Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand?

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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#101 » by Vladimir777 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:22 pm

ken6199 wrote:
Vladimir777 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Steph has a higher ceiling but a lower floor

Durant has a lower ceiling but a higher floor

whoever is better apparently hinges on whoever had the last best game per RealGM.


I would say this is the most accurate post.

For me, I value consistency, so I take Durant, but I understand that others take Curry. My problem is when people act like one or the other aren’t in the same league. They’re very similar in terms of how great both are. And they’re both **** great!


This is universally recognized as the most powerful way to convey a point these days. "Blah blah blah and it's not even close".


:curse:

So true unfortunately.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#102 » by cpower » Wed May 15, 2019 5:23 pm

TaylorTRoom wrote:I stole this from another message board-

If you took four NBA players at random, and a random NBA Coach, that team would be better with Durant as the 5th, rather than Curry. However, if three of those four players are Klay, Iggy, and Green, with Kerr as the coach, that team would be better with Curry. They know how to play together and maximize Curry’s talents.

no, KD does not help the teammates like Lebron or Curry. He is more iso and will do worse with random teammates. KD is the superman version of Kyrie.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#103 » by TaylorTRoom » Wed May 15, 2019 5:31 pm

cpower wrote:
TaylorTRoom wrote:I stole this from another message board-

If you took four NBA players at random, and a random NBA Coach, that team would be better with Durant as the 5th, rather than Curry. However, if three of those four players are Klay, Iggy, and Green, with Kerr as the coach, that team would be better with Curry. They know how to play together and maximize Curry’s talents.

no, KD does not help the teammates like Lebron or Curry. He is more iso and will do worse with random teammates. KD is the superman version of Kyrie.


That explains OKC’ greater success without him.

(That’s sarcasm, son.)
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#104 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:33 pm

KD is a very good defender. Curry is not. That's what wins out here.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#105 » by clyde21 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:KD is a very good defender. Curry is not. That's what wins out here.


better at rim protection I'll give you that but I don't think he's as good as Steph switching on the perimeter tbh, and let's not forget, Steph's lead the league in steals twice.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#106 » by Baski » Wed May 15, 2019 5:38 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:
Baski wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:He isn't. Curry effectively gave up chance to be top 10 (maybe even top 5) all time by having Durant come to his team.

With his one title and 2 MVPS?


He might have gotten one more title and one MVP before retiring without KD. I think top 10 is a stretch but honestly Kobe is a bubble guy for #10 and Currie has a higher peak.

It's possible, but given his durability issues and tendency to get shut down "sometimes", it's more unlikely than likely honestly.
I'm kinda surprised when people imply that Curry's legacy is actually being hurt by Durant joining. It's nonsense
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#107 » by Vladimir777 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:41 pm

G35 wrote:
TaylorTRoom wrote:In 2016, Cleveland gave us the blueprint for Curry- double him, switch into him, and wear him down. His 2016 TS% in the regular season was .669. In the playoffs it was .603. In the 2017 and 2018 playoffs, playing with Durant (meaning teams couldn’t focus on Curry to the same extent), Curry’s TS was .659, .590 and .626. Playoffs Life is easier for Curry when playing with Durant.



I don't think Curry is better than Durant. I think Durant is better in a wider variety of circumstances, while Steph is better in the Warriors scenario.

Its obvious that winning G6 vs the Rockets and G1 vs the Blazers is boosting Curry right now. But if you had asked what the perception of Steph was at halftime of that G6 vs the Rockets, it would be a lot fewer people on that bandwagon.

Now Steph did step up and carry the Warriors to the win and he did in dominating fashion so you have to give him that credit. But the G1 of the Blazers was not a very challenging game imo. The Blazers did not play with the intensity you have to play with if you want to beat the champs. The one thing we have all been saying about Curry in the playoffs is that he does not play well through contact and physicality. I don't think the Blazers were physical with him at all. I don't think they have anyone on the Blazers that is that type of defender.

