If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD?

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What package does NO take over the others?

Knicks
85
28%
Lakers
94
31%
Celtics
128
42%
 
Total votes: 307

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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#161 » by D3ko » Wed May 15, 2019 5:03 pm

For me the best deal will be LAKERS ( Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, and pick 4) if they want to put everything on the table, too much for AD in my opinion, if i were the lakers i wouldnt throw more than 3 of those assets. AD is a free agent after this season

For NOLA
I will do that everyone is expecting ,get as many assets as possible, im going to play a bit:

Trade AD to Lakers (lonzo,Ingram, pick 4) Boston (tatum, brown )

Trade pick 4 for Atlanta pick 8 & 10 or 8 ,35,41)( Boston 14 & 20 ,51)( Brooklyn 17 , 27,31)

Trade Holiday to MINNY (lottery pick+Okobo+ Saric) DENVER (Beasley + Lyles/Hernangomez+ 2º round picks) BOSTON (Smart+mid 1º round pick)UTAH (Allen,Favors+1º round pick)(someone from PHO, i dont see any movable assets there

Nola loses
AD,
Jrue

Nola gets:
Lonzo
Ingram
Pick 8 :BOL BOL
pick 31 : Carsen Edwards
pick 41 :Neemias Queta
Beasley
Hernangomez
2º round pick from Denver next year



Lonzo, Clark,Edwards
Beasley, Moore
Ingram, Hernangomez, Miller
Zion,Diallo, redshirt BOL BOL
VET 2 years deal C(Robin Lopez) Okafor,Queta
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#162 » by 76ciology » Wed May 15, 2019 5:09 pm

VCBC wrote:
Snotbubbles wrote:
76ciology wrote:Ben Simmons


Intersting you say this. I was thinking something along the lines of:

Sign and trade Tobias Harris + Ben Simmons for Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday. Re-sign Butler and JJ Redick.

Jrue Holiday
JJ Redick
Jimmy Butler
Anthony Davis
Joel Embiid

Pretty tough lineup there.
Oh the sign & trade. Why do armchair GMs still think that's a possibility? Time to brush on your CBA reading, S&Ts won't ever happen again for max guys.


Ok. ben for ad straight up. Done
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#163 » by VCBC » Wed May 15, 2019 5:15 pm

76ciology wrote:
VCBC wrote:
Snotbubbles wrote:
Intersting you say this. I was thinking something along the lines of:

Sign and trade Tobias Harris + Ben Simmons for Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday. Re-sign Butler and JJ Redick.

Jrue Holiday
JJ Redick
Jimmy Butler
Anthony Davis
Joel Embiid

Pretty tough lineup there.
Oh the sign & trade. Why do armchair GMs still think that's a possibility? Time to brush on your CBA reading, S&Ts won't ever happen again for max guys.


Ok. ben for ad straight up. Done
Salary Cap FAQ should become your best friend.

Trade doesn't work salary wise.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#164 » by Capn'O » Wed May 15, 2019 5:15 pm

Shoe wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Shoe wrote:
Lakers fans are delusional. Knicks fans are too if they think Kyrie, Durant and role players can stroll to a title. LeBron and AD can beat those Knicks.


Excuse me??? Who said anything about strolling or titles? The Knicks work BEGINS after Kyrie and KD sign. It's a really narrow window to becoming a contender from there and I happen to disagree that simply cashing in all your assets for one more star is the best route forward. Basketball is a 5 on 5 games with significant subs.

Feel free to disagree but be respectful and comprehend what's being said.


I am respectful and I comprehend what's being said. If you watch the playoffs and come away thinking the Knicks don't need Anthony Davis, you are woefully wrong. The Sixers needed significant subs because Simmons, Butler, and Harris are not in the same stratosphere as Durant and Davis. Kyrie looked lost. You're playing with fire if Kawhi re-signs with the Raptors and Masai has a bunch of expirings to work with. You said it yourself that it's a narrow window. Knicks fans are just getting sentimental with their assets; it happens to every fanbase. Lakers fans are the most egregious though because Rich Paul would guarantee AD sign a 4 year extension. Absolutely would dump every single once of their young players to avoid another PG / Kawhi situation.


