2018-19 NBA MVP Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Prez]

First part here, poll added. Went with bballreference's MVP odds tracker for the 10 poll options, with the exception of Kyrie instead of AD now with the news that AD will miss up to 4+ weeks. Post here if you think someone not listed is your pick.

[RaptorsLife]

There’s only 2 options for me. That’s giannis abd harden

If rockets are a top 4 seed than harden win pretty. What he doing is unbelievable

Bucks will def COTY tho

[iggymcfrack]

It is amazing how Westbrook winning in 2017 has basically ended "the 50 wins or no MVP" criteria that voters have had since the 1980's.

That's the one thing i don't understand. Maybe that's also because of all the talk about the MVP. The league is not competitive, so nobody talks about "who will win the championship". Media and fans need another top topic, so they talk about the MVP.

And because it would be too boring to just include the best players from the top 3-4 teams they also put guys in the conversation that don't have the team success. For me personally, i think the MVP HAS to be from a team with a top 2 seed. Don't see any argument why it should not be like that. It was like the that since like forever.

If you want to give someone like Davis props for a good season then just put him between 3-5, but surely not top 2.

Yeah, it just weird to me how Harden would win the award if the vote were today. He has been crazy good, but we have seen scoring binges like this before (ex. Kobe in 2006, Jordan in 1987 and 1988, Rick Barry in the ABA). What he is doing isn't new. At least with Russ, he did something that hadn't been done since the days of Big O.

Maybe Giannis being young and fairly new to the stage is why he is getting overlooked. If someone like LeBron or AD led their teams to a 34-12 record and were putting up a 27/13/6 with a PER of 29 then they would be running away with the vote.

In Kobe’s big points year, he averaged 35/5/5 on .559 TS% and he still had the second most first-place votes for MVP.

This season, Harden’s been averaging 36/6/8 on .622 TS%. If Kobe had an extra 3 assists a game and was over 6% more efficient on his shooting, you can bet he would have taken the MVP over Nash.

In ‘87, Jordan’s Bulls had a losing record and only made the playoffs because the Eastern conference had 11 teams at the time. He still finished 2nd in the voting. You can bet that if Harden finishes with a losing record in the bottom third of his conference this year, he won’t win ****.

In ‘88, the Bulls went 50-32 (a record that Harden’s Rockets could easily get to this year) with Jordan averaging 35/6/6 on .603 TS% (still lesser numbers than Harden), and he was voted MVP by a healthy margin over Magic and Bird who had the best record and the best SRS in the league respectively. I doubt that one or two more regular season losses would have cost him the award.

[stilldropin20]

poll results are not legit until you add Luka Doncic. add him at let the chips fall where they may. i mean he is 3rd in total all star votes.

[baldur]

poll results are not legit until you add Luka Doncic. add him at let the chips fall where they may. i mean he is 3rd in total all star votes.

what was the last time a player from the 12th team won the mvp?

[Oscar9992]

poll results are not legit until you add Luka Doncic. add him at let the chips fall where they may. i mean he is 3rd in total all star votes.

what was the last time a player from the 12th team won the mvp?

He is just ROFLing I think.

[Mamba4Goat]

I really hope Giannis gets it. Harden is whack.

[AussieBuck]

Bucks are already 8 games ahead of Houston just past half way through the season. On the other hand Harden's going to see how close he can get his PPG to 40.

[Bergmaniac]

Giannis really should be getting more credit for being the anchor of the best defence in the league, this seems to be ignored in most MVP discussions.

[JazzUte88]

I'll vote for the guy averaging 35.7 PPG, 6 RPG, 8 APG in a tough Western Conference with CP3, Eric Gordon, and Clint Capela missing a bunch of games. As long as they make the playoffs.

[JN61]

To me it's starting to narrow to 3 player race between Giannis, Harden and George. Leonard is simply missing too many games in my opinion. When was last time MVP played <70 games? Lebron is already out and I don't think GSW players are realistic to win it at this point.

If OKC and Houston continue to play ~50% win basketball it's going to Giannis, if Houston can reach 3rd seed while Harden is putting these stats it should be his, and if OKC can stay as 3rd seed or even climb on rest of the season it should be George's. Hard to say really, to me George is best 2 way player out of this bunch and he's also only player in my opinion in top 2 in DPOY vote, while Harden puts up most impressive stats and Giannis with the best record that has been the biggest surprise. I don't think most (anyone really) had Bucks even in top 4 seed before the season, however from individual point of view Harden and George been lifting their game on past few months when Giannis has seen little drop since very hot start.

To me it's at the moment Giannis, George, Harden in order.

[rzzzzz]

Bud has done a great job scheming around Giannis. I'm not yet convinced but it looks like Brett is starting to ease up on the uptempo thing to build around Embiid. The victory over Houston was pretty convincing.