A Bruce Bowen, Tony Allen, Patrick Beverly, PJ Tucker type that is going to drag you into the dirt. The Blazers are similar to the Warriors in that they are led by their guards but the difference is Draymond. Dray is the most physical player on the floor and the Blazers are going to have to push back if they want to make it a competitive series.

Honestly, what they need is for McCollum to morph into Joe Dumars and put the Curry rules on him. Otherwise, if the Blazers try and just play straight up, they are going to lose easily. The Warriors two best players are better than the Blazers two best players. If Kanter can somehow become a dominating force maybe they can force some mismatches but I don't see that happening. The Warriors are going to push the Blazers around imo.

If this is going to be a battle of who can shoot the 3ball better, we might as well move the Warriors on to the next round because Blazers do not have the firepower to keep up.

TL;DR Curry is not going to be challenged by the Blazers and it will create a perception. The Bucks provide a much stiffer test to Curry's dominance


Excellent post, and I agree with it.

A few good games seems to have turned this board around from Steph is out of the top 10 to Steph is the best player in the league. I think the truth lies closer to a midpoint between these two opinions.

The knee jerk reactions on this board are getting tiresome. I’m not usually a Steph fan (my own personal bias), but I was actually defending him because some of the hot takes going around earlier in the playoffs that he was outside of the top 10. As I said above, now a few good games have put him over Durant, who was earlier being touted as having one of the greatest playoff runs ever. So Curry, too, is having one of the greatest playoff runs?

I guess you guys could be saying that he isn’t, but that he’s a better overall basketball player than Durant, which is a fair argument to make.

Personally, my opinion of “best basketball player” is if you can take a random NBA team and insert the player—how would they do? I feel like Durant is more flexible in this argument, since he is better at defense, and although his offense might not peak quite as high as Steph’s, it’s still pretty damn close. That, combined with better health and availability (yes, I am aware of the irony of saying this as he’s currently out with a calf sprain, but you get my point) and more consistent playoff success (Steph is the better RS player, but I value POs more) put Durant over Steph for me.

They’re certainly comparable, though. I still have Steph in my Tier 2 currently (until this past year or two he was top 3 and Tier 1), but maybe I’ll bump him back up to Tier 1 if he keeps playing well throughout the playoffs (a Finals MVP would be nice, but good play either way will help him).
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#108 » by Vladimir777 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:44 pm

Baski wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
Baski wrote:With his one title and 2 MVPS?


He might have gotten one more title and one MVP before retiring without KD. I think top 10 is a stretch but honestly Kobe is a bubble guy for #10 and Currie has a higher peak.

It's possible, but given his durability issues and tendency to get shut down "sometimes", it's more unlikely than likely honestly.
I'm kinda surprised when people imply that Curry's legacy is actually being hurt by Durant joining. It's nonsense


I definitely agree that KD helped Steph’s legacy (and Steph also helped KD’s in equal measure). They got themselves two more rings! It’s not guaranteed at all that they would’ve done so otherwise, nor is it guaranteed either would’ve won a RS MVP. Harden, Giannis, and Russ had amazing seasons that these guys might not have matched.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#109 » by clyde21 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:45 pm

Baski wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
Baski wrote:With his one title and 2 MVPS?


He might have gotten one more title and one MVP before retiring without KD. I think top 10 is a stretch but honestly Kobe is a bubble guy for #10 and Currie has a higher peak.

It's possible, but given his durability issues and tendency to get shut down "sometimes", it's more unlikely than likely honestly.
I'm kinda surprised when people imply that Curry's legacy is actually being hurt by Durant joining. It's nonsense


yea, Steph can get 'shut down' sometimes as we clearly saw in the Houston series, but it's not like Houston sent 1 person to shut him down...Houston was sending doubles and allocating almost all their resources to stop shut him down...that counts for something. Meanwhile, KD was getting match ups vs. Austin Rivers and Chris Paul the entire time.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#110 » by ken6199 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:52 pm

Curry's legacy is both elevated and hurt by KD so I think any talk going extreme on either of the two is just telling half of the story.