No. Calling somebody delusional and then completely butchering the point made is not respectful.

Of course the Knicks need Davis. They will still need a LOT of things if Kyrie/Durant sign. It's a question of HOW you use those assets to fill out the team around those guys. Getting one player and then not having many resources to fill down the team is not an approach I advocate.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#165 » by 76ciology » Wed May 15, 2019 5:25 pm

VCBC wrote:
76ciology wrote:
VCBC wrote:Oh the sign & trade. Why do armchair GMs still think that's a possibility? Time to brush on your CBA reading, S&Ts won't ever happen again for max guys.


Ok. ben for ad straight up. Done
Salary Cap FAQ should become your best friend.

Trade doesn't work salary wise.


We have cap space
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#166 » by VCBC » Wed May 15, 2019 5:40 pm

76ciology wrote:
VCBC wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Ok. ben for ad straight up. Done
Salary Cap FAQ should become your best friend.

Trade doesn't work salary wise.


We have cap space
So who you letting go? Tobias or JB?
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#167 » by Lalouie » Wed May 15, 2019 5:43 pm

trade davis to nyk. let nyk deal with davis's 1yr and trying to grab kyrie/kd, which i'm sure they'll be confident in doing.

trade #3 for atl's 8 & 10.

get another big

get some shooters. are there any shooters in the draft?
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#168 » by The Laker Kid » Wed May 15, 2019 5:45 pm

Harden2Dwight wrote:Only Lakers fans would overvalue the #4 pick in a draft like this. After Zion and Morant, the talent value falls pretty steep.


Exactly. That #4 is worthless, might as well pick #45. Any trade package is better than the Lakers' offer (as always).
MaxwellSmart wrote:I hate to say this, but Go Lakers....
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#169 » by JamesDolan » Wed May 15, 2019 5:51 pm

Knicks ownership and FO are trash. The smart thing to do is keep JR and Mitch.

That some nice building blocks right there. JR can pass that rock and kid works his azz off.

I make fun of the Knicks all the time. But damn they might not be in position to steal KD and Kyrie.





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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#170 » by jfs1000d » Wed May 15, 2019 5:52 pm

jwise44 wrote:
13th Man wrote:Sorry but the Knicks assets (except for #3) all look like busts, no offense.

Mitchell Robinson? Dude looks great


Robinson a decent player. But let's not annoint a secnod round pick one of the NBAs great payers just yet.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#171 » by dakomish23 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:59 pm

I think BOS has the best package b/c of Tatum. He'll look great when he becomes the #1 option.

Zion
Tatum
Brown

That's an awesome core to build around.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#172 » by hookshot199 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 pm

robbie84 wrote:Pels have landed #1. Congratulations to the NO fans!
So, this post is going to assume they are trading Davis for one of these packages...if you can think of a better package from another team, please add below in the replies.

Knicks can offer:
#3 pick
Dennis Smith
Kevin Knox
Mudiay
Henry Ellenson
Robinson
Mavs 2021 pick

Lakers can offer:
#4 pick
Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
Kuzma
Lonzo

Celtics can offer:
#14 pick
#20 pick
#22 pick
2020 Memphis pick
Tatum
Brown
Smart
Semi Ojeleye

A package of something from those assets is what it will likely take. So what package does NO take and why?
Keep in mind they are probably building around these assets and Zion who plays PF/SF or a combo forward type i guess.

Hard to turn down the Knicks offer of Smith, Knox and the #3 pick to go with Zion simply because you can gamble on Knox and Smith and you also have the #3 pick to get Ja Morant or whoever is left to pick from.

That being said, the Lakers have Ingram and the #4 pick. Cetlics have Tatum, Brown and some first rounders.

