Everyone agrees that D-Wade is the #3 2Guard of all time, right?

[PizzaSteve]

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant

<edit...bit of a gap>

Jerry West

<edit...bit of a gap>

Dwayne Wade/Tracy McGrady/Ray Allen/James Harden/Clyde Drexler are all in the same group. West has slight edge but the rest are lumped together

I agree with this, though would have Wade over Harden on defense, others are close, with team success perhaps a tiebreaker.

[johanliebert]

While I understand why some people rank Wade very highly, I personally have West, Manu and Gervin ahead of Wade if I'm starting to build a franchise from scratch or if I'm looking for a #2 option to my #1 guy.

Manu lol isn’t his career average 18ppg? Was he ever the focal point of a team?

[Prokorov]

I have him at #5

MJ
Kobe
Drexler Harden
Wade

[NBAFan93]

Of course he is, just ask him ...

No I’m sure there are better 2 guards even at his prime. Heck Harden may be better than he was already.

[KingDavid]

Again, people, DEFENSE.

[LBC SoCal]

Years from now people will have this same discussion except without Harden being brought up. He is thriving in an NBA that is ideal for high volume stats. The refs are a factor too.

[Winglish]

It's important when comparing stats to remember that Jerry West and George Gervin played without a 3 point shot available.

Also, Gervin spent his first 6 seasons tearing up the ABA and did not play in the NBA until year 7.

Gervin was a deadly outside shooter. He would have averaged 30 points per game easily with a three point line available. As it was, he still averaged better numbers than Wade in scoring and rebounds.

Gervin led the NBA in scoring 4 times and has incredible win share numbers.

George Gervin has a solid argument for 4th best of all-time.

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade or Gervin to me?

Sent from my SM-G892U using RealGM mobile app

[nedleeds]

Does college count? Like it does for the hall of fame.

If it does West is a top 10 college player of all time. He was completely dominant (not Kareem, Magic, Ewing or Walton but close)

I think Jerry West is still ahead. He was the leagues dominant backcourt scorer by a wide margin for a half a decade

31.2 / 7.5 assist / 4.6 boards and a bunch of seasons like that. There's no good defensive metrics to pick at, I can't say whether he was a dominant defender of his era. It would mostly be peoples narratives to lean on there.

I'll also bring up the lack of a 3 pointer. I know it's hard to compare, but film will show West shooting very deep shots. It's not absurd to think he'd have averaged 2-3 points more.

[Laimbeer]

I have Mike, Kobe, and West as pretty clearly the top three, then there's a gap and you can debate a number of guys.

[Laimbeer]

Again, people, DEFENSE.

Mike, Kobe, and West were all better defenders, though you could use that argument in the next tier against Gervin, Harden, Iverson, etc.

[dhsilv2]

While I understand why some people rank Wade very highly, I personally have West, Manu and Gervin ahead of Wade if I'm starting to build a franchise from scratch or if I'm looking for a #2 option to my #1 guy.

Manu lol isn’t his career average 18ppg? Was he ever the focal point of a team?

Manu peaked at 19.5 points and 4.5 assists, but before you dismiss those numbers remember the spurs were scoring 95.4 points per game. Even if his assists were only for 2's, that's still make Manu responsible for 28.5 points per game or about 30% of the spurs points and did so playing 31 minutes per game so in only 64% of the minutes.

Sure there are guys who do more but he had a team with another allstar guard and a super star big man who both could score as well. He was also a top tier defensive guard. Manu feels like one of the only players ever who actually gets less credit because he had a great team around him and had insane success, he was at one point the guy with the highest winning percentage among players with a reasonable number of games played and was in the top group in terms of playoff winning percentage as well.

[dhsilv2]

Again, people, DEFENSE.

Mike, Kobe, and West were all better defenders, though you could use that argument in the next tier against Gervin, Harden, Iverson, etc.

Do you really think Kobe was a better defender than Wade? I'm iffy on him and west (who I have ahead of kobe), but man Wade was a great off ball defender, was possibly the best rim protecting guard of all time, and he was pretty good as a man defender as well.

[magnumt]

does anyone have another take?
i heard someone on espn today call him top 5 at the position and i'm like that doesn't sound right.
after mike and kobe, it's clearly d-wade.

Top 10 for sure, but IMO not Top 5.

Guys like:
Jordan
Kobe
Reggie
West
Drexler
T-Mac

Should get the nod before him. Maybe even Ray Allen, given his extremely good threat as a Perimeter shooter and it's position. Wade's one main weakness was Perimeter shooting. Which is no bueno for a SHOOTING Guard.

--Mags

[dhsilv2]

does anyone have another take?
i heard someone on espn today call him top 5 at the position and i'm like that doesn't sound right.
after mike and kobe, it's clearly d-wade.

Top 10 for sure, but IMO not Top 5.

Guys like:
Jordan
Kobe
Reggie
West
Drexler
T-Mac

Should get the nod before him. Maybe even Ray Allen, given his extremely good threat as a Perimeter shooter and it's position. Wade's one main weakness was Perimeter shooting. Which is no bueno for a SHOOTING Guard.