Like clyde said above, Curry is a high ceiling low floor guy, and by KD joining him, it erases some of his high ceiling performances due to everyone's role being reduced; it also elevates Curry's floor because if you play crap here and there, I will come in erase that hole for you because I am a consistent finishing force who can always bail out broken plays even though I am not like you who is good at setting the floor for the others. They are an all time inter-complimenting pair added to an all time inter-complimenting trio, or quartet if you include Iggy.

It's an extremely hard topic here, because you can quantify it so many different ways. PPG change? More MVP? Less rings? I think we'll never get an definitive answer out of it, but it's still fun to discuss about the possibilities (as long as we don't go extreme on it). I kinda feel bad for the Warriors fans who have to constantly defend two opinions of hatred: 1) Curry is overrated 2) KD's rings are worthless, both of which go to the two extremities I listed above. I guess internet always wins.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#111 » by Baski » Wed May 15, 2019 5:59 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Baski wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
He might have gotten one more title and one MVP before retiring without KD. I think top 10 is a stretch but honestly Kobe is a bubble guy for #10 and Currie has a higher peak.

It's possible, but given his durability issues and tendency to get shut down "sometimes", it's more unlikely than likely honestly.
I'm kinda surprised when people imply that Curry's legacy is actually being hurt by Durant joining. It's nonsense


yea, Steph can get 'shut down' sometimes as we clearly saw in the Houston series, but it's not like Houston sent 1 person to shut him down...Houston was sending doubles and allocating almost all their resources to stop shut him down...that counts for something. Meanwhile, KD was getting match ups vs. Austin Rivers and Chris Paul the entire time.

This is tiresome. You do not need to remind everyone who highlights Curry's weaknesses that he gets treated like a superstar. We know. Her doesn't get bonus points for that.
I didn't compare the two of them, nor did I say Curry is trash. KD has helped Curry far far more than he's hurt him. That's all.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#112 » by clyde21 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:06 pm

Baski wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Baski wrote:It's possible, but given his durability issues and tendency to get shut down "sometimes", it's more unlikely than likely honestly.
I'm kinda surprised when people imply that Curry's legacy is actually being hurt by Durant joining. It's nonsense


yea, Steph can get 'shut down' sometimes as we clearly saw in the Houston series, but it's not like Houston sent 1 person to shut him down...Houston was sending doubles and allocating almost all their resources to stop shut him down...that counts for something. Meanwhile, KD was getting match ups vs. Austin Rivers and Chris Paul the entire time.

This is tiresome. You do not need to remind everyone who highlights Curry's weaknesses that he gets treated like a superstar. We know. Her doesn't get bonus points for that.
I didn't compare the two of them, nor did I say Curry is trash. KD has helped Curry far far more than he's hurt him. That's all.


no one is saying otherwise? but when you say Steph gets easily shut down, you need to provide context. teams are loading up on Steph to shut him down. you're ignoring THAT part. :roll:
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#113 » by Baski » Wed May 15, 2019 6:15 pm

Vladimir777 wrote:
Baski wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
He might have gotten one more title and one MVP before retiring without KD. I think top 10 is a stretch but honestly Kobe is a bubble guy for #10 and Currie has a higher peak.

It's possible, but given his durability issues and tendency to get shut down "sometimes", it's more unlikely than likely honestly.
I'm kinda surprised when people imply that Curry's legacy is actually being hurt by Durant joining. It's nonsense


I definitely agree that KD helped Steph’s legacy (and Steph also helped KD’s in equal measure). They got themselves two more rings! It’s not guaranteed at all that they would’ve done so otherwise, nor is it guaranteed either would’ve won a RS MVP. Harden, Giannis, and Russ had amazing seasons that these guys might not have matched.