I can't see a clear winner? This is going to be exciting, and I'd say NO is going to land a motherload of a package for AD lol.



None of these deals is enough. And the picks, the Celtics' in particular, have almost no value. The problem is that only one draft pick, Zion Williamson, gets you close to putting together a package. And New Orleans owns that pick.

So, if I were to choose among your options:

Celtics: Tatum, Jaylen Brown, 2020 Memphis (though it may have little value) and 2019 #14 and 2019 #20 picks.
Though I love Smart, I probably wouldn't take him. But he's signed to a good contract, so consider it.

Lakers: Hart, Kuzma, Lonzo, Ingram (only if you want to pay him; he's due to be upped), and the 2019 #4 pick.
Plus Wagner.

Knicks: 2019 #3, Robinson, Knox and Smith; maybe Luke Kornet. Not Mudiay

Take on no bad contracts like Hayward or Lance Thomas.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#173 » by drekwins » Wed May 15, 2019 7:00 pm

If you have a new franchise star, new GM and are still recovering from a public PR disaster at the end of last year... and a franchise that is borderline solvent... you want absolutely ZERO drama. You want everyone to fall in love with the guys on the team. Essentially, you need to create a positive atmosphere full of hope.

Do the LAL or BOS guys screams positivity? The Bos guys were all just a part of one of the most dysfunctional locker rooms in recent memory. On the other hand, for the LAL, Ingram is coming off of blood clots and Kuzma/Lonzo have said that they don't want to be a part of a small market like NO.

Meanwhile, the Knicks have a New Orleans Kid (Mitch), Zion's best friend (Barrett), picks and several other lottery talents on rookie contracts. It would be very easy to sell the Knick's guys to the New Orleans fanbase and move on from the AD mess. If they trade for Lonzo and Ingram... only to create more issues, then they're going to have a big problem on their hands. Why even go down that road?
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#174 » by soxfan2003 » Wed May 15, 2019 7:04 pm

This will be an interesting off-season.

If price for AD becomes too high and I personally think Smart/Brown/Tatum/Memphis pick is already too high, Boston arguably best off by letting Kyrie and Morris both walk or doing some sign and trades for them to get future picks while picking up bad short term contracts. And then trading Hayward and Horford at the deadline to highest bidders for bad contracts. And with playing time/shot attempts, I'd place 85% odds on hayward having some nice value by next years deadline. He was one of the few Celtics trying to play the right way vs the Bucks. Put Hayward on Warriors in place of KD, all of a sudden no one would think he is anything less than a top 50 player right now. But Celtics outside of a few players like Horford and Hayward have a somewhat selfish team right now.

If I am Ainge, I'd feel much better trading for AD if Laker and Knicks use up their cap space this summer so this is kind of a game of chicken.

Lakers probably "win it" if they are willing to trade Lebron to highest bidder that has cap room and his able to accept his contract but are they willing to do that? Trade Lebron to highest bidder and then all of a sudden they can afford to truly overpay if need be for AD. This assumes Leonard is willing to take Lebron's place.

I actually think Leonard would be willing to do this but only if it didn't appear as though he was scheming to screw over Lebron so that he could play with AD in LA. But given how Lebron wouldn't hesitate to probably **** other players for his own interests, turn about may be fair play.

I don't think AD gives a damn about playing with Lebron but I do think he would prefer playing with Lakers or perhaps Knicks. I just see the guy wanting best team possible in major market -- ideally LA or NY.

Right now, my money would probably be on the Knicks if KD wants to go there. If not, Celtics probably pay a price that may be too high and get him.

The ironic thing is...Boston if they trade for AD without a long term commitment is probably best off with Kyrie going to Knicks or Lakers in long term deal. Kyrie signing with lakers takes them out of 2020 AD sweepstakes since they won't have cap room unless I guess they are prepared to dump Lebron then. Kyrie going to Knicks probably won't win enough for AD to want to go to NY after next season.

