If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD?

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What package does NO take over the others?

Knicks
85
28%
Lakers
93
30%
Celtics
128
42%
 
Total votes: 306

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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#201 » by hookshot199 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:07 am

robbie84 wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
robbie84 wrote:
Look at this from a critical viewpoint..(as GMs do with all potential trades/acquisitions)

-So Brandon Ingram, who is due for a new contract, coming off a condition that ended Chris Bosh's career.

-Lonzo 'the glass bust' Ball and his father/ family drama.

-Kyle 'dont want no small market' Kuzma
And
Josh Hart
The #4 pick

Are
'the best combo of players and picks'.

This suggests you're a Lakers fan.



I'm not a Lakers fan or a Celtics fan. But the question is: Is Smart, Brown and Tatum the best offer out there?
You have no picks, with due respect. It's possible that the Memphis pick will convey in the top five in 2021, but
that playing the markets not making basketball decisions.

And if you get rid of Smart, Brown and Tatum, what do you have left?

As for Celtics picks, I think Ainge hit on Tatum and Smart, a 3 pick and a 6 pick. Jaylen Brown, another 3 pick who
I like, the jury is still out IMO. Is he Brad Stevens creation?

As for the value of picks over 10, the best picks you've made in the past 20 years were Avery Bradley, Tony Allen,
Rajon Rondo (by way of a trade) and Al Jefferson. Only Rondo became a star. It's fools gold if you're not offering
a top 5 pick (there are exceptions), and even then it depends on the draft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history


I agree, that is the question.
The next question is, does the #3 pick from NY or the #4 pick from the Lakers+ their players have the potential to be better than Tatum, Brown and Smart +Celtics picks combined? Or even Tatum? Where would a college freshman Tatum go in this draft?
I think (trying to put my Celtics bias aside), that the Knicks and Celtics have the best offers. Jason Tatum just turned 21 and has 'proven' himself to an extent.
My thoughts are that although he underachieved to an extent this season, an NBA GM will see him as a just as good, if not better prospect than anyone available from #4 (maybe #3 too) onwards in this draft given his play in his rookie season when there weren't so many other players needing the ball and taking away usage % from him.

Also, those C's picks you mentioned were all mid/late first round picks (Perkins, Posey, Rondo, Jefferson).


Thanks for your response. I forgot Perkins who came by way of a trade on draft night circa whenever.
Posey, however, came by way of a trade several years after he was drafted.

The thing is, I didn't watch the Lakers enough to know how good or bad their players are in the LeBron era.
Also, part of me wants Davis to go to the Lakers - and make them strip their roster - because of what LeBron
did to Philly last July when the only "basketball" decision he could have made was to sign with the Sixers. He
chose, in my opinion, not to be the G.O.A.T. If the Lakers strip their roster, with or without Davis, he'll have
to play with another Dream Team. And the clock is ticking. My bias :D Enjoy.

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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#202 » by Buzzard » Thu May 16, 2019 4:28 am

I like the original rumored Lakers package now that they have the 4th pick. I doubt they offer that much this time around. NY has nothing close IMO; and Bostons core took a hit this year with Kyrie running the show.

I know the Pelican's GM likes to think he is dealing from a stance that he has the leverage, but so long as AD is naming who he re-signs with and really wants to be in NY or LA, that stance is weak.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#203 » by dred926 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:36 am

If the lakers had the best package as what these fans believes.. why did NOLA wait for the season to end?

i find it hard to believe that they were just waiting until lakers get the fourth pick... If the lakers got the 2nd pick then yes its better.


delusional
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#204 » by flipside21 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:45 am

If I am NO and I am thinking about the health of my franchise and marketability I can't really escape the idea that you call up New York about that 3rd pick . . . Keeping RJ Barrett and Zion together makes for a REALLY compelling story line that the NBA will love and could create some real momentum for the franchise. Most importantly it gives you 2 top players who are on 5 years of cost controlled deals which is the time you need to get a handle on your contracts, suck for a while, and pick up a key piece in 3 or so years when you are on the upswing.

