Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's

Moderators: Prez, ken6199, Dirk, Domejandro, zimpy27, bwgood77, BombsquadSammy, Yuri Vaultin, PockyCandy

Best Shooting Guard of this group?

C.J McCollum
21
14%
Klay Thompson
62
41%
Bradley Beal
29
19%
Victor Oladipo
38
25%
DeMar DeRozan
3
2%
 
Total votes: 153

LivingLegend
Analyst
Posts: 3,636
And1: 4,473
Joined: Jul 30, 2015

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#21 » by LivingLegend » Tue May 14, 2019 5:41 am

The fact that Klay Thompson can be a complete no-show and then provide a great game 1 of every 3 games demotes him for me.

I would take Dipo/Beal over Thompson every day based on consistency alone. CJ is right there with them, there is no wrong answer.

Thompsons defense is also WILDLY overrated.
Roy The Natural
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,863
And1: 2,506
Joined: Nov 07, 2014

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#22 » by Roy The Natural » Tue May 14, 2019 5:42 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
baller16 wrote:Beal is getting underrated here. He's a decent defender and is 10x the shot creator and passer compared to Klay.

Beal
Oladipo
Klay
CJ
Derozan

Think I agree with the last 3 here but I'd still take Dipo when he's healthy. I could see a case for Beal as well though (and if Butler counts he's ahead of them all). Dipo's defense and how well his teams have done is changing it for me though. Beal was awesome this year.

Agree Beal is getting underrated from some though.


Klay is tough to compare to because he's only an off ball player. But he's without a doubt the best off ball shooting guard in the league. None of the other guys, if they were asked to play the way Klay plays, would have the same impact Klay has doing what he does.


Works both way though doesn't it? If you asked Klay to do what guys like CJ and Oladipo do, he wouldn't have near the impact that they do.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 60,692
And1: 42,138
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#23 » by bondom34 » Tue May 14, 2019 5:43 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
baller16 wrote:Beal is getting underrated here. He's a decent defender and is 10x the shot creator and passer compared to Klay.

Beal
Oladipo
Klay
CJ
Derozan

Think I agree with the last 3 here but I'd still take Dipo when he's healthy. I could see a case for Beal as well though (and if Butler counts he's ahead of them all). Dipo's defense and how well his teams have done is changing it for me though. Beal was awesome this year.

Agree Beal is getting underrated from some though.


Klay is tough to compare to because he's only an off ball player. But he's without a doubt the best off ball shooting guard in the league. None of the other guys, if they were asked to play the way Klay plays, would have the same impact Klay has doing what he does.

Agree there, but he's also at an advantage in a tertiary role on offense. Dipo is a better defender IMO and on offense has a larger load. He couldn't do what Klay does, but Klay couldn't do what he does.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 30,626
And1: 18,932
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#24 » by E-Balla » Tue May 14, 2019 5:47 am

Oladipo isn't in that tier he's above it.

CJ is probably right under Klay in this tier. Middleton too if you included him like you should've. I'd rank em:

Dipo

Beal
Klay
Middleton
CJ

Demar

And I'm very high on CJ too. Just higher on those other 3 in his tier because they're more versatile on great teams. CJ is what he is. A guy that can score 1 on 1 at a very good rate. Not much else there.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
User avatar
Prez
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 21,088
And1: 29,155
Joined: Jan 26, 2015
 

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#25 » by Prez » Tue May 14, 2019 5:49 am

Oladipo at full strength I'd have a tier above all these dudes. Last year's Oladipo is noticeably better than all of them imo.
thinkingwarriors
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,983
And1: 3,197
Joined: May 15, 2006
Location: On the road...
     

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#26 » by thinkingwarriors » Tue May 14, 2019 5:51 am

Roy The Natural wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Think I agree with the last 3 here but I'd still take Dipo when he's healthy. I could see a case for Beal as well though (and if Butler counts he's ahead of them all). Dipo's defense and how well his teams have done is changing it for me though. Beal was awesome this year.

Agree Beal is getting underrated from some though.


Klay is tough to compare to because he's only an off ball player. But he's without a doubt the best off ball shooting guard in the league. None of the other guys, if they were asked to play the way Klay plays, would have the same impact Klay has doing what he does.


Works both way though doesn't it? If you asked Klay to do what guys like CJ and Oladipo do, he wouldn't have near the impact that they do.


I agree which is why my main point is that it's tough to compare Klay to these other guys.

All the mentioned guys are the primary offensive engines for their team while Klay is a dedicated finisher.

The other exception is CJ but I notice that CJ and Dame rarely have great games together. They both excel at getting their own shot and so they end up taking turns rather than creating for each other.