Add all of this up, it really is interesting since all 3 teams(NY, Boston, LA) are fully capable of paying more than AD is actually worth and their are other teams that could get involved. The question for all 3 of the major players is if they can seriously contend after doing so. And even if they can, would they be better off with a different approach that shows more patience.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#175 » by drekwins » Wed May 15, 2019 7:08 pm

soxfan2003 wrote:This will be an interesting off-season.

If price for AD becomes too high and I personally think Smart/Brown/Tatum/Memphis pick is already too high, Boston arguably best off by letting Kyrie and Morris both walk or doing some sign and trades for them to get future picks while picking up bad short term contracts. And then trading Hayward and Horford at the deadline to highest bidders for bad contracts. And with playing time/shot attempts, I'd place 85% odds on hayward having some nice value by next years deadline. He was one of the few Celtics trying to play the right way vs the Bucks. Put Hayward on Warriors in place of KD, all of a sudden no one would think he is anything less than a top 50 player right now. But Celtics outside of a few players like Horford and Hayward have a somewhat selfish team right now.

If I am Ainge, I'd feel much better trading for AD if Laker and Knicks use up their cap space this summer so this is kind of a game of chicken.

Lakers probably "win it" if they are willing to trade Lebron to highest bidder that has cap room and his able to accept his contract but are they willing to do that? Trade Lebron to highest bidder and then all of a sudden they can afford to truly overpay if need be for AD. This assumes Leonard is willing to take Lebron's place.

I actually think Leonard would be willing to do this but only if it didn't appear as though he was scheming to screw over Lebron so that he could play with AD in LA. But given how Lebron wouldn't hesitate to probably **** other players for his own interests, turn about may be fair play.

I don't think AD gives a damn about playing with Lebron but I do think he would prefer playing with Lakers or perhaps Knicks. I just see the guy wanting best team possible in major market -- ideally LA or NY.

Right now, my money would probably be on the Knicks if KD wants to go there. If not, Celtics probably pay a price that may be too high and get him.

The ironic thing is...Boston if they trade for AD without a long term commitment is probably best off with Kyrie going to Knicks or Lakers in long term deal. Kyrie signing with lakers takes them out of 2020 AD sweepstakes since they won't have cap room unless I guess they are prepared to dump Lebron then. Kyrie going to Knicks probably won't win enough for AD to want to go to NY after next season.

Add all of this up, it really is interesting since all 3 teams(NY, Boston, LA) are fully capable of paying more than AD is actually worth and their are other teams that could get involved. The question for all 3 of the major players is if they can seriously contend after doing so. And even if they can, would they be better off with a different approach that shows more patience.


Cap-wise... if the Knicks want AD to go along with KD and Kyrie/Kemba, they have to gut their roster anyways. All of the salaries have to go no matter what. The question is, how many picks/swaps will be required? The Knicks have 5 1st Rnd Picks from 2021-2023. Those extra picks in the KP deal could prove to be very valuable in this trade and in building a team around a potential big 3.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#176 » by drekwins » Wed May 15, 2019 7:13 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
robbie84 wrote:Pels have landed #1. Congratulations to the NO fans!
So, this post is going to assume they are trading Davis for one of these packages...if you can think of a better package from another team, please add below in the replies.

Knicks can offer:
#3 pick
Dennis Smith
Kevin Knox
Mudiay
Henry Ellenson
Robinson
Mavs 2021 pick

Lakers can offer:
#4 pick
Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
Kuzma
Lonzo

Celtics can offer:
#14 pick
#20 pick
#22 pick
2020 Memphis pick
Tatum
Brown
Smart
Semi Ojeleye

A package of something from those assets is what it will likely take. So what package does NO take and why?
Keep in mind they are probably building around these assets and Zion who plays PF/SF or a combo forward type i guess.

