Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis.

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Could/Should Zion Williamson force New Orleans to trade him elsewhere?

Yes
29
23%
No
99
77%
 
Total votes: 128

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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#21 » by Sprewell4Three » Wed May 15, 2019 1:37 pm

RoyceDa59 wrote:If I was Zion I’d be pumped to go to a great city like New Orleans and play for a team that already has a top 10 player on the roster. If they play this correctly New Orleans could put together a very competitive team (assuming Zion is as good as we all expect in the NBA).


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That top 10 player wants to be traded though?
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#22 » by VCBC » Wed May 15, 2019 1:41 pm

kenwood3333 wrote:Kobe did the same and forced his way to the Lakers back in 96.
Forcing your way out requires leverage, and in all instances, the draftee had leverage.

Kobe had options and no GM is going to roll the dice on no value from a valuable draft pick. Look @ Oakland A's and Murray, talk about a gut punch.

In Zion's case, he's expected to get a big shoe deal but that shoe deal is big in certain markets, not a chance he gets 100mn in NO and Nike or whomever will have that convo with him.

The plausability of Zion withdrawing will depend on that shoe deal #. If we're talking a huge diff then you never know...

Players get bespoke insurance all the time, Zion can easily find someone to foot that bill for a year.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#23 » by Percentsign » Wed May 15, 2019 1:44 pm

I'm not familar with the Steve Francis situation, as I wasn't following at the time.

I believe that Zion (or anyone) would look very bad and primadonna-ish if they pulled that sort of stunt. He's basically saying that he's too good for the city or the franchise. Just consider how many people dream about just being in the NBA, on any team or in any capacity. He has to be grateful for the opportunity.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#24 » by kan_t » Wed May 15, 2019 2:04 pm

VCBC wrote:
kenwood3333 wrote:Kobe did the same and forced his way to the Lakers back in 96.
Forcing your way out requires leverage, and in all instances, the draftee had leverage.

Kobe had options and no GM is going to roll the dice on no value from a valuable draft pick. Look @ Oakland A's and Murray, talk about a gut punch.

In Zion's case, he's expected to get a big shoe deal but that shoe deal is big in certain markets, not a chance he gets 100mn in NO and Nike or whomever will have that convo with him.

The plausability of Zion withdrawing will depend on that shoe deal #. If we're talking a huge diff then you never know...

Players get bespoke insurance all the time, Zion can easily find someone to foot that bill for a year.


He could withdraw. But that means he rolls the dice to get picked by another small market team again.

Forcing a trade needs leverage. The Pelicans has just played hard ball with AD. I'm sure they wouldn't play it soft with Zion. Zion could try but he wouldn't have much leverage if the Pelicans don't care about him holding out. He wouldn't get paid in that case and I'm sure it also would hurt his shoe deal. The Pelicans would also get full support from the league by not granting Zion wish.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#25 » by BladeKor » Wed May 15, 2019 2:08 pm

Spens1 wrote:Let me state this first, whilst Zion looks dissappointed (as would anyone when they first realise they're not going to New York to play full time) I fully expect him to be a Pelican for the next 3-4 years (at least), after that is sketchy, but his short term future is as a pelican.

However, should we rule out a possible Steve Francis situation. Basically, Steve Francis was drafted #2 by the Vancouver Grizzlies in 1999. He then refused to play for them altogether and forced his way to Houston (and honestly, it could have been the main reason the Grizzlies moved to Memphis).

Could this option be available to Zion perhaps, if he really is adamant about forcing his way to New York or any other team with the assets to be able to trade up (Boston perhaps, Atlanta, Dallas etc). What would the impact be if he did decide to pull this move, using the agents he hires.

I'd imagine his reputation going into the league would be absolutely shot by most fans and he would be villified immediately, also i do worry by the precedent it would set (as would the NBA owners).


