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We all know what happened last night...

It was the Clipper's first win at home against the Warriors in 4 years (last won in Christmas of 2014), as well as their first series opening victory since the 2012 NBA Lockout - 6 years. Not one player on the Clipper roster scored more than 25 PTS - this is common among role players, guys who can put around 20 PTS at the most within 20 to 30 minutes of playing time. Yeah, Lou Williams was playing starters minutes and did have a 50-point game last year, but the makeup of the roster suggests Williams won't have high point games anymore, confirming my suspicions about the Clippers battling with balance.

Think about it: teams with Tobias Harris are 10-1 when he scores at least 30 PTS, yet more than 50% of his games have totals notching below 20 PTS - and he's a starter. Every player's career high is in the 30s and they only get to experience this at least two times in their career, and Boban Marjanovic's career high is 27 PTS. A superstar has the ability to score 30 PTS or more on a frequent basis, and superstars are always starters.

This Clippers team is full of sixth men, role players, G-Leaguers, rookies, specialists and victory cigars - players you'd rather have coming off the bench for title contending teams - and they've just beaten the top two elite teams in Milwaukee and Golden State.

This Clippers team was expected to tank for a no. 1 draft pick - but executive consultant General Advisor Jerry West saw that the superstar experiment of Lob City failed spectacularly. Under West, they've regrouped into a team devoid of big names and elite talent, but truly love playing for one another and are hungry to prove their worth in a league where you must have a superstar or a no. 1 draft pick to win anything of significance. West has secretly molded a team to Doc Rivers's liking (blasphemous, I know), but they're 8-5 because of this mentality.

What if the Clippers not only make the playoffs without an All-Star selection, but win the whole thing? No team in NBA history has ever won a championship with a roster devoid of All-Star experience (a player having made it multiple times or a player making it in the same year the title was won). Having a Sixth Man Of The Year winner leading your team is even worse. Since the award's establishment, NBA teams are 4-35 in titles won whenever a SMOY winner is on the roster. The four wins all fostered at least one All-Star: 1983 76ers, 1984 and 1986 Celtics, and 1996 Bulls.

This Clippers team is very Spursian in the sense they love playing for one another and are able to be disciplined without worrying too much about stat stuffing. They also have something worth fighting for: long time play-by-play man Ralph Lawler is retiring, and the team would love nothing more than to win one for him as a going-away present.

One more thing: please don't bring the 2004 Detroit Pistons into your discussions. Ben Wallace made the All-Star Game as a reserve in 2004, so the Pistons are clearly disqualified.

How are you defining "role player", just any player who hasn't been on the All-Star team?

We'll see in the playoffs.

og15 wrote:How are you defining "role player", just any player who hasn't been on the All-Star team?

That, and players who normally play 20 minutes or less or see little to no action at all in terms of games played (say less than 41 games), but still contributed. Like Boban's 0 second steal vs. Bucks a couple days ago.

that drew my attention too. gsw always destroyed lac with paul and griffin. maybe they werent motivated enough against a team with full of role players, eh?

baldur wrote:that drew my attention too. gsw always destroyed lac with paul and griffin. maybe they werent motivated enough against a team with full of role players, eh?

Curry being out was probably a factor, but if they weren't motivated, that's their fault, Clippers will take the win.

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Role player teams historically get burned in the playoffs

If Ben Wallace is too good for your definition of a role player, then the answer to your question is no.

The 04 Pistons was the closest we've ever come to this happening, and even they had stars. They just didn't have a superstar. No a team without stars can't win a title.

zimpy27 wrote:Role player teams historically get burned in the playoffs

The Al Horford led Atlanta Hawks were the perfect example of this. They were a solid team, but didn't have anybody that could really put pressure on the team's defense.

People talk a lot about how much match ups matter in the playoffs. Last season the Pelicans were a terrible match up for Portland. The Blazers rely completely on Damian Lillard and CJ to score points. The Pelicans had Rondo and Jrue to match up, and AD is great at guarding the pick and roll. Teams like the 60 win Hawks are in that boat against every team. Because nobody can force the defense to react, the team is left having to outwork their opponent every, single possession.

The Pistons had several things going in their favor: ridiculous defense, very deep bench, and even though they lacked a single star the Pistons had a lot of different offensive weapons (Chauncey dribble penetration, Mike James off the dribble, Corliss Williamson post up, Rasheed post up, Rip running around screens, Okur in the high post)

Role player teams have the element of surprise. IMO that’s how the Clippers have been doing so well. Teams plan for how the other teams Stars play, but they can’t plan for everyone, and when some dude (or dudes) they didn’t plan for start going off on them, it’s easy to get shook. Not sure it could last long enough to make it all the way to the finals (cause by then may be figured out), but can definitely lead to an upset or two in the first or second round.

That's how role players become stars.

If we take this literally then no. Because, if you reach finals your team will have star player or two. They might have not been star's in the beginning of the season, but if team plays well enough there will be stars in the team when finals begin. New stars are born every year. But if question is can you win with a team that didn't have stars in beginning of the season and didn't trade for one, then with today's freedom of movement it is now easier than it was year ago. But with GSW still playing? nope. Maybe Utah is nearest from today's teams. Is Gobert a star? Maybe Denver. Does Jokic count as a star? Probably both of them all ready do.

The problem is that in the playoffs, teams can play their best players more.

You can win a lot in the regular season by just having 5 good players on the court for all 48 minutes while other teams have weaker spots in their rotation. In the playoffs though thinner teams can hide their weaker links on the bench by playing their great and good players more minutes.

Wammy Giveaway wrote:and they've just beaten the top two elite teams in Milwaukee and Golden State.

Bro, as a Bucks fan I nearly cried there
Thanks

Harry Garris wrote:The 04 Pistons was the closest we've ever come to this happening, and even they had stars. They just didn't have a superstar. No a team without stars can't win a title.

The Pistons had 4 borderline to actual All Stars. Two of them have fringe HOF credentials in Ben and Sheed. They were labeled as "no superstars" because they didn't have a Shaq/Kobe line, but by modern standards they had a super team.

It's more inaccurate storytelling than anything else. That team was LOADED.

In today’s game, Superstars end games. No way A team full of roleplayers winning a chip.

I prefer players of the meandering and role-less variety. Just complete anarchy on the court.

Role player teams are great until playoffs when role players prove why they are role players. Happens every time. Teams aren't messing around in playoffs anymore.

The issue with relying on a bunch of role players to a bunch of different things is that if if just one or two of those guys get hurt or have a bad series the whole system falls apart. Like that 57 win Iguodala Denver team was awesome until Gallinari got hurt and all of a sudden it didn't have enough scoring.

It's just extremely unlikely that over the course of 4 playoff series that all 8-9 guys in your rotation are going to play well the whole time, no one will get gameplanned off the court, no one will get hurt ect.