Would the Knicks, in a bidding War, go so far as:

DSJ
Robinson
Knox
Hezonja
#3

for

Anthony Davis

Would yield a core along the lines of:

Holiday/DSJ
Barrett
Zion/Knox
Randle
Robinson/Okafor

I would see if I can move Holiday for another draft asset. Can Knox + Holiday get 6 from Phoenix?

How about:

DSJ
Barret
Reddish
Zion/Randle
Robinson

I mean come on . . . do it.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#205 » by TheNG » Thu May 16, 2019 6:25 am

I'm not which is the best package, but I'm sure who's the worst- the Lakers.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#206 » by LAL » Thu May 16, 2019 6:34 am

dred926 wrote:If the lakers had the best package as what these fans believes.. why did NOLA wait for the season to end?

i find it hard to believe that they were just waiting until lakers get the fourth pick... If the lakers got the 2nd pick then yes its better.


delusional


Because the Pelicans are an incompetent franchise that can’t do anything right. Idk why everyone thinks Davis will be moved at all, it seems pretty clear they are willing to go down with the ship.

They’ve had two separate all time great players over the past 15 years and less than nothing to show for it. Truly terrible and it looks like the cycle will repeat again.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#207 » by dantheman74 » Thu May 16, 2019 6:37 am

You give everything for him, clean house and rebuild around him, whatever it takes! If you want to make final 4 you need AD.
If i'm the Pelicans GM i first get half a team for AD from the Celtics[and force Solomon Hill in on the trade for more capspace[sorry Boston], then acquire a chunk/reunite the Lakers young core-(Ingram/Ball/Kuzma) and their #4 pick for the #1(the big young lad that can jump through the roof to catch Lebrons lobs....you know the Lakers would take this to get a big name, they're in a **** atm, and a rebuilding block like Zion would take the pressure off of making instant playoffs while Lebron sidesteps into LALA land whatever/acting),and New Orleans also gets best available at 4. Dreams are free; They'd start the season with:

Ball/Rozier/F.Jackson/E.Payton
Holiday/J/Brown/Moore/I.Clark
Tatum/Ingram/D.Miller/S.Johnson
Kuzma/Lakers #4 lottery pick/Okafor/Diallo
Randle/Robert Williams 111/Celtics#14 lottery pick
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#208 » by Jhawk03 » Thu May 16, 2019 6:37 am

Simmons has the most innocuous value of any player I've ever seen, considering he's been mentioned.

edit
One day it's for Lebron, another day for AD, how about no... I mean the word NO!, not New Orleans
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#209 » by Snotbubbles » Thu May 16, 2019 12:27 pm

VCBC wrote:
Snotbubbles wrote:
76ciology wrote:Ben Simmons


Intersting you say this. I was thinking something along the lines of:

Sign and trade Tobias Harris + Ben Simmons for Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday. Re-sign Butler and JJ Redick.

Jrue Holiday
JJ Redick
Jimmy Butler
Anthony Davis
Joel Embiid

Pretty tough lineup there.
Oh the sign & trade. Why do armchair GMs still think that's a possibility? Time to brush on your CBA reading, S&Ts won't ever happen again for max guys.


My bad. Didn't know Tobias Harris signed a max deal. Could you share the link to that information?

Last I saw, Clippers offered him an $80M contract offer. A max offer from Philly would be $188M so only a bridge of $108M to get from what he was offered to the max. The Sixers could offer him a 4 year, $140M which would be a $60M more than what LA offered him to be eligible for sign-and-trade.

There are probably only 9-10 teams that could even offer Harris a 4-year max contract (Atlanta, Brooklyn, Dallas, Indiana, Clippers, Lakers, Knicks, Philly, Sacramento, maybe Utah). We already know the Clippers aren't signing Harris to a max. So you got 7-8 teams (excluding Philly) with space. With guys like Durant, Leonard, Irving, Walker, Butler and Thompson on the market, I'll be very surprised if Philly has to go in max territory with Harris. He's more on a tier with Middleton and Vucevic. I'm thinking a 4 year, $110-120M contract will land him. Sign and trade anyone?
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#210 » by rasta_marley » Thu May 16, 2019 12:50 pm

Best2EverDoIt wrote:I don't see Boston trading for him period. Even if Kyrie were to stay, they arent going to give up Tatum, Brown and Smart for him let alone 3 first rounders to boot lol. I wouldn't even trade Tatum straight up for him honestly.


