Playing defense is going extinct for a reason

[Wolfgang630]

I was glued to the tv watching the Knicks win games 87 - 76 so I'm struggling to enjoy the NBA now. I wish there was more variety. By basing everything on statistics, every team ends up playing the same because that's what what gives the percentage time win. The players are gifted but it's not entertaining to me.

The players in the 90’s are gifted too. Don’t let no one feed you that **** about players being so much better today. Imagine the 90’s Knicks today with Camby, Houston and Sprewell with all the space and shooting 3’s because Ewing would shoot 3’s too.

[AdagioPace]

is there a way to give defenses more advantage without hindering modern efficient offenses? This the problem the NBA will have to face soon.

Even if offenses are better nowadays in a vacuum it's impossible to win games by defense alone. This is a clear case of discrimination

[JellosJigglin]

I was glued to the tv watching the Knicks win games 87 - 76 so I'm struggling to enjoy the NBA now. I wish there was more variety. By basing everything on statistics, every team ends up playing the same because that's what what gives the percentage time win. The players are gifted but it's not entertaining to me.

I loved those games. I wonder how many people complaining about that era even watched the NBA then.

[AIfan3]

Its been this way since the mid 00s. There was a great article floating around NBA.com that went in depth about how those rule changes "modernized" the NBA and made it more watchable for the casual fan. NBA purists may hate Stern, but the guy was a marketing genius. After those rules changes the NBA has been killing it with revenue. Physical defense is basically dead, but the NBA as a money making machine is thriving..

[XxIronChainzxX]

Its been this way since the mid 00s. There was a great article floating around NBA.com that went in depth about how those rule changes "modernized" the NBA and made it more watchable for the casual fan. NBA purists may hate Stern, but the guy was a marketing genius. After those rules changes the NBA has been killing it with revenue. Physical defense is basically dead, but the NBA as a money making machine is thriving..

There's a line though. The raptors won games 110ish - 100 the last few times and those were "low scoring". Now I don't mind that and I haven't seen every team play yet, but thinking about the Kings putting up 130?

[I_Like_Dirt]

Defense is still absolutely being played. It's just that defense is changing rather dramatically. It's no longer the clutch and grab one-on-one defense. It's a coordinated team defense where players need to be able to move all over the floor. I know it's tough for people to understand how Nikola Jokic can be a better defender than Hassan Whiteside but it's true. That old school defense is long gone. Even Rudy Gobert, if you watch him, isn't really a traditional shotblocker. He moves all over the floor and disrupts everyone's shots out to the 3-point line, essentially. Good defense involves lots of movement not strength to hold your opponent in place. The Celtics, Raptors, Blazers, Sixers, Rockets, Warriors, etc. have all figured this out. Offense is ahead of defense right now and it will probably remain that way for a bit, but give defenses a chance to catch up. Some teams are actually pretty good there. The Bucks also seem to be figuring this out this season, too, playing much better defense than they have in the past.

[cool007]

This has become not much defense, no resistance and just outscoring your opponent to win games - that's what the league has become.

For casual fans, this is fine but the die hard fans who have been watching for years and years and different eras, this is practically unwatchable.

Don't get me wrong, I do like shooting 3s, high scoring games but I also like competitive games where defenses are played. The main reason I don't like watching All-Star games anymore is because it's no defense chuckfest. Now we are going to see this during regular season - all 82 games???

PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!

[I_Like_Dirt]

For casual fans, this is fine but the die hard fans who have been watching for years and years and different eras, this is practically unwatchable.

That depends on how many eras you've actually watched basketball for. All that hand-check defense where teams didn't even bother to try defending until the player got at least to the foul line didn't exactly thrill me. There are still some kinks to work out but the fact that teams are actually playing like teams rather than individuals more than ever before and I like that.

[E-Balla]

Pace is the biggest factor. So far this season the average pace is around 101 to 102.

Just for reference, in 2012-2013 the average pace was around 92.

A 10-11% jump in pace is pretty substantial. That's a good amount of extra possessions teams are getting now compared to 5-6 years ago so of course points per game will be higher, it doesn't mean defense is worse than it was.