--Mags

I can see a case for Reggie, longevity. I can see a case for TMAC, peak. I can't see how a list could have both being better than Wade. Could you shed some light on how you're ranking players?

[Metallikid]

It entirely depends on whether or not Stephen Curry, at the end of his career, will be viewed as a shooting guard. Because that's what he is. He plays his minutes at PG only because his teammates have been Monta Ellis and Klay Thompson. He's clearly more of a shooter than a playmaker, and his assist average has never been at that true point guard level.

If you count Steph as a shooting guard which I do, in 10 years the list will look something like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Stephen Curry
4. Jerry West
5. Dwyane Wade
6. Clyde Drexler
7. James Harden
8. Vince Carter
9. Allen Iverson
10. Ray Allen
11. Reggie Miller

[Steelo Green]

It entirely depends on whether or not Stephen Curry, at the end of his career, will be viewed as a shooting guard. Because that's what he is. He plays his minutes at PG only because his teammates have been Monta Ellis and Klay Thompson. He's clearly more of a shooter than a playmaker, and his assist average has never been at that true point guard level.

If you count Steph as a shooting guard which I do, in 10 years the list will look something like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Stephen Curry
4. Jerry West
5. Dwyane Wade
6. Clyde Drexler
7. James Harden
8. Vince Carter
9. Allen Iverson
10. Ray Allen
11. Reggie Miller

Vince is not better than AI or Ray Allen.

And T-Mac if seen as a 2 guard is also better than Vince.

[Metallikid]

It entirely depends on whether or not Stephen Curry, at the end of his career, will be viewed as a shooting guard. Because that's what he is. He plays his minutes at PG only because his teammates have been Monta Ellis and Klay Thompson. He's clearly more of a shooter than a playmaker, and his assist average has never been at that true point guard level.

If you count Steph as a shooting guard which I do, in 10 years the list will look something like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Stephen Curry
4. Jerry West
5. Dwyane Wade
6. Clyde Drexler
7. James Harden
8. Vince Carter
9. Allen Iverson
10. Ray Allen
11. Reggie Miller

Vince is not better than AI or Ray Allen.

And T-Mac if seen as a 2 guard is also better than Vince.

T-Mac deserves nothing he shouldn't even be in the Hall of Fame. He never got passed the second round (Spurs don't count) and had a short prime wracked with injuries.

Vince had a bigger impact on the game than those three. He's instrumental in the wave of Canadian basketball talent that is in the league now. He's the greatest dunker in NBA history. His longevity and dedication to the game is remarkable - he's going to be the last player still playing from the 90's - so his career stats are way up there too. AI played 42 mpg in his prime, so his stats are inflated. He fell off hard and the back-end of his career was filled with drama. If anything I have Iverson too high, but he got his **** team to the Finals so he gets points for that. Reggie never had close to as high a peak as Vince did. Ray is quite close, but the Canadian impact is the deciding factor. It was hard deciding 7-11 and it's arguable. I think the top 6 are pretty locked up though.

[Steelo Green]

It entirely depends on whether or not Stephen Curry, at the end of his career, will be viewed as a shooting guard. Because that's what he is. He plays his minutes at PG only because his teammates have been Monta Ellis and Klay Thompson. He's clearly more of a shooter than a playmaker, and his assist average has never been at that true point guard level.

If you count Steph as a shooting guard which I do, in 10 years the list will look something like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Stephen Curry
4. Jerry West
5. Dwyane Wade
6. Clyde Drexler
7. James Harden
8. Vince Carter
9. Allen Iverson
10. Ray Allen
11. Reggie Miller

Vince is not better than AI or Ray Allen.

And T-Mac if seen as a 2 guard is also better than Vince.

T-Mac deserves nothing he shouldn't even be in the Hall of Fame. He never got passed the second round (Spurs don't count) and had a short prime wracked with injuries.

Vince had a bigger impact on the game than those three. He's instrumental in the wave of Canadian basketball talent that is in the league now. He's the greatest dunker in NBA history. His longevity and dedication to the game is remarkable - he's going to be the last player still playing from the 90's - so his career stats are way up there too. AI played 42 mpg in his prime, so his stats are inflated. He fell off hard and the back-end of his career was filled with drama. If anything I have Iverson too high, but he got his **** team to the Finals so he gets points for that. Reggie never had close to as high a peak as Vince did. Ray is quite close, but the Canadian impact is the deciding factor. It was hard deciding 7-11 and it's arguable. I think the top 6 are pretty locked up though.

I really hate the greatest dunker argument for Vince. What does that matter?

Vince wasn't a big PO performer himself. He had moments sure, but T-Mac had a lot of odd situations. A terrible Orlando team and then Houston when he finally had a team he got hurt.

[Knicksfan20]

Top 2

Wade was a better passer, a better defender, and had a much higher peak. The only edges Kobe has are longevity and better teammates.

wrong

[TheGOATRises007]

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant










.....huge huge gap.....





Jerry West
Dwayne Wade/Tracy McGrady/Ray Allen/James Harden/Clyde Drexler are all in the same group. West has slight edge but the rest are lumped together

That is blasphemous.

There is no HUGE HUGE gap going from Kobe to West/Wade.

There's a bigger gap from MJ to Kobe than from Kobe to West/Wade.