Ya had me seriously considering your response until that last sentence.

I'm not a celtics fan but I'd trade Tatum for AD straight up so fast it would give you whiplash. Need to cool it on that cool aide amigo lol.
Heej wrote:And tbh I'm not entirely convinced MJ wasn't just the 90s version of KD.

:lol:
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#211 » by Showtime23 » Thu May 16, 2019 12:56 pm

#7, WCJ, Lavine, Dunn, Hutch, Valentine, Felicio, 2020,2022 unprotected for Davis, Holiday.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#212 » by Jon1798 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:04 pm

LAL wrote:
dred926 wrote:If the lakers had the best package as what these fans believes.. why did NOLA wait for the season to end?

i find it hard to believe that they were just waiting until lakers get the fourth pick... If the lakers got the 2nd pick then yes its better.


delusional


Because the Pelicans are an incompetent franchise that can’t do anything right. Idk why everyone thinks Davis will be moved at all, it seems pretty clear they are willing to go down with the ship.

They’ve had two separate all time great players over the past 15 years and less than nothing to show for it. Truly terrible and it looks like the cycle will repeat again.


Did a Lakers fan post this? I just, I just can’t even lol
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#213 » by hookshot199 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:20 pm

robbie84 wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
robbie84 wrote:
Look at this from a critical viewpoint..(as GMs do with all potential trades/acquisitions)

-So Brandon Ingram, who is due for a new contract, coming off a condition that ended Chris Bosh's career.

-Lonzo 'the glass bust' Ball and his father/ family drama.

-Kyle 'dont want no small market' Kuzma
And
Josh Hart
The #4 pick

Are
'the best combo of players and picks'.

This suggests you're a Lakers fan.



I'm not a Lakers fan or a Celtics fan. But the question is: Is Smart, Brown and Tatum the best offer out there?
You have no picks, with due respect. It's possible that the Memphis pick will convey in the top five in 2021, but
that playing the markets not making basketball decisions.

And if you get rid of Smart, Brown and Tatum, what do you have left?

As for Celtics picks, I think Ainge hit on Tatum and Smart, a 3 pick and a 6 pick. Jaylen Brown, another 3 pick who
I like, the jury is still out IMO. Is he Brad Stevens creation?

As for the value of picks over 10, the best picks you've made in the past 20 years were Avery Bradley, Tony Allen,
Rajon Rondo (by way of a trade) and Al Jefferson. Only Rondo became a star. It's fools gold if you're not offering
a top 5 pick (there are exceptions), and even then it depends on the draft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history


I agree, that is the question.
The next question is, does the #3 pick from NY or the #4 pick from the Lakers+ their players have the potential to be better than Tatum, Brown and Smart +Celtics picks combined? Or even Tatum? Where would a college freshman Tatum go in this draft?
I think (trying to put my Celtics bias aside), that the Knicks and Celtics have the best offers. Jason Tatum just turned 21 and has 'proven' himself to an extent.
My thoughts are that although he underachieved to an extent this season, an NBA GM will see him as a just as good, if not better prospect than anyone available from #4 (maybe #3 too) onwards in this draft given his play in his rookie season when there weren't so many other players needing the ball and taking away usage % from him.

Also, those C's picks you mentioned were all mid/late first round picks (Perkins, Posey, Rondo, Jefferson).




Sorry, I didn't respond properly yesterday. Apologies. I kept thinking of what the Lakers assembled this past
year - including Rondo and Lance Stevenson. I don't think they compete if they strip their roster. LeBron turns
35 in December. He's finally proven he's mortal. They hired a decent coach. Whether he'll succeed in Tinseltown
is another matter. I think most of the talking heads have missed the point with the Jason Kidd hiring. I think he's
there to groom and develop Lonzo Ball and, like D'Antoni when he spent a year as an assistant to Brett Brown,
rebuild his brand to be available In June 2020 when somebody gets fired.