Hard to turn down the Knicks offer of Smith, Knox and the #3 pick to go with Zion simply because you can gamble on Knox and Smith and you also have the #3 pick to get Ja Morant or whoever is left to pick from.

That being said, the Lakers have Ingram and the #4 pick. Cetlics have Tatum, Brown and some first rounders.

I can't see a clear winner? This is going to be exciting, and I'd say NO is going to land a motherload of a package for AD lol.



None of these deals is enough. And the picks, the Celtics' in particular, have almost no value. The problem is that only one draft pick, Zion Williamson, gets you close to putting together a package. And New Orleans owns that pick.

So, if I were to choose among your options:

Celtics: Tatum, Jaylen Brown, 2020 Memphis (though it may have little value) and 2019 #14 and 2019 #20 picks.
Though I love Smart, I probably wouldn't take him. But he's signed to a good contract, so consider it.

Lakers: Hart, Kuzma, Lonzo, Ingram (only if you want to pay him; he's due to be upped), and the 2019 #4 pick.
Plus Wagner.

Knicks: 2019 #3, Robinson, Knox and Smith; maybe Luke Kornet. Not Mudiay

Take on no bad contracts like Hayward or Lance Thomas.


Your guestimate and analysis of a Knicks offer is way off. Lance Thomas is not guaranteed. His contract is great. I'm sure that NO would also want Trier and/or Ntilikina just for the hell of it. The Knicks also have 5 first round picks between 2021-2023.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#177 » by soxfan2003 » Wed May 15, 2019 7:33 pm

drekwins wrote:If you have a new franchise star, new GM and are still recovering from a public PR disaster at the end of last year... and a franchise that is borderline solvent... you want absolutely ZERO drama. You want everyone to fall in love with the guys on the team. Essentially, you need to create a positive atmosphere full of hope.

Do the LAL or BOS guys screams positivity? The Bos guys were all just a part of one of the most dysfunctional locker rooms in recent memory. On the other hand, for the LAL, Ingram is coming off of blood clots and Kuzma/Lonzo have said that they don't want to be a part of a small market like NO.

Meanwhile, the Knicks have a New Orleans Kid (Mitch), Zion's best friend (Barrett), picks and several other lottery talents on rookie contracts. It would be very easy to sell the Knick's guys to the New Orleans fanbase and move on from the AD mess. If they trade for Lonzo and Ingram... only to create more issues, then they're going to have a big problem on their hands. Why even go down that road?


Barrett can't shoot right now that well. Check his free throw percentage. Neither can Zion so Pelicans would be betting on at least one of them really improving their shooting big time.

Tatum among all of the young talent in the NBA is the best fit for Zion. Tatum is also a Duke player. Tatum has some deficiencies to work out but I am confident on a team with Zion attracting double teams but also being a willing passer that Tatum's worse tendencies would be rectified. Tatum can shoot. Check out his free throw percentage at Duke and in the NBA and check out his 3 point percentage in the NBA.

Tatum's biggest deficiency is midrange shooting which is a shot he shouldn't even be taking in high volume. He needs a coach to just bench him when that happens too much and he will learn quickly.

That being said, #3 pick is a good asset -- below Tatum but still worth a decent amount -- and not much prevents Knicks trading that pick for a player that better fits Zion.

The only issue with Pelicans not wanting Barrett is whether it upsets Zion since maybe he wants to play with his friend. Zion/Barrett would be a nice pairing if they both turned into very good shooters but as it currently stands very risky from Pelicans point of view.

When it comes to Lonzo and Ingram. I think Ingram is a bad fit as well since he just doesn't project to be that good of a shooter but if Lonzo isn't in position to ask for much on contract extension, he may be a good gamble if Pelicans ready to trade Holiday. Lonzo may never be a very good scorer/shooter but he could be a very good all around player that hits open 3's like Jason Kidd. The rest of the players would need to be able to shoot, however. And Ball obvious injury risk based upon his first two seasons.