Exactly this. Voter fatigue, Dray/Klay/Iggy declining/coasting, the annual injury, the possibility of whoever they sign with KD's capspace not being half as good as KD, the fatigue from 2 consecutive finals runs, the momentum the Cavs had after 2016 plus the establishment of the "Curry blueprint" as another poster put it and a bunch of others stick out as factors that would work against Curry winning another MVP, let alone going all the way to a 2nd championship. And then there's 2018 and 2019 too. It's............silly to assume not signing KD might actually cause things to turn out better than they have for them.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#114 » by clyde21 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:18 pm

Baski wrote:
Vladimir777 wrote:
Baski wrote:It's possible, but given his durability issues and tendency to get shut down "sometimes", it's more unlikely than likely honestly.
I'm kinda surprised when people imply that Curry's legacy is actually being hurt by Durant joining. It's nonsense


I definitely agree that KD helped Steph’s legacy (and Steph also helped KD’s in equal measure). They got themselves two more rings! It’s not guaranteed at all that they would’ve done so otherwise, nor is it guaranteed either would’ve won a RS MVP. Harden, Giannis, and Russ had amazing seasons that these guys might not have matched.

Exactly this. Voter fatigue, Dray/Klay/Iggy declining/coasting, the annual injury, the possibility of whoever they sign with KD's capspace not being half as good as KD, the fatigue from 2 consecutive finals runs, the momentum the Cavs had after 2016 plus the establishment of the "Curry blueprint" as another poster put it and a bunch of others stick out as factors that would work against Curry winning another MVP, let alone going all the way to a 2nd championship. And then there's 2018 and 2019 too. It's............silly to assume not signing KD might actually cause things to turn out better than they have for them.


i don't think anyone is suggesting that....i think people are saying that they're just funner to watch without KD.

KD made our margin of error that much greater though, especially in the POs when things get bogged down.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#115 » by cpower » Wed May 15, 2019 6:23 pm

TaylorTRoom wrote:
cpower wrote:
TaylorTRoom wrote:I stole this from another message board-

If you took four NBA players at random, and a random NBA Coach, that team would be better with Durant as the 5th, rather than Curry. However, if three of those four players are Klay, Iggy, and Green, with Kerr as the coach, that team would be better with Curry. They know how to play together and maximize Curry’s talents.

no, KD does not help the teammates like Lebron or Curry. He is more iso and will do worse with random teammates. KD is the superman version of Kyrie.


That explains OKC’ greater success without him.

(That’s sarcasm, son.)

him, you mean westbrook?
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#116 » by freethedevil » Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 pm

OdomFan wrote:I'd rather have the guy who plays good defense. Hint: not Curry.

which is why he's been a positive defender for the last 5 years on apm and led the league in steals twice?
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#117 » by Baski » Wed May 15, 2019 6:42 pm

clyde21 wrote:no one is saying otherwise?

Then don't respond to my post just to insert irrelevant information if you don't disagree with it. This is the second time you've done this in like 2 days. It is tiresome. Please stop.
but when you say Steph gets easily shut down, you need to provide context.

Go read my post again. You're arguing against your own strawman, also for the second time in as many days. Change the words in your head to whatever is least triggering to you and imagine I said that.
teams are loading up on Steph to shut him down. you're ignoring THAT part. :roll:

I'm ignoring it because it's a part of basketball, just like we "ignore" that Steph's TS% is always high because he shoots and makes a lot of 3s, or that Jokic plays centre because he's 7ft tall. It's not worth bringing up because It's how the game works. Teams load up on Steph/Lillard/Kyrie, teams sag off of LeBron/Simmons/Westbrook, teams doubled Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem to death, teams hacked Shaq and drafted 7fters for him, teams signed "LeBron stoppers", teams give Harden only midrange shots while forcing him to his weaker side etc etc.
It's called defensive gameplanning. When it works, the player is said to have been shut down/neutralized or whatever. The player doesn't go to the post-game press conference and say "I sucked because they tried to stop me, so let's strike this game off the record". He mans up and says "I could've played better". And for the record Curry does this as well. You guys need to be like him and stop spouting that "he gets defended more than his teammates" nonsense.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#118 » by Baski » Wed May 15, 2019 6:44 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Baski wrote:
Vladimir777 wrote:
I definitely agree that KD helped Steph’s legacy (and Steph also helped KD’s in equal measure). They got themselves two more rings! It’s not guaranteed at all that they would’ve done so otherwise, nor is it guaranteed either would’ve won a RS MVP. Harden, Giannis, and Russ had amazing seasons that these guys might not have matched.