But main point: I actually think that Kuzma, Ball, Hart (a perennial 20 mpg bench player), Moritz Wagner (a
developmental center) and the 4 pick is a better offer. I don't know how to make the numbers work unless
you include Ingram and, as I mentioned, I'm not sure he's someone you want to invest four years/$80 mil or
four years/$90 mil even if his health issues are resolved.

I think the 4 pick, even in a weak draft, has more value to a rebuilding team that Smart (good as he is and on
a good contract) and any of the Celtics picks even if you offer them all. Unfortunately, quantity tends not to
equal quality. The issue then comes down to Jaylen Brown and Tatum's upside: I think Jaylen Brown flourishes
in Brad Stevens' system and will be lost playing for another coach. We've just had a rather heated discussion
on the Philly board about Brett Brown and his coaching competence. I think Tatum would become the next
Jae Crowder if he played for the Sixers - shooting closer to .300 from 3 rather than .350-.400.

Then the question is Tatum: Is he better than Kuzma and Ball. Maybe. Probably. On the other hand, is he your
number one option? No. Will he ever be your number one option? Probably not. I realize he's only 21, is an
excellent shooter, and plays with an attitude, but he doesn't have a real good handle and can't create his own
offense if you put a guy like Jimmy Butler on him. I think he's a number two option on offense, perhaps even
three if he's not playing for Brad Stevens.

Lonzo Ball, a two pick in the Tatum draft, will become a good point guard. I have no idea what Kuzma's upside
would be if, for instance, he played for Brad Stevens and not Luke Walton.

Rightly or wrongly, Brad Stevens makes players better.

So last point: New Orleans has Jrue Holiday under contract for three more years. Jrue can play the two. They
also have Julius Randle in the final year of a two-year deal. If I'm going to throw $80 mil at somebody, I'd go
for him. And keep in mind, New Orleans has the number one pick, presumably Zion Williamson.

I would trade Davis to LA if it's between the Celtics and the Lakers and not include Ingram in the deal. Let the
Lakers deal with his health problems and upcoming contract extension.

Just my opinion.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#214 » by nycefnl » Thu May 16, 2019 1:32 pm

Man I love Mitchell Robinson and I'm not a huge AD fan. I think he's overrated. That being said...the knicks trade is a no brainer. But I would make the trade. If you have the opportunity to have a front line of Mitchel, Bolbol, and Zion and Dennis Smith and crazy cap space to overpay for shooters like Reddick, Green, and vets like VInce and Rondo. No brainer...But if there would be any way to wait until Durant and or Kyrie sign elsewhere first then to send AD there by himself so he wouldn't get to be on a true contender.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#215 » by hookshot199 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:37 pm

nycefnl wrote:Man I love Mitchell Robinson and I'm not a huge AD fan. I think he's overrated. That being said...the knicks trade is a no brainer. But I would make the trade. If you have the opportunity to have a front line of Mitchel, Bolbol, and Zion and Dennis Smith and crazy cap space to overpay for shooters like Reddick, Green, and vets like VInce and Rondo. No brainer...But if there would be any way to wait until Durant and or Kyrie sign elsewhere first then to send AD there by himself so he wouldn't get to be on a true contender.


Don't forget Jrue Holiday and, at least for one more year, Julius Randle who many felt
was the heart of the Lakers pre-LeBron.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#216 » by reanimator » Thu May 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Boston>NYC>LA in a vacuum assuming each team puts all assets on the table and AD is willing to resign
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#217 » by JamesDolan » Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 pm

It would be glorious if Celtics trade Tatum, Brown, Smart and picks to New Orleans for a one year rental.

Then AD leaves to sign with the Lakers, please let it happen Basketball GOD's.

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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#218 » by Darth Celtic » Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
robbie84 wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:

I'm not a Lakers fan or a Celtics fan. But the question is: Is Smart, Brown and Tatum the best offer out there?
You have no picks, with due respect. It's possible that the Memphis pick will convey in the top five in 2021, but
that playing the markets not making basketball decisions.

And if you get rid of Smart, Brown and Tatum, what do you have left?

