Lol.

Got a link to the article?

I’m of the belief that the ideal starters given the options at hand for Billy Donovan are Patrick Patterson and Hamidou Diallo. The former seems to be a popular choice by many and for good reason, he’s a heady vet who brings pretty solid defense while being able to stretch the floor for Westbrook and George to function better on offense. We have a pretty small sample to work on, but last year per Cleaning the Glass the three man lineup of Westbrook/George/Adams without Carmelo Anthony but with Grant had a +5.6 net rating in 299 possessions. In 157 possessions with Patterson in for Grant that ballooned to +17.0. That number realistically isn’t sustainable especially without Roberson but the offense can definitely flow a bit better

The starting lineup currently has one locked in plus three point shooting option in George. Westbrook isn’t awful, but certainly not a floor spacer and Steven (though he can light it up in practice!) just doesn’t have that as part of his game at all. It’s incredibly difficult to have an efficient offense in the NBA today without being an at least average and somewhat high volume three point shooting lineup on the court most times (last year only two top 10 offenses ranked below 15th in both three point shooting frequency and percentage, Charlotte and the Clippers). The Thunder simply lack those options. Adding Patterson to the lineup gives a bit more shooting than we’ve seen from Grant and the defensive drop off is minimal (if there at all). In a down year Patterson’s regular season DRAPM was similar to that of Grant in what many thought was Grant’s breakout year.



As for the shooting guard position we’re in essence drawing from whatever we deem is the least flawed of some very flawed options. Alex Abrines offers shooting, but not much else. Terrance Ferguson is the second year pro who flashed some tools but also showed he’s a bit tentative at times. Hamidou Diallo is the raw second round rookie who played well in summer league and preseason but hasn’t seen the bright lights of the NBA yet. Personally I eliminate Abrines right away as the defensive flaws are too much right now and I’d prefer to have one semi-reliable shooter off the bench and he’s all the team has right now.

I may be foolish in believing in games that don’t really matter yet but I’m taking the mystery.

Watch on YouTube

Diallo was taken with the 45th pick in last year’s draft and currently is the same age as Terrance Ferguson. The difference I can see so far between the two is that Diallo shows more assertiveness and confidence while Ferguson shies away more in game. Ferguson is also more slight of build (6’ 7” 184 pounds) than Diallo (6’5” 198 pounds) and it shows in his defense at times.

While Ferguson showed flashes last year right away against the Lakers, it never really developed further and at this point I’d give the nod to the rookie who in my eyes has more promise. From The Ringer’s NBA Draft guide Diallo has been compared to Tony Allen in some ways and his biggest knocks were an inability to be a lead guard (hey, they don’t need or want him to be one!) and his shot mechanics which reportedly are improved. His strengths included being a versatile defender who hustles and rebounds well. Honestly he sounds like a guy Sam Presti would draft.

The combination of Diallo’s physical tools and Patterson’s intelligence and shooting to me make this the duo who should be added to the starting lineup until Andre Roberson returns.

bondom34 wrote:

VanWest82 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Not totally sure but they seem to like Ferguson (I don't). Personally just wrote part of an article for SB Nation about this and I'd start Diallo right away alongside Patterson. So Westbrook/Diallo/George/Patterson/Adams with Grant off the bench. They just need shooting.

Interesting. I initially had Abrines in the question. I feel like that's the barometer for how bad you need shooting: are you willing to start Abrines? Lol.

Got a link to the article?

It's not up yet but should be this weekend.

https://www.welcometoloudcity.com/

But my part is gonna be this:

Spoiler:

I’m of the belief that the ideal starters given the options at hand for Billy Donovan are Patrick Patterson and Hamidou Diallo. The former seems to be a popular choice by many and for good reason, he’s a heady vet who brings pretty solid defense while being able to stretch the floor for Westbrook and George to function better on offense. We have a pretty small sample to work on, but last year per Cleaning the Glass the three man lineup of Westbrook/George/Adams without Carmelo Anthony but with Grant had a +5.6 net rating in 299 possessions. In 157 possessions with Patterson in for Grant that ballooned to +17.0. That number realistically isn’t sustainable especially without Roberson but the offense can definitely flow a bit better