What makes you so sure he wanted to play for Knicks?
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#26 » by VCBC » Wed May 15, 2019 2:10 pm

kan_t wrote:
VCBC wrote:
kenwood3333 wrote:Kobe did the same and forced his way to the Lakers back in 96.
Forcing your way out requires leverage, and in all instances, the draftee had leverage.

Kobe had options and no GM is going to roll the dice on no value from a valuable draft pick. Look @ Oakland A's and Murray, talk about a gut punch.

In Zion's case, he's expected to get a big shoe deal but that shoe deal is big in certain markets, not a chance he gets 100mn in NO and Nike or whomever will have that convo with him.

The plausability of Zion withdrawing will depend on that shoe deal #. If we're talking a huge diff then you never know...

Players get bespoke insurance all the time, Zion can easily find someone to foot that bill for a year.


He could withdraw. But that means he rolls the dice to get picked by another small market team again.

Forcing a trade needs leverage. The Pelicans has just played hard ball with AD. I'm sure they wouldn't play it soft with Zion. Zion could try but he wouldn't have much leverage if the Pelicans don't care about him holding out. He wouldn't get paid in that case and I'm sure it also would hurt his shoe deal. The Pelicans would also get full support from the league by not granting Zion wish.
Zion has a deadline to withdraw, if he talks w Griffin and says he's withdrawing unless he gets dealt, Griffin will deal him. There's no hardball here, no GM is going to lose a #1 for 0 value. Especially considering that Zion can make $ without ever stepping onto a basketball court.

That's a tough bluff to call and NO were never going to allow a lameduck GM to deal its most valuable asset, again no hard ball. Unless AD changes his mind, he's getting dealt. This hardball idea is BS and rarely/never happens.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#27 » by Spens1 » Wed May 15, 2019 2:12 pm

BladeKor wrote:
Spens1 wrote:Let me state this first, whilst Zion looks dissappointed (as would anyone when they first realise they're not going to New York to play full time) I fully expect him to be a Pelican for the next 3-4 years (at least), after that is sketchy, but his short term future is as a pelican.

However, should we rule out a possible Steve Francis situation. Basically, Steve Francis was drafted #2 by the Vancouver Grizzlies in 1999. He then refused to play for them altogether and forced his way to Houston (and honestly, it could have been the main reason the Grizzlies moved to Memphis).

Could this option be available to Zion perhaps, if he really is adamant about forcing his way to New York or any other team with the assets to be able to trade up (Boston perhaps, Atlanta, Dallas etc). What would the impact be if he did decide to pull this move, using the agents he hires.

I'd imagine his reputation going into the league would be absolutely shot by most fans and he would be villified immediately, also i do worry by the precedent it would set (as would the NBA owners).


What makes you so sure he wanted to play for Knicks?


Pretty sure he publically said he wanted to play for them preferably, or at the very least its been heavily implied and the media picked it up and ran with it (then again, the media will run with anything pro knicks).

Also his reactions where kind of telling, he perked up when the lakers and knicks where in the top 4, he slumped significantly when the knicks where called at 3.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#28 » by BladeKor » Wed May 15, 2019 2:16 pm

Spens1 wrote:
BladeKor wrote:
Spens1 wrote:Let me state this first, whilst Zion looks dissappointed (as would anyone when they first realise they're not going to New York to play full time) I fully expect him to be a Pelican for the next 3-4 years (at least), after that is sketchy, but his short term future is as a pelican.

However, should we rule out a possible Steve Francis situation. Basically, Steve Francis was drafted #2 by the Vancouver Grizzlies in 1999. He then refused to play for them altogether and forced his way to Houston (and honestly, it could have been the main reason the Grizzlies moved to Memphis).

Could this option be available to Zion perhaps, if he really is adamant about forcing his way to New York or any other team with the assets to be able to trade up (Boston perhaps, Atlanta, Dallas etc). What would the impact be if he did decide to pull this move, using the agents he hires.