As for Celtics picks, I think Ainge hit on Tatum and Smart, a 3 pick and a 6 pick. Jaylen Brown, another 3 pick who
I like, the jury is still out IMO. Is he Brad Stevens creation?

As for the value of picks over 10, the best picks you've made in the past 20 years were Avery Bradley, Tony Allen,
Rajon Rondo (by way of a trade) and Al Jefferson. Only Rondo became a star. It's fools gold if you're not offering
a top 5 pick (there are exceptions), and even then it depends on the draft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history


I agree, that is the question.
The next question is, does the #3 pick from NY or the #4 pick from the Lakers+ their players have the potential to be better than Tatum, Brown and Smart +Celtics picks combined? Or even Tatum? Where would a college freshman Tatum go in this draft?
I think (trying to put my Celtics bias aside), that the Knicks and Celtics have the best offers. Jason Tatum just turned 21 and has 'proven' himself to an extent.
My thoughts are that although he underachieved to an extent this season, an NBA GM will see him as a just as good, if not better prospect than anyone available from #4 (maybe #3 too) onwards in this draft given his play in his rookie season when there weren't so many other players needing the ball and taking away usage % from him.

Also, those C's picks you mentioned were all mid/late first round picks (Perkins, Posey, Rondo, Jefferson).


Thanks for your response. I forgot Perkins who came by way of a trade on draft night circa whenever.
Posey, however, came by way of a trade several years after he was drafted.

The thing is, I didn't watch the Lakers enough to know how good or bad their players are in the LeBron era.
Also, part of me wants Davis to go to the Lakers - and make them strip their roster - because of what LeBron
did to Philly last July when the only "basketball" decision he could have made was to sign with the Sixers. He
chose, in my opinion, not to be the G.O.A.T. If the Lakers strip their roster, with or without Davis, he'll have
to play with another Dream Team. And the clock is ticking. My bias :D Enjoy.


do some research. Posey was signed as a free agent. Not a trade.
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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#219 » by ballup » Thu May 16, 2019 2:30 pm

Because the Pelicans have the first pick, there's diminishing returns for the 3rd and 4th picks of this draft. Face value, those picks are really good. A team not in the top 5 would pounce on those. How valuable they are to the Pelicans depends on how many players the Pelicans like from this draft, which many are saying is shallow and that's the real big question.

If I was the Pelicans, I wouldn't be enamored with any of the 3 potential packages. Robinson is the only piece without a stain, but one season playing backup minutes is not enough data to be confident. Look how far Tatum has fallen after a second season. Fortunately, Robinson's game is much simpler and there is less worry about his future. Lonzo and Kuzma look to be stopgaps/trade pieces. Ingram's future can be bought into, but the clot thing is a concern. Knowing the Pelicans medical history, there's hesitation to stepping into that. Tatum is no longer that prized possession and you wonder if he spirals to Wiggins levels. Jaylen you question whether he will put it all together. DSJ, super athletic, but I'm really low on his decision making and make enough of his shots to excuse that.

The Memphis and Dallas picks. Those are the mystery boxes. Because of the changed lottery odds, they are interesting as long as they are lottery range. The downside is either can go the other way. We all thought the Kings pick was guaranteed top 5 odds. The Celtics 2019 picks are all low calorie sweetners.



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Re: If you're the Pelicans, who can offer better package for AD? 

Post#220 » by BBALLER4FR » Thu May 16, 2019 2:32 pm

NY has the highest pick and the only chance at a player that could ease the burn of their currently disappointed incoming franchise player. You are all starting from a non-neutral stance to not first acknowledge that. For all the Tatum is the best option for N.O., that was before they got a true franchise player. Tatum was supposed to ease the pain of losing AD. Now any AD trade has to compliment Zion AND keep him interested. If you think Tatum over his friend, a guy he went to war with and a guy who is easily attainable for N.O., you're not being rational. The best option for N.O. fans and management is to make this guy as happy as they possibly can knowing your original franchise player wants to get outta dodge EVEN WITH potentially the next Lebron walking through the door. Tatum/Ingram/Kuzma...not the best asset nor the answer. Barrett is.
Sooooo..ummmm.....we tanking again or what?

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