Now if you want to make the argument that playing defense is becoming lazier, then you have a point. Teams are switching way more than they used to

The league average ORTG is 110.9. That's the same ORTG as the 2016 Cavs. Yes the average team now is as good offensively as the 2016 Cavs. Excluding 2017 and 2018 which are the 2 highest ORTG seasons ever the next closest NBA season was 2.6 lower than the current ORTG. Meanwhile as high as the pace is we've seen higher as recently as 86 but in PPG it hasn't been this high since 1970.

TL;DR: You're wrong and defenses have never been this garbage in league history.

Sample size tho? Has any team even played more than three games yet?

Even beyond the sample size this opening week is absurd in offensive efficiency. I'm expecting it to drop but 2017 and 2018 are already the top 2 years in ORTG by a distance. I don't think 2019 will show a regression to the norm.

[E-Balla]

For casual fans, this is fine but the die hard fans who have been watching for years and years and different eras, this is practically unwatchable.

That depends on how many eras you've actually watched basketball for. All that hand-check defense where teams didn't even bother to try defending until the player got at least to the foul line didn't exactly thrill me. There are still some kinks to work out but the fact that teams are actually playing like teams rather than individuals more than ever before and I like that.

Playing like teams = running PNR until you get a favorable matchup to isolate.

[Dudeinthepaint1]

I watched a game the other night where the teams attempted 3 pointers on 5 or 6 consecutive possessions. Not a player even stepping near the paint. I just liked it when a 3 point shot was a part of the offense rather than the focus. A three was exciting when it wasn't something used over and over.

The endless jump shooting makes everyone feel the same. I enjoy team ball but I do like seeing individuals shine.

[E-Balla]

Graph showing post 3 point line ORTG and pace trends (I removed 99-04 since that's akin to the deadball era and the game over those years were highly defensive thanks to it being the era with the least defensive restrictions since the introduction of the 3 point line). Pace and ORTG have been increasing tremendously the last few years.

Post 3 point line (removing 99-04) the current league wide ORTG is more than 3 standard deviations from the mean of 107.0. Basically if this keeps up at all the league would have a real problem.

[magicman1978]

For casual fans, this is fine but the die hard fans who have been watching for years and years and different eras, this is practically unwatchable.

That depends on how many eras you've actually watched basketball for. All that hand-check defense where teams didn't even bother to try defending until the player got at least to the foul line didn't exactly thrill me. There are still some kinks to work out but the fact that teams are actually playing like teams rather than individuals more than ever before and I like that.

Playing like teams = running PNR until you get a favorable matchup to isolate.

And with the lack of calls on moving screens, there's no longer fighting through a screen. It's an immediate switch.

[TheFinishSniper]

They need to start calling offensive fouls more, it's getting hard to defend players because you can't touch them but they can shove you with their off arm without a call.

I read that as DSJ "clutch" winning basket against Rose and Wolves. You no wrong.

[JN61]

Three teams scored over 130 points tonight. NBA has become a joke league.

The 1991 Nuggets gave up 131 points per game.

Not sure what your point is. Westhead had a gimmick team. The NBA as a league has nixed defense, much the same way the NFL was made QBs unstoppable, or when the MLB had those juiced balls.

Look at the scores this season so far.

Whole idea of these rules is to create these absurb offensive numbers to create narratives how league is so much superior skill wise than before. Then using numbers to back it out, which are results of skewed rules.

[og15]

Teams will start to slow down, they usually do, so that will at least decrease the average ppg in games, but if not, this can be like 60's basketball, except players can actually shoot. Not sure if that is a good thing or not.

[bers0003]

This whole discussion started after the Jazz scored 81 in the first half after the GSW. Well, tonight they scored 80 again but, for the whole game...Trae Young scored a bunch yesterday by shooting from the crazy distances. If that is his game plan then he is in big trouble. Sometimes it works, more often not.

[OlDirtMcBert]

Sad game these days.

[GusFring]

Modern NBA looks like a video game because the refs won't allow defense and there's guys on this forum defending this watered down crap ha. 100 fts a night, very entertaining.

[76ciology]

Nba, find a way to lower the frequency of FTs