I'd imagine his reputation going into the league would be absolutely shot by most fans and he would be villified immediately, also i do worry by the precedent it would set (as would the NBA owners).


What makes you so sure he wanted to play for Knicks?


Pretty sure he publically said he wanted to play for them preferably, or at the very least its been heavily implied and the media picked it up and ran with it (then again, the media will run with anything pro knicks).

Also his reactions where kind of telling, he perked up when the lakers and knicks where in the top 4, he slumped significantly when the knicks where called at 3.


Pretty sure he wanted to play for the hawks than a big market like new York.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#29 » by kan_t » Wed May 15, 2019 2:18 pm

VCBC wrote:
kan_t wrote:
VCBC wrote:Forcing your way out requires leverage, and in all instances, the draftee had leverage.

Kobe had options and no GM is going to roll the dice on no value from a valuable draft pick. Look @ Oakland A's and Murray, talk about a gut punch.

In Zion's case, he's expected to get a big shoe deal but that shoe deal is big in certain markets, not a chance he gets 100mn in NO and Nike or whomever will have that convo with him.

The plausability of Zion withdrawing will depend on that shoe deal #. If we're talking a huge diff then you never know...

Players get bespoke insurance all the time, Zion can easily find someone to foot that bill for a year.


He could withdraw. But that means he rolls the dice to get picked by another small market team again.

Forcing a trade needs leverage. The Pelicans has just played hard ball with AD. I'm sure they wouldn't play it soft with Zion. Zion could try but he wouldn't have much leverage if the Pelicans don't care about him holding out. He wouldn't get paid in that case and I'm sure it also would hurt his shoe deal. The Pelicans would also get full support from the league by not granting Zion wish.
Zion has a deadline to withdraw, if he talks w Griffin and says he's withdrawing unless he gets dealt, Griffin will deal him. There's no hardball here, no GM is going to lose a #1 for 0 value. Especially considering that Zion can make $ without ever stepping onto a basketball court.

That's a tough bluff to call and NO were never going to allow a lameduck GM to deal its most valuable asset, again no hard ball. Unless AD changes his mind, he's getting dealt. This hardball idea is BS and rarely/never happens.

The withdrawal deadline is before the draft. Griffin loses nothing if Zion withdraws. The Pelicans still have the No.1 pick.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#30 » by Spens1 » Wed May 15, 2019 2:19 pm

BladeKor wrote:
Spens1 wrote:
BladeKor wrote:
What makes you so sure he wanted to play for Knicks?


Pretty sure he publically said he wanted to play for them preferably, or at the very least its been heavily implied and the media picked it up and ran with it (then again, the media will run with anything pro knicks).

Also his reactions where kind of telling, he perked up when the lakers and knicks where in the top 4, he slumped significantly when the knicks where called at 3.


Pretty sure he wanted to play for the hawks than a big market like new York.


I mean i wouldn't blame him wanting the Hawks if he did say that. Ideal situation for him coming into the league.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#31 » by VCBC » Wed May 15, 2019 2:19 pm

kan_t wrote:
VCBC wrote:
kan_t wrote:
He could withdraw. But that means he rolls the dice to get picked by another small market team again.

Forcing a trade needs leverage. The Pelicans has just played hard ball with AD. I'm sure they wouldn't play it soft with Zion. Zion could try but he wouldn't have much leverage if the Pelicans don't care about him holding out. He wouldn't get paid in that case and I'm sure it also would hurt his shoe deal. The Pelicans would also get full support from the league by not granting Zion wish.
Zion has a deadline to withdraw, if he talks w Griffin and says he's withdrawing unless he gets dealt, Griffin will deal him. There's no hardball here, no GM is going to lose a #1 for 0 value. Especially considering that Zion can make $ without ever stepping onto a basketball court.

That's a tough bluff to call and NO were never going to allow a lameduck GM to deal its most valuable asset, again no hard ball. Unless AD changes his mind, he's getting dealt. This hardball idea is BS and rarely/never happens.