This past season Klay shot 41% on catch and shoot 3s which represented a whopping 35% of his shot attempts. I wouldn't know how to quantify it but I'm wondering which of the other players has a style of scoring that is as effective as Klays specialization?
Bob Meyers, June 7, 2018: "“It’s not in my job description to please NBA fans. It’s to win, end of story. I don’t need to be entertained, I just need to win. That’s all it is. That’s all I was hired to do. Win.”
User avatar
Mister Ze
RealGM
Posts: 11,536
And1: 20,013
Joined: Jul 01, 2011
 

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#27 » by Mister Ze » Tue May 14, 2019 6:05 am

Harden
Oladipo
Butler
Klay
McCollum
Derozan

Problem with Klay is that he could potentially be number 1 but it’s hard to speculate how good he’d be as a number one option for an entire season.
Sulico
Pro Prospect
Posts: 971
And1: 804
Joined: Jun 16, 2011

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#28 » by Sulico » Tue May 14, 2019 6:12 am

RCM88x wrote:Dipo


Beal
CJ/Klay (different players so it's hard to rank one higher)


DeRozan


Image
User avatar
monopoman
General Manager
Posts: 8,095
And1: 2,986
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
     

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#29 » by monopoman » Tue May 14, 2019 6:13 am

E-Balla wrote:Oladipo isn't in that tier he's above it.

CJ is probably right under Klay in this tier. Middleton too if you included him like you should've. I'd rank em:

Dipo

Beal
Klay
Middleton
CJ

Demar

And I'm very high on CJ too. Just higher on those other 3 in his tier because they're more versatile on great teams. CJ is what he is. A guy that can score 1 on 1 at a very good rate. Not much else there.

This playoff run I have seen CJ make some incredible defensive plays, now he is not a great defender by any measure overall, but he had CLUTCH plays that led to wins in more than one games on the defensive side of the ball. He had a chase down block in game 7 or 6 that was leading to a 2 on 1 fast break, he forced a turnover in like game 3 or something by defending the guy and knocking it off his hand.

Most Blazer fans were pretty down on CJ throughout the season but this playoff run made me a believer 100% CJ is better than most of us ever thought. When his shot is not falling he definitely does not provide a ton of other things, but even his passing has improved he is getting smarter on that end imitating Lillard.
User avatar
monopoman
General Manager
Posts: 8,095
And1: 2,986
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
     

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#30 » by monopoman » Tue May 14, 2019 6:16 am

thinkingwarriors wrote:
Roy The Natural wrote:
thinkingwarriors wrote:
Klay is tough to compare to because he's only an off ball player. But he's without a doubt the best off ball shooting guard in the league. None of the other guys, if they were asked to play the way Klay plays, would have the same impact Klay has doing what he does.


Works both way though doesn't it? If you asked Klay to do what guys like CJ and Oladipo do, he wouldn't have near the impact that they do.


I agree which is why my main point is that it's tough to compare Klay to these other guys.

All the mentioned guys are the primary offensive engines for their team while Klay is a dedicated finisher.

The other exception is CJ but I notice that CJ and Dame rarely have great games together. They both excel at getting their own shot and so they end up taking turns rather than creating for each other.

This past season Klay shot 41% on catch and shoot 3s which represented a whopping 35% of his shot attempts. I wouldn't know how to quantify it but I'm wondering which of the other players has a style of scoring that is as effective as Klays specialization?

I think this is more that Portland feeds the hot hand, so when Lillard is struggling to score he will still take some shots but CJ will get more of them. When the situation reverses Lillard is taking more shots than CJ, when both are scoring like it's nothing then they are usually blowing the opponent out.

You also have to factor in defensive effort some teams are busting their ass to take Lillard out of the game and that means CJ has weaker defenders on him and will score more likely.
perempe20
Rookie
Posts: 1,015
And1: 573
Joined: Aug 20, 2015
 

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#31 » by perempe20 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:17 am

after G7 CJ is a close 2nd after Klay.
Crives
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,857
And1: 2,520
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
 

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#32 » by Crives » Tue May 14, 2019 6:31 am

Book will be above them all when the suns start winning. Fingers crossed tomorrow
User avatar
Black Jack
Veteran
Posts: 2,945
And1: 3,871
Joined: Jan 24, 2013
Location: A long way from Starbucks homey
     

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#33 » by Black Jack » Tue May 14, 2019 6:55 am

A contender would take Klay, he has defense and him sitting there on offense without the ball has to be game planned for. All those other guys are ball dominant types.

A bad team might prefer Beal/CJ/Dipo because they score more as ball dominant (Beal less so?)