[ken6199]

One thing we need to be very careful is talking about this "drop". When player gets hot for a stretch of games, we raise the bar for him, and start to take it for granted. We become a little numbed on their performances, "oh just another 27/15 game for Giannis", "oh Harden only scored 38 tonight it looks like he is running out of steam". Dude, those numbers are still damn impressive and nowhere near any dropping.

For Giannis, his team continues to get into better rhythm and roll over opponents so it seems like he doesn't break a sweat lot of the nights compared to early season; For Harden, losing Capela for a month is another huge blow, bigger than losing CP3, which makes his assist number shrink, and his driving game a lot more tougher without the best lob threat in the league; Also for George, while his January number and efficiency is not on the same level as December, he still came out big time in close games and pulled out wins for Thunder on both sides. For any of the three, we cannot discredit them with those imaginary, and honestly quite unfair "drops", or just because they go from 200% heroic to 185% we start to feel the need to pull them off the race a little bit.

There is a lot of context to it, and unlike advanced metrics, there isn't any formula to put together and say, this guy beats another guy.

[gh123]

Harden comfortably, this Houston team with Rivers playing 35mpg would be first in East.

[Bergmaniac]

Harden comfortably, this Houston team with Rivers playing 35mpg would be first in East.

Houston are 9-8 so far against Eastern teams...

[gh123]

Harden comfortably, this Houston team with Rivers playing 35mpg would be first in East.

Houston are 9-8 so far against Eastern teams...

Doesn't matter, just have to beat Bucks and Toronto, very doable with only CP3 out.

[Triples333]

I'll vote for the guy averaging 35.7 PPG, 6 RPG, 8 APG in a tough Western Conference with CP3, Eric Gordon, and Clint Capela missing a bunch of games. As long as they make the playoffs.

They are 10-11 Without CP3, I think that is a major note of importance currently lost on many fans/media when discussing what Harden has done without him. Now without Clint as well they look downright terrible.

While Harden himself has been fantastic most nights, Giannis has the cut and dry pure MVP case:

1) MVP level box score + advanced stats
2) By far the best player on a 1 seed
3) Narrative of taking a Bucks team not expected to be HCA by most (including Vegas) to the best record in the NBA.

[RunOKC]

Harden is carrying a d-league roster every night

Gotta give him the nod for now imo. I haven't got to see as much of Giannis as I'd like to though.

[reignfire]

Giannis should win MVP. But the most impactful offseason difference in the league has been Bud.

The team built around Giannis is also very solid.

[Yank3525]

That's the one thing i don't understand. Maybe that's also because of all the talk about the MVP. The league is not competitive, so nobody talks about "who will win the championship". Media and fans need another top topic, so they talk about the MVP.

And because it would be too boring to just include the best players from the top 3-4 teams they also put guys in the conversation that don't have the team success. For me personally, i think the MVP HAS to be from a team with a top 2 seed. Don't see any argument why it should not be like that. It was like the that since like forever.

If you want to give someone like Davis props for a good season then just put him between 3-5, but surely not top 2.

Yeah, it just weird to me how Harden would win the award if the vote were today. He has been crazy good, but we have seen scoring binges like this before (ex. Kobe in 2006, Jordan in 1987 and 1988, Rick Barry in the ABA). What he is doing isn't new. At least with Russ, he did something that hadn't been done since the days of Big O.

Maybe Giannis being young and fairly new to the stage is why he is getting overlooked. If someone like LeBron or AD led their teams to a 34-12 record and were putting up a 27/13/6 with a PER of 29 then they would be running away with the vote.

In Kobe’s big points year, he averaged 35/5/5 on .559 TS% and he still had the second most first-place votes for MVP.

This season, Harden’s been averaging 36/6/8 on .622 TS%. If Kobe had an extra 3 assists a game and was over 6% more efficient on his shooting, you can bet he would have taken the MVP over Nash.

In ‘87, Jordan’s Bulls had a losing record and only made the playoffs because the Eastern conference had 11 teams at the time. He still finished 2nd in the voting. You can bet that if Harden finishes with a losing record in the bottom third of his conference this year, he won’t win ****.

In ‘88, the Bulls went 50-32 (a record that Harden’s Rockets could easily get to this year) with Jordan averaging 35/6/6 on .603 TS% (still lesser numbers than Harden), and he was voted MVP by a healthy margin over Magic and Bird who had the best record and the best SRS in the league respectively. I doubt that one or two more regular season losses would have cost him the award.

No, Kobe wouldn't have won MVP in 2006 if he were more efficient. The MVP isn't about statistics for most of the voters, it is a narrative driven award. 2006 was only a couple years after trial and the Shaq stuff, Kobe's image and relationship with the NBA media was at or near an all-time low. The main reason why he finished fourth was due to the fact that 22 voters left him completely off the ballot.

As for 88 MJ, Jordan's narrative was not just the scoring, but the dominance as a defensive player. We had never seen a perimeter player dominate like that in NBA history.