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Devin Booker is #2 masquerading as a number 1. Thing with Booker is too focused on scoring, and it destroys the rest of his game. He doesn't get back on transition, leaks out alot and gambles. He also ball watches alot.
But here's the thing, PHX has very little offensive talent outside of Booker and Ayton. So Booker has to score and handle alot. Booker just needs time and talent, if Booker was in Milwaukee or Denver he would be a top 20 impact player. Booker hopefully will mature and realize offense isn't everything and improve to a below average defender, while hopefully Phx gets him a Batman to his Robin.

bondom34 wrote:

Crives wrote:

bondom34 wrote:If defense counts plenty. Id still rather JJJ over him and maybe Bagley. I don't remember the last contender built around two defenders that poor

Did you watch Ayton guard Giannis and Lebron a few weeks ago?

I've seen Harden have good defensive games too. There's a reason the Suns are so poor defensively and Ayton's a big part of it.

But Ayton is also a rookie. How often do rookie centers even start on competitive teams in this league? If Ayton can guard Lebron/Giannis, that has to be an indicator that he has potential to be a good defender after he gets some experience.

Also

?s=21

Crives wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

Crives wrote:
Did you watch Ayton guard Giannis and Lebron a few weeks ago?

I've seen Harden have good defensive games too. There's a reason the Suns are so poor defensively and Ayton's a big part of it.

But Ayton is also a rookie. How often do rookie centers even start on competitive teams in this league? If Ayton can guard Lebron/Giannis, that has to be an indicator that he has potential to be a good defender after he gets some experience.

Also

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I realize he's a rookie. I'd need to see it longer than a few games when he was bad for a while, and his scouting report coming into the NBA was that he had a poor motor on defense and was bad. Highlights or not, the Suns have been terrible on defense and until he shows more I don't think he's that guy. Could a good 2nd/3rd guy but not a big I'd feel great building around until he's above average overall.

bondom34 wrote:

Crives wrote:

bondom34 wrote:I've seen Harden have good defensive games too. There's a reason the Suns are so poor defensively and Ayton's a big part of it.

But Ayton is also a rookie. How often do rookie centers even start on competitive teams in this league? If Ayton can guard Lebron/Giannis, that has to be an indicator that he has potential to be a good defender after he gets some experience.

Also

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I realize he's a rookie. I'd need to see it longer than a few games when he was bad for a while, and his scouting report coming into the NBA was that he had a poor motor on defense and was bad. Highlights or not, the Suns have been terrible on defense and until he shows more I don't think he's that guy. Could a good 2nd/3rd guy but not a big I'd feel great building around until he's above average overall.

Also, aside but I don't love tracking stats and Sidery's are off

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=11%2F01%2F2018&PlayerPosition=C&sort=NORMAL_FG_PCT&dir=-1

He's at 48.7%. Tied with Kanter

bondom34 wrote:

Crives wrote:

bondom34 wrote:I've seen Harden have good defensive games too. There's a reason the Suns are so poor defensively and Ayton's a big part of it.

But Ayton is also a rookie. How often do rookie centers even start on competitive teams in this league? If Ayton can guard Lebron/Giannis, that has to be an indicator that he has potential to be a good defender after he gets some experience.

Also

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I realize he's a rookie. I'd need to see it longer than a few games when he was bad for a while, and his scouting report coming into the NBA was that he had a poor motor on defense and was bad. Highlights or not, the Suns have been terrible on defense and until he shows more I don't think he's that guy. Could a good 2nd/3rd guy but not a big I'd feel great building around until he's above average overall.

But how many centers are above average on good teams as rookies? Don’t you agree that historically centers take time to develop? Didn’t Gobert spend his first season in the g league and now he is DPOY? I think it’s unfair to say Ayton doesn’t have a good shot at being “that guy” based on what we have seen. He definitely has the physical tools and shown he is capable of defending some of the best super wings in the league as a rookie center. The tweet data is post Nov, that’s 5 months of his rookie season.

48 points on 65% and 11 assists.
What a pathetic statspadder. Instead of doing anything to help his team win he is only interested in his box score.

bondom34 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

Crives wrote:
But Ayton is also a rookie. How often do rookie centers even start on competitive teams in this league? If Ayton can guard Lebron/Giannis, that has to be an indicator that he has potential to be a good defender after he gets some experience.

Also

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I realize he's a rookie. I'd need to see it longer than a few games when he was bad for a while, and his scouting report coming into the NBA was that he had a poor motor on defense and was bad. Highlights or not, the Suns have been terrible on defense and until he shows more I don't think he's that guy. Could a good 2nd/3rd guy but not a big I'd feel great building around until he's above average overall.

Also, aside but I don't love tracking stats and Sidery's are off

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=11%2F01%2F2018&PlayerPosition=C&sort=NORMAL_FG_PCT&dir=-1

He's at 48.7%. Tied with Kanter

That has Gobert at 49%.

I remember watching Kobe play with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He didnt get this same treatment. If he scored 50 and loss nobody cared and all we beard about is how he should have gotten Kwame more engaged etc.

Book does nothing but lose. If you're really a great player, you can get 35 wins with NBA talent.

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sikma42 wrote:I remember watching Kobe play with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He didnt get this same treatment. If he scored 50 and loss nobody cared and all we beard about is how he should have gotten Kwame more engaged etc.

Book does nothing but lose. If you're really a great player, you can get 35 wins with NBA talent.

