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70sFan wrote:

Sulico wrote:

70sFan wrote:
I am also Spurs fan. Even though Manu played great in the finals (he could have won FMVP), overall he wasn't close to Duncan for the whole season. Besides, if you really have watched 2005 finals, you would know that Duncan was guarded like peak Shaq by Pistons - they doubled and tripled him tons of times even with Wallaces guarding him.

I don’t see anything "laughable" in having Nash over Manu. He was well deserved MVP in RS and played great in playoffs.

In RS Tim and Manu had virtually same impact stats with one exception, Manu dwarfed Tim in TS% .609 to .540. It wasn't big deal back then, it is now though as we understand the meaning of it better.
Then in playoffs things changed, Manu demolished Tim in TS% .652 (RS Steph Curry numbers) to .526 (below average in todays league), WS/48 .260 to .191, BPM 8.7 to 4.1, and most importantly On/Off stats +19.9 for Manu and -5.3 for Tim. 25.2 points difference in On/Off stats is huge difference, especially considering they shared the floor most of the time.
Same goes for every other player, except for RS KG, but he didn't play in playoffs, so we can't really consider him best overall player that year.
Manu impact numbers that season were out of this world, especially in the playoffs when it mattered the most. And it really showed when watching the game, as every time he stepped on the floor it seemed like Spurs were destined for a healthy run.

Where have you found that Duncan was negative in 2005 playoffs?

70sFan wrote:

John Murdoch wrote:

postaboy84 wrote:MJ, Kobe, West, and then a distant 4th Wade. Why? Wade played for the Heat. No pressure, no market, no brand, no fanbase, no media, and most of all played in a weak conference. Wade didn’t face what Kobe went though.


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I respect history but at the same time i trust my eyes , Jerry West would be Joe Ingles in todays league

Then nobody should trust your eyes. They are nothing alike and West was far more talented player for anyone who has minimal knowledge about basketball.

ElodyTamTam wrote:Every "is player X the most Y player ever?" thread on RealGM, finalists roster composition:
1) MJ [at least when talking about guards]
2) 99% players from last 15/20 years
3) one or two dudes from the 50s just for shameless tokening purposes

iggymcfrack wrote:

70sFan wrote:

John Murdoch wrote:
I respect history but at the same time i trust my eyes , Jerry West would be Joe Ingles in todays league

Then nobody should trust your eyes. They are nothing alike and West was far more talented player for anyone who has minimal knowledge about basketball.

Eye test seems like a really, really strange thing to hold against Jerry West. Watching the old guys, I often feel like they’re miles behind the current crop, but Jerry West is the one guy that always looks like he’d fit in just like a glove in the modern game. He’s an elite creator, he makes difficult shots, he steps up in the clutch, he really stands out on tape as the one guy who looks like he came from a completely different league than any of his contemporaries. Like if there’s one guy from before the merger that this criticism doesn’t work on, it would be West IMO. Even in comparison to someone like Oscar, I feel like he looks a lot more like someone who could star in the modern game just watching him play.

dhsilv2 wrote:not to mention the vast majority of players have played in the last 15-20 years

ElodyTamTam wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:not to mention the vast majority of players have played in the last 15-20 years

?

Sulico wrote:Name me a player beter than Manu in 2004-2005 and I'll tell you why you wrong, simple as that.

He begun that season winning olympics, defeating USA team, and I want to remind to you that Wade was part of that team. In semifinals against Argentina he scored 2 points, had 3 turnovers. Manu scored 29.

Then he finished RS 3rd in BPM behind Kevin Garnett and Lebron James, and then playoffs 2nd in BPM behind Paul Pierce. Won a championship.

He was best player of that season for damn sure, I don't even know what argument can anybody have against that.

MrSparkle wrote:Ray Allen and Reggie Miller deserve a nod too. I mean, Wade had about 3 incredible years as a #1 albeit a lot of injury issues afterwards and “outside help” for most his career.

Also the Dallas 06 refereeing always really bothered me. Wade really benefitted from the whistle. In the current 3P-mad NBA, curious to see if younger Ray and Reggie would be game-changers as #1-2 options.

Soulcatcher33 wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:Ray Allen and Reggie Miller deserve a nod too. I mean, Wade had about 3 incredible years as a #1 albeit a lot of injury issues afterwards and “outside help” for most his career.

Also the Dallas 06 refereeing always really bothered me. Wade really benefitted from the whistle. In the current 3P-mad NBA, curious to see if younger Ray and Reggie would be game-changers as #1-2 options.

Not really. Ray nor Reggie ever had close to the kind of impact a prime Wade had. He's on a different tier than them completely.

Colbinii wrote:

Soulcatcher33 wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:Ray Allen and Reggie Miller deserve a nod too. I mean, Wade had about 3 incredible years as a #1 albeit a lot of injury issues afterwards and “outside help” for most his career.

Also the Dallas 06 refereeing always really bothered me. Wade really benefitted from the whistle. In the current 3P-mad NBA, curious to see if younger Ray and Reggie would be game-changers as #1-2 options.

Not really. Ray nor Reggie ever had close to the kind of impact a prime Wade had. He's on a different tier than them completely.

Yup.

Wade could have been the best player on a championship team from 2006 - 2011; 6 seasons. Allen and Miller were likely never going to be the best player on a championship team [unless an extremely deep team like the 90s Pacers, in a weak era mind you] and Allen wasn't close to that level.

Wade had enough longevity to boost him into the top 25 for me while Allen and Miller simply lack the top end peak to be considered top 25.



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