The starting lineup currently has one locked in plus three point shooting option in George. Westbrook isn’t awful, but certainly not a floor spacer and Steven (though he can light it up in practice!) just doesn’t have that as part of his game at all. It’s incredibly difficult to have an efficient offense in the NBA today without being an at least average and somewhat high volume three point shooting lineup on the court most times (last year only two top 10 offenses ranked below 15th in both three point shooting frequency and percentage, Charlotte and the Clippers). The Thunder simply lack those options. Adding Patterson to the lineup gives a bit more shooting than we’ve seen from Grant and the defensive drop off is minimal (if there at all). In a down year Patterson’s regular season DRAPM was similar to that of Grant in what many thought was Grant’s breakout year.



As for the shooting guard position we’re in essence drawing from whatever we deem is the least flawed of some very flawed options. Alex Abrines offers shooting, but not much else. Terrance Ferguson is the second year pro who flashed some tools but also showed he’s a bit tentative at times. Hamidou Diallo is the raw second round rookie who played well in summer league and preseason but hasn’t seen the bright lights of the NBA yet. Personally I eliminate Abrines right away as the defensive flaws are too much right now and I’d prefer to have one semi-reliable shooter off the bench and he’s all the team has right now.

I may be foolish in believing in games that don’t really matter yet but I’m taking the mystery.

Watch on YouTube

Diallo was taken with the 45th pick in last year’s draft and currently is the same age as Terrance Ferguson. The difference I can see so far between the two is that Diallo shows more assertiveness and confidence while Ferguson shies away more in game. Ferguson is also more slight of build (6’ 7” 184 pounds) than Diallo (6’5” 198 pounds) and it shows in his defense at times.

While Ferguson showed flashes last year right away against the Lakers, it never really developed further and at this point I’d give the nod to the rookie who in my eyes has more promise. From The Ringer’s NBA Draft guide Diallo has been compared to Tony Allen in some ways and his biggest knocks were an inability to be a lead guard (hey, they don’t need or want him to be one!) and his shot mechanics which reportedly are improved. His strengths included being a versatile defender who hustles and rebounds well. Honestly he sounds like a guy Sam Presti would draft.

The combination of Diallo’s physical tools and Patterson’s intelligence and shooting to me make this the duo who should be added to the starting lineup until Andre Roberson returns.

VanWest82 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

VanWest82 wrote:Interesting. I initially had Abrines in the question. I feel like that's the barometer for how bad you need shooting: are you willing to start Abrines? Lol.

Got a link to the article?

It's not up yet but should be this weekend.

https://www.welcometoloudcity.com/

But my part is gonna be this:

Spoiler:

I’m of the belief that the ideal starters given the options at hand for Billy Donovan are Patrick Patterson and Hamidou Diallo. The former seems to be a popular choice by many and for good reason, he’s a heady vet who brings pretty solid defense while being able to stretch the floor for Westbrook and George to function better on offense. We have a pretty small sample to work on, but last year per Cleaning the Glass the three man lineup of Westbrook/George/Adams without Carmelo Anthony but with Grant had a +5.6 net rating in 299 possessions. In 157 possessions with Patterson in for Grant that ballooned to +17.0. That number realistically isn’t sustainable especially without Roberson but the offense can definitely flow a bit better

The starting lineup currently has one locked in plus three point shooting option in George. Westbrook isn’t awful, but certainly not a floor spacer and Steven (though he can light it up in practice!) just doesn’t have that as part of his game at all. It’s incredibly difficult to have an efficient offense in the NBA today without being an at least average and somewhat high volume three point shooting lineup on the court most times (last year only two top 10 offenses ranked below 15th in both three point shooting frequency and percentage, Charlotte and the Clippers). The Thunder simply lack those options. Adding Patterson to the lineup gives a bit more shooting than we’ve seen from Grant and the defensive drop off is minimal (if there at all). In a down year Patterson’s regular season DRAPM was similar to that of Grant in what many thought was Grant’s breakout year.