Tatum/Brown can be a little selfish at times but they were put in a very bad situation this year with Kyrie/Hayward/Morris and a center that an score in Horford. That is literally 4 SF's that deserve 20-35 MPG on the same team. Brown tends to play the right way in the playoffs for his skillset but he doesn't project to be a shooter himself so Pelicans should prefer Tatum to Brown since they have Zion.

Personally speaking I don't think Ainge should trade Tatum/Brown/Smart/Memphis pick. He needs to keep Brown or Tatum if he is including Smart and Memphis pick that has a real chance to be better than any pick in this draft outside of Zion. Davis is a top 4-10 player but I'd rather see Ainge do a mini rebuild once price becomes too high but I suspect his loyalty to Horford/Hayward may end up having him overpay for AD.

It may be a mistake. And I say this as the _earliest proponent_ of a Nets type trade that I know of on realgm. I called that sort of trade and was beating the drum for it that when it happened someone on Celtics forum joked I was Danny Ainge. I was all on board for the KG trade.

Superstars are great but there is still a price that can be paid where it is too high. AD is certainly better than Carmelo Anthony but not so good that Boston should wildly overpay for the guy.

In an era of Curry and Klay's 3's, AD's 2's are a bit devalued. I think the smart teams like the Warriors have figured out Davis a bit. Warriors had great difficulty with Davis at first but contained him in 2018 playoffs. Davis scored a bunch of points but had a TS% of 53%.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#178 » by shi-woo » Wed May 15, 2019 8:07 pm

LBC SoCal wrote:So a serious question to Boston fans.......if Kyrie leaves do you still want to proceed and trade your youth for AD? Seems like some of you are torn on that, so just curious.
Naa not after Haywards injury. If we had prime GH, for sure, but right now that remains to be seen.

If Kyrie walks it's not a disaster like people are making it out to be. The Kyrie trade was more of a wash trade with high upside. We didn't have to pay IT, or Avery Bradley, and moved Crowder who while on a good deal, wasn't going to get minute with our eyes on GH or Tatum. So the trade was really just a garbage pick for two years of upside.

Having a core of Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Williams locked up for years is a nice place to start a "rebuild", and then we have 35+ million off the books in 2020 and 2021. I would play the FA game, and hope that Memphis is a step to slow out West.

Trading #14 and one of the later picks could help you move up and get another really solid player like White or Garland. If Celtics go into next year with a rotation of:

Baynes- Williams
Horford- Semi
Tatum- Hayward
Brown- Smart
Garland/White

I'm 100% down with that. No drama, make the playoffs, see what Brown and Tatum have, and add another lottery pick at the end of the year. Still very promising as a Celtics fan

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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#179 » by Lucky Clover » Wed May 15, 2019 9:06 pm

The Laker Kid wrote:
Harden2Dwight wrote:Only Lakers fans would overvalue the #4 pick in a draft like this. After Zion and Morant, the talent value falls pretty steep.


Exactly. That #4 is worthless, might as well pick #45. Any trade package is better than the Lakers' offer (as always).


:lol:

That wasn't at all what I was trying to say. I just think there's a pretty large drop off after the first couple of players in the draft so while the #4 pick looks better than the #10 pick it still isn't enough to move the needle of getting AD any more than it would've been back near the trade deadline. I'm just surprised to see people overreacting to the idea that now the Lakers are in the driver's seat to get AD because they went from #10 to #4 -- this draft is pretty even after the top gets cut off.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#180 » by LKN » Wed May 15, 2019 9:10 pm

The Laker Kid wrote:
Harden2Dwight wrote:Only Lakers fans would overvalue the #4 pick in a draft like this. After Zion and Morant, the talent value falls pretty steep.


Exactly. That #4 is worthless, might as well pick #45. Any trade package is better than the Lakers' offer (as always).


There's a few guys (ex. Bol Bol) to take a flier on this year and hope you get the next Kawhi or Giannis... but yeah - very little in the way of solid picks after the first few

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