Exactly this. Voter fatigue, Dray/Klay/Iggy declining/coasting, the annual injury, the possibility of whoever they sign with KD's capspace not being half as good as KD, the fatigue from 2 consecutive finals runs, the momentum the Cavs had after 2016 plus the establishment of the "Curry blueprint" as another poster put it and a bunch of others stick out as factors that would work against Curry winning another MVP, let alone going all the way to a 2nd championship. And then there's 2018 and 2019 too. It's............silly to assume not signing KD might actually cause things to turn out better than they have for them.


i don't think anyone is suggesting that....i think people are saying that they're just funner to watch without KD.

KD made our margin of error that much greater though, especially in the POs when things get bogged down.

My initial response was to a poster who said basically that. If you're not gonna follow conversations don't jump in with statements like "I don't think anyone said that".
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#119 » by clyde21 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:48 pm

Baski wrote:Then don't respond to my post just to insert irrelevant information if you don't disagree with it. This is the second time you've done this in like 2 days. It is tiresome. Please stop.

Go read my post again. You're arguing against your own strawman, also for the second time in as many days. Change the words in your head to whatever is least triggering to you and imagine I said that.


are you seriously this delusional? you've argued against strawmen in this very thread. every single one of your posts was a 'response' to conjured up strawmen that no one even said. i'm correcting you. take it like a man and stop throwing a temper tantrum.

I'm ignoring it because it's a part of basketball, just like we "ignore" that Steph's TS% is always high because he shoots and makes a lot of 3s, or that Jokic plays centre because he's 7ft tall. It's not worth bringing up because It's how the game works. Teams load up on Steph/Lillard/Kyrie, teams sag off of LeBron/Simmons/Westbrook, teams doubled Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem to death, teams hacked Shaq and drafted 7fters for him, teams signed "LeBron stoppers", teams give Harden only midrange shots while forcing him to his weaker side etc etc.


no, you can't just ignore context just because you feel like it. you did this a week ago against Houston when you failed to highlight (probably on purpose) that Iguodala was getting open 3s not because Houston didn't know how to defend, but because they were throwing everything at Steph instead. This piece of information is important when you keep bringing up that 'Steph gets shut down'. Yes, because they sell out to shut him down, which opens up lanes and space for everyone else. This is indisputable. Just look at KD's efficiency in OKC vs. his efficiency here in GS.
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Re: Durant better than Curry?!?! Make me understand? 

Post#120 » by Baski » Wed May 15, 2019 6:51 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Baski wrote:Then don't respond to my post just to insert irrelevant information if you don't disagree with it. This is the second time you've done this in like 2 days. It is tiresome. Please stop.

Go read my post again. You're arguing against your own strawman, also for the second time in as many days. Change the words in your head to whatever is least triggering to you and imagine I said that.


are you seriously this delusional? you've argued against strawmen in this very thread. every single one of your posts was a 'response' to conjured up strawmen that no one even said. i'm correcting you. take it like a man and stop throwing a temper tantrum.

I'm ignoring it because it's a part of basketball, just like we "ignore" that Steph's TS% is always high because he shoots and makes a lot of 3s, or that Jokic plays centre because he's 7ft tall. It's not worth bringing up because It's how the game works. Teams load up on Steph/Lillard/Kyrie, teams sag off of LeBron/Simmons/Westbrook, teams doubled Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem to death, teams hacked Shaq and drafted 7fters for him, teams signed "LeBron stoppers", teams give Harden only midrange shots while forcing him to his weaker side etc etc.


no, you can't just ignore context just because you feel like it. you did this a week ago against Houston when you failed to highlight (probably on purpose) that Iguodala was getting open 3s not because Houston didn't know how to defend, but because they were throwing everything at Steph instead. This piece of information is important when you keep bringing up that 'Steph gets shut down'. Yes, because they sell out to shut him down, which opens up lanes and space for everyone else. This is indisputable. Just look at KD's efficiency in OKC vs. his efficiency here in GS.


Yeah I'm done here. I don't know why I even bother.
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