The withdrawal deadline is before the draft. Griffin loses nothing if Zion withdraws. The Pelicans still have the No.1 pick.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#32 » by jamaalstar21 » Wed May 15, 2019 2:27 pm

this gets talked about every year a theoretically undesirable market is about to draft an anticipated player. Your citation being 1999 is exactly how out of date your perspective is.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#33 » by johanliebert » Wed May 15, 2019 2:47 pm

RaptorsLife wrote:I still have no idea why Steve Francis did that

Vancouver is better than 95% of nba cities even Toronto

Amazing city. I’m glad Steve Francis career turned out the way it did

If Zion does what Steve Francis did. I hope he has the same success as Steve Francis

Kobe pulled the same stunt and look how his career turned out; get over yourselves lol.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#34 » by Spens1 » Thu May 16, 2019 8:22 am

jamaalstar21 wrote:this gets talked about every year a theoretically undesirable market is about to draft an anticipated player. Your citation being 1999 is exactly how out of date your perspective is.


I mean Zion is the most hyped prospect to be drafted since maybe John Wall and the media seem convinced that he's going to be their new Lebron the way they're carrying on.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#35 » by Axl Rose » Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 am

I can get the disappointment of thinking you're going to NY and getting NO but the situation isn't that bad. As someone said the Davis trade will bring in a nice a haul. This isn't Cleveland after LeBron left the first time.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#36 » by DaddyCool19 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:24 am

His shoe blowed up and he was lucky that he didn't get hurt. Does he really want to leave a 4 year contract + a lucrative shoe deal on the floor and risk an injury? No sane person would do that.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#37 » by MagicBagley18 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:36 am

I’m just waiting for him to sign with klutch and klutch telling the pels if they don’t trade AD to his preferred destination....Zion will sit out a year......joking of course. :wink:
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#38 » by VCBC » Thu May 16, 2019 10:56 am

DaddyCool19 wrote:His shoe blowed up and he was lucky that he didn't get hurt. Does he really want to leave a 4 year contract + a lucrative shoe deal on the floor and risk an injury? No sane person would do that.

Just quoting you but there are many with your sentiment, it's 2019, where sign and trade deals are extinct and anyone can get a bespoke insurance policy to hedge the very risk your discussing.

So let's throw out the monetary risk as a reason to play immediately. Most importantly, Zion could've sat out the remainder of Duke's season after his injury but scoffed so that's even more proof that he could care less. Many people are underestimating the leverage that Zion or any bonafide #1 pick has in this situation and overestimating the probability that NO or any NBA team will call a draft pick's bluff.

With all that said, he'll be in the NO next year with his college roommate RJ.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#39 » by mtcan » Thu May 16, 2019 11:07 am

This is so stupid. ESPN is just the worst for making up drama when there isn't really any. Zion is a 19 year old kid still. He's just reacting to a situation that has turned out differently in his head. They call it a LOTTERY for a reason.

Remember...this is Joel Embiid's reaction to be drafted by the Sixers back in the day. How did that turn out?



Stop this talk that Zion needs to do what's best for him especially if you are implying he should hold out to go to a big market like LA or NY...this sets up a bad precedent that is BAD for the league overall. The best for the league is to have competitive teams everywhere...not just in 2 markets. I really am starting to see how ESPN sets up these narratives...and the 26 other franchise owners should be very angry about...implying that their franchises mean nothing.
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Re: Zion Williamson (or any of the picks) Pulling a Steve Francis. 

Post#40 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu May 16, 2019 11:11 am

Theoretically speaking, would the Pelicans entertain a trade with the Knicks if Zion refuses to play in NO?

Something like the 3rd pick, both Dallas first round draft picks, another NYK first rounder and Kevin Knox? Basically the package for AD minus Mitchell Robinson.

I'm not expecting this to happen at all, to be clear.

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