Outside of Booker the Suns don't have NBA talent.
Lately the Suns have been monumentally better when Booker is playing than when Booker is on the bench.
It would be a horrific mistake if the Suns dumped Booker. Everyone else should be traded first.

So 20 wins was out of the question? As long as people dont pretend Booker is a great player it's cool. He is a very good player playing pick up ball and scoring points in meaningless games.

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My biggest issue with Booker is his 70 point game, how he celebrated it when his team lost by 20 and it was never close.
If this is not a red flag I don't know what is.

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laika wrote:

sikma42 wrote:I remember watching Kobe play with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He didnt get this same treatment. If he scored 50 and loss nobody cared and all we beard about is how he should have gotten Kwame more engaged etc.

Book does nothing but lose. If you're really a great player, you can get 35 wins with NBA talent.

Outside of Booker the Suns don't have NBA talent.
Lately the Suns have been monumentally better when Booker is playing than when Booker is on the bench.
It would be a horrific mistake if the Suns dumped Booker. Everyone else should be traded first.

So the number 1 pick isn't NBA talent? Scroll up and you'll see a Sun's fan complimenting Ayton's defense.

Mikal Bridges isn't NBA talent either?


I guess it's unrealistic to expect a player who can score 50 to get his team to 20 wins on the season, seems to be asking too much.

sikma42 wrote:I remember watching Kobe play with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He didnt get this same treatment. If he scored 50 and loss nobody cared and all we beard about is how he should have gotten Kwame more engaged etc.

Book does nothing but lose. If you're really a great player, you can get 35 wins with NBA talent.

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Smush Parker and Kwame Brown would be upgrades at the PG and PF spots compared to what the Suns have been trotting out there these past 2 years.

And they went to the playoffs in a tough west and took the Suns to 7 games.

Booker is not even getting 20 wins.

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Ryoga Hibiki wrote:My biggest issue with Booker is his 70 point game, how he celebrated it when his team lost by 20 and it was never close.
If this is not a red flag I don't know what is.

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1. He lost by 10, on the road, to the #1 seed in the East, with a "rookie Ulis - rookie Derrick Jones - rookie Chriss - Len" starting lineup.

2. It's funny that Booker's haters bring up that 70-point game way more often than his fans.

sikma42 wrote:I remember watching Kobe play with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He didnt get this same treatment. If he scored 50 and loss nobody cared and all we beard about is how he should have gotten Kwame more engaged etc.

Book does nothing but lose. If you're really a great player, you can get 35 wins with NBA talent.

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Kobe fans have ad nauseam been claiming that Kobe got robbed of the MVP award that year - specifically because he had a bad supporting cast. This is kind of a weird example to give because it actually contradicts your point.

When Ayton went down this past game, the Suns were playing without their 2nd, 3rd,4th, and 6th, leading scorers - with their 5th leading scorer (Josh Jackson) missing the past 3 games. His supporting cast at the moment is absolutely non existent.

Also, for the record we're comparing a prime 28 year old Kobe to a 22 year old Booker here.

I cant follow the majority of your post.

Injuries happen but they were present for huge parts of the season. Certainly enough to win 20 games if he is a great player.

Mr Puddles wrote:

sikma42 wrote:I remember watching Kobe play with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He didnt get this same treatment. If he scored 50 and loss nobody cared and all we beard about is how he should have gotten Kwame more engaged etc.

Book does nothing but lose. If you're really a great player, you can get 35 wins with NBA talent.

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Kobe fans have ad nauseam been claiming that Kobe got robbed of the MVP award that year - specifically because he had a bad supporting cast. This is kind of a weird example to give because it actually contradicts your point.

When Ayton went down this past game, the Suns were playing without their 2nd, 3rd,4th, and 6th, leading scorers - with their 5th leading scorer (Josh Jackson) missing the past 3 games. His supporting cast at the moment is absolutely non existent.

Also, for the record we're comparing a prime 28 year old Kobe to a 22 year old Booker here.

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sikma42 wrote:I cant follow the majority of your post.

Injuries happen but they were present for huge parts of the season. Certainly enough to win 20 games if he is a great player.

Mr Puddles wrote:

sikma42 wrote:I remember watching Kobe play with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He didnt get this same treatment. If he scored 50 and loss nobody cared and all we beard about is how he should have gotten Kwame more engaged etc.

Book does nothing but lose. If you're really a great player, you can get 35 wins with NBA talent.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Kobe fans have ad nauseam been claiming that Kobe got robbed of the MVP award that year - specifically because he had a bad supporting cast. This is kind of a weird example to give because it actually contradicts your point.

When Ayton went down this past game, the Suns were playing without their 2nd, 3rd,4th, and 6th, leading scorers - with their 5th leading scorer (Josh Jackson) missing the past 3 games. His supporting cast at the moment is absolutely non existent.

Also, for the record we're comparing a prime 28 year old Kobe to a 22 year old Booker here.

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You realize that you’re comparing prime Kobe to Devin Booker, right? Literally nobody is claiming that he’s at that level, so you’re fighting against straws. If your argument is that you have to be as good as prime Kobe for not being considered as a stat-padder in this league, then that’s B.S.

My argument is that he is getting a pass. Kobe comes up because he was in the similar position but was expected to win and lead.

Also, nobody expects him to ever be Kobe. But he is expected to win some games. Right now what the suns do isnt even basketball, its pick up at the park. Everything he does in this context is basically meaningless.



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Just give him to LeBron and he becomes a household name on a title contender a la Kyrie