Personally I take the guy who enables your team to win rings while meshing with ball dominant types. That would be Klay.
Thank you, KD

this my word: viewtopic.php?p=50106699#p50106699
Gatorade Sax
Freshman
Posts: 92
And1: 78
Joined: Mar 17, 2018

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#34 » by Gatorade Sax » Tue May 14, 2019 7:32 am

Not too long ago I had a swarm of Portland fans swear black and blue that Nurk was their 2nd best player, due to “insert niche RS stats”. Lol give me a break, CJ carried your asses out of that series.
User avatar
monopoman
General Manager
Posts: 8,095
And1: 2,986
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
     

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#35 » by monopoman » Tue May 14, 2019 7:38 am

Gatorade Sax wrote:Not too long ago I had a swarm of Portland fans swear black and blue that Nurk was their 2nd best player, due to “insert niche RS stats”. Lol give me a break, CJ carried your asses out of that series.

Pretty hard for Nurkic to prove how good he is being injured. LOL, I have no clue what this is about, this is like if LBJ sat an entire playoff series and someone else on the team helped them win the series and you say "Damn I thought Laker fans swore up and down LBJ was the best player but "insert player x" carried your ass."
SF_Warriors
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,067
And1: 2,383
Joined: Jul 12, 2012

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#36 » by SF_Warriors » Tue May 14, 2019 7:39 am

Absolutely no way he is on beals level or last season dipo for that matter. Imo, he can match or exceed klays impact and I like him more than derozan.

Definitely got all star level offensive talent, that is indisputable. Also think he can play a solid point guard with the right team or system (denver for example), or really for most nba teams actually.
User avatar
SalmonsSuperfan
Junior
Posts: 292
And1: 280
Joined: Feb 14, 2019
 

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#37 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Tue May 14, 2019 7:42 am

Beal is better than all of these players, but the Wizards are terrible so nobody cares. Kinda surprised how slept on he is.
when i shoot my shot that **** wetty like i'm cheick [diallo]
Gatorade Sax
Freshman
Posts: 92
And1: 78
Joined: Mar 17, 2018

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#38 » by Gatorade Sax » Tue May 14, 2019 7:43 am

monopoman wrote:
Gatorade Sax wrote:Not too long ago I had a swarm of Portland fans swear black and blue that Nurk was their 2nd best player, due to “insert niche RS stats”. Lol give me a break, CJ carried your asses out of that series.

Pretty hard for Nurkic to prove how good he is being injured. LOL, I have no clue what this is about, this is like if LBJ sat an entire playoff series and someone else on the team helped them win the series and you say "Damn I thought Laker fans swore up and down LBJ was the best player but "insert player x" carried your ass."


The threads about CJ looking like an upper echelon SG, and I referred to his most recent showings in game 6 and a road game 7 to steal the series to approve this statement. Obviously Nurk can’t prove anything while he’s injured, but CJ just proved his worth ten times over. Do Portland fans still think he is a less significant piece?
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 30,626
And1: 18,932
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#39 » by E-Balla » Tue May 14, 2019 7:46 am

monopoman wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Oladipo isn't in that tier he's above it.

CJ is probably right under Klay in this tier. Middleton too if you included him like you should've. I'd rank em:

Dipo

Beal
Klay
Middleton
CJ

Demar

And I'm very high on CJ too. Just higher on those other 3 in his tier because they're more versatile on great teams. CJ is what he is. A guy that can score 1 on 1 at a very good rate. Not much else there.

This playoff run I have seen CJ make some incredible defensive plays, now he is not a great defender by any measure overall, but he had CLUTCH plays that led to wins in more than one games on the defensive side of the ball. He had a chase down block in game 7 or 6 that was leading to a 2 on 1 fast break, he forced a turnover in like game 3 or something by defending the guy and knocking it off his hand.

Most Blazer fans were pretty down on CJ throughout the season but this playoff run made me a believer 100% CJ is better than most of us ever thought. When his shot is not falling he definitely does not provide a ton of other things, but even his passing has improved he is getting smarter on that end imitating Lillard.

It was game 7 and you're preaching to the choir. The PC board knows CJ has been my 2nd favorite player in the league next to Kemba for years now and I've made plenty of threads on him. My issues with him is that he can't finish inside and isn't a passer at all. If he could finish and pass he'd be a perennial all star.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 30,626
And1: 18,932
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: Been saying this for a while now: C.J McCollum is in the same upper tier of SG's 

Post#40 » by E-Balla » Tue May 14, 2019 7:53 am

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:Beal is better than all of these players, but the Wizards are terrible so nobody cares. Kinda surprised how slept on he is.

In the last 3 years CJ has averaged 22/4/3 on 56 TS%. Beal 23/4/5 on 58 TS%. In the playoffs CJ has averaged 25/5/3 on 55 TS% in the last 3 years. Beal has averaged 24/3/3 on 57 TS% in the playoffs the last 3 seasons.

Middleton and Klay included these guys are all extremely close in their level of play. Dipo is a level above them closer to Kyrie and Dame.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King

Return to The General Board