As for the shooting guard position we’re in essence drawing from whatever we deem is the least flawed of some very flawed options. Alex Abrines offers shooting, but not much else. Terrance Ferguson is the second year pro who flashed some tools but also showed he’s a bit tentative at times. Hamidou Diallo is the raw second round rookie who played well in summer league and preseason but hasn’t seen the bright lights of the NBA yet. Personally I eliminate Abrines right away as the defensive flaws are too much right now and I’d prefer to have one semi-reliable shooter off the bench and he’s all the team has right now.

I may be foolish in believing in games that don’t really matter yet but I’m taking the mystery.

Watch on YouTube

Diallo was taken with the 45th pick in last year’s draft and currently is the same age as Terrance Ferguson. The difference I can see so far between the two is that Diallo shows more assertiveness and confidence while Ferguson shies away more in game. Ferguson is also more slight of build (6’ 7” 184 pounds) than Diallo (6’5” 198 pounds) and it shows in his defense at times.

While Ferguson showed flashes last year right away against the Lakers, it never really developed further and at this point I’d give the nod to the rookie who in my eyes has more promise. From The Ringer’s NBA Draft guide Diallo has been compared to Tony Allen in some ways and his biggest knocks were an inability to be a lead guard (hey, they don’t need or want him to be one!) and his shot mechanics which reportedly are improved. His strengths included being a versatile defender who hustles and rebounds well. Honestly he sounds like a guy Sam Presti would draft.

The combination of Diallo’s physical tools and Patterson’s intelligence and shooting to me make this the duo who should be added to the starting lineup until Andre Roberson returns.

Nice work! That's super funny you had that ready to go.

Raps2018Champs wrote:Better. Addition by subtraction.

shi-woo wrote:The only thing holding the Thunder back is their subpar coaching. Donavan is probably the worst coach of any serious playoff team in the West, and by a fair margin. Even Mike Malone, and Terry Stotts have a leg up on him. So I don't expect too much from them, but do think they have the talent to go far.

Westbrook, George, and Adams is a great core, and they all cover up each others weaknesses. If they start Grant and Abrines, I think they match up well with anyone.

What I'll be looking for from OKC is their pace. Thunder were 16th in the NBA in pace last year, and that is unacceptable with Westbrook as your best player. With Schroeder and Westbrook running the show, Okc needs to be pushing it.


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FoundANewSlant wrote:not really, they're better because of the additions they made. if they didn't have Melo last season, who are you running out on the floor?

Westbrook/PG/Roberson/Grant/Adams? 4 dudes who can't shoot

FoundANewSlant wrote:no matter the coach, you can't change much when your star player plays the way he does. Westbrook is the biggest factor propelling OKC, but also the biggest thing holding them back. His play style is great for regular season, but is not conducive to winning playoff basketball

his thing about "shutting Rubio down" last playoffs proved once again the guy just doesn't get it

lebron stopper wrote:

FoundANewSlant wrote:not really, they're better because of the additions they made. if they didn't have Melo last season, who are you running out on the floor?

Westbrook/PG/Roberson/Grant/Adams? 4 dudes who can't shoot

Patrick Patterson. Which was the original plan anyways before they traded for Carmelo Anthony.

FoundANewSlant wrote:no matter the coach, you can't change much when your star player plays the way he does. Westbrook is the biggest factor propelling OKC, but also the biggest thing holding them back. His play style is great for regular season, but is not conducive to winning playoff basketball

his thing about "shutting Rubio down" last playoffs proved once again the guy just doesn't get it

While I agree that Westbrook got too caught up in individual matchups, Billy Donovan gave tons of minutes in the playoffs to Carmelo Anthony, who got utterly destroyed by Derrick Favors, got chewed up alive guarding in space and defending the PnR against the Jazz offense, couldn't hit open shots, and took too many bad contested shots on top of that. Complete and total dead weight on both ends of the floor, and yet he played 32.3 MPG.

bondom34 wrote:4-6. GSW, HOU, Utah, then maybe. If Roberson were healthy I'd say they could be as high as 3 but without him figure a few more losses and that's enough to drop a couple spots. Still a solid playoff team, just down a spot or 2.