Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series?

Moderators: Prez, ken6199, Dirk, Domejandro, zimpy27, bwgood77, BombsquadSammy, Yuri Vaultin, PockyCandy

Who is the 3rd best player?

Kyle Lowry
34
13%
Khris Middleton
114
43%
Pascal Siakam
90
34%
Malcolm Brogdon
11
4%
Marc Gasol
6
2%
Eric Bledsoe
8
3%
Other
4
1%
 
Total votes: 267

gpoon
Pro Prospect
Posts: 775
And1: 575
Joined: Sep 10, 2015
 

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#41 » by gpoon » Wed May 15, 2019 7:53 pm

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
gpoon wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Hes just on the court with the best player in the world (kawhi) so his + is huge? Id like to see it without Kawhi. Its easy not to get turnovers when you rarely ever look to score and have a usage of 17%. He's a spot up shooter majority of the time or a rare drive to the basket.


if being on the court with kawhi is what makes his +/- so huge than in theory shouldn't kawhi have the highest +/- since he is always on the court with himself? but he doesn't...


Different rotations of players playing with kawhi and Lowry are effecting it but I don't think its even a big gap?


it is close, but you know usage rate is calculated based off FGM, FGA, and Turn overs. Lowry could in theory touch the ball every possession, set up the offence, and still have a very low usage percentage. He could have all the assists/hockey assists, rebounds, steals, and still have a low usage percentage... just saying...
HBK_Kliq_33
Analyst
Posts: 3,490
And1: 1,475
Joined: Jul 05, 2018

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#42 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:15 pm

gpoon wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
gpoon wrote:
if being on the court with kawhi is what makes his +/- so huge than in theory shouldn't kawhi have the highest +/- since he is always on the court with himself? but he doesn't...


Different rotations of players playing with kawhi and Lowry are effecting it but I don't think its even a big gap?


it is close, but you know usage rate is calculated based off FGM, FGA, and Turn overs. Lowry could in theory touch the ball every possession, set up the offence, and still have a very low usage percentage. He could have all the assists/hockey assists, rebounds, steals, and still have a low usage percentage... just saying...


Scoring is what creates turnovers far more than passing does, kawhi averages 19 more points than Lowry and only .8 less turnovers so what does that tell you? Passing can be overrated if that's your main strength. When has a team ever won a title with its best player's main strength being passing? Lakers with magic and that's about it, even he needed the #1 scorer of all time on his team! Someone like even Jokic will never be the best player on a title team. Passing is a secondary talent.
User avatar
SK21209
Starter
Posts: 2,090
And1: 2,221
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
   

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#43 » by SK21209 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:25 pm

A little surprised there aren't more votes for Bledsoe as he was the Bucks 2nd best player during the regular season.
iggymcfrack
Head Coach
Posts: 6,119
And1: 4,471
Joined: Sep 26, 2017

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#44 » by iggymcfrack » Wed May 15, 2019 8:30 pm

Easily Lowry. Surprised to see Middleton getting so many votes actually.
User avatar
BoBBo!
Starter
Posts: 2,330
And1: 748
Joined: Jun 21, 2002
     

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#45 » by BoBBo! » Wed May 15, 2019 8:35 pm

SFour wrote:
Rust_Cohle wrote:Middleton for sure, Siakim hasn't been the same since his injury to his calf.


I don't think it's the calf that changed Siakam...I think it was game 5 or 6 where the Sixers adjusted and matched Embiid with Siakam, they dared him to shoot open 3s and midrange shots. Siakam was afraid to go at Embiid.


Siakam was definitely affected by Embiid and lost his effectiveness on drives and finishing around the rim. Embiid is a phenomenal rim protector and deceptively quick at recovering on drives. However, the right calf contusion certainly played a big part in why Pascal dropped off bigtime in games 4-7. Seemingly minor injuries to ultra-athletic guys are much more limiting than injuries to non-athletic plodders like Gasol or Lowry. Specifically, his calf injury slows his explosive first step, counter-moves around the bucket and, most importantly, his ability to hit the 3. Why the 3? Siakam's shot was rebuilt from the ground up with a unique inward rotation of his right foot and calf flexion. This helps to properly align his hips and upper body to the rim with his right-handed shot. He then puts a lot of force on the right calf when he jumps to shoot the 3. See 44 seconds into the youtube clip if you want to better understand his unique shooting mechanics and why the right calf contusion has messed it up. It's a lot more nuanced than why his dribble-drives and explosiveness at the rim have fallen off.



Nearly everyone matter-of-factly states that Embiid shut him down and that he was in his head. The reality is likely closer to Pascal getting an injury that took his difference-making athleticism away from him, limiting both his close-range effectiveness and shooting ability, and then knowing that, he's resorted to deferring to others. If the time comes (or has come) when he's fully healthy and yet doesn't display the confidence to attack the defence in classic Pascal fashion then I'd say that there's a concerning mental component.

It remains to be seen if Pascal can regain full health this series because that's the difference between a really reliable 2nd option on the Raptors versus a guy who will play D and do dribble handoffs on offence without the ability to take the driver's seat when Kawhi needs a breather on or off the court. Fingers crossed...
nikster
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,279
And1: 3,832
Joined: Sep 08, 2013

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#46 » by nikster » Wed May 15, 2019 9:11 pm

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
gpoon wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Different rotations of players playing with kawhi and Lowry are effecting it but I don't think its even a big gap?


it is close, but you know usage rate is calculated based off FGM, FGA, and Turn overs. Lowry could in theory touch the ball every possession, set up the offence, and still have a very low usage percentage. He could have all the assists/hockey assists, rebounds, steals, and still have a low usage percentage... just saying...


Scoring is what creates turnovers far more than passing does, kawhi averages 19 more points than Lowry and only .8 less turnovers so what does that tell you? Passing can be overrated if that's your main strength. When has a team ever won a title with its best player's main strength being passing? Lakers with magic and that's about it, even he needed the #1 scorer of all time on his team! Someone like even Jokic will never be the best player on a title team. Passing is a secondary talent.

Elite wings usually have twice as many turnovers coming off passes as they do off the dribble. Don’t where you get the idea scoring is the driver of turnovers, I would think time of possession and # of passes are more associated
HBK_Kliq_33
Analyst
Posts: 3,490
And1: 1,475
Joined: Jul 05, 2018

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#47 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:25 pm

nikster wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
gpoon wrote:
it is close, but you know usage rate is calculated based off FGM, FGA, and Turn overs. Lowry could in theory touch the ball every possession, set up the offence, and still have a very low usage percentage. He could have all the assists/hockey assists, rebounds, steals, and still have a low usage percentage... just saying...


Scoring is what creates turnovers far more than passing does, kawhi averages 19 more points than Lowry and only .8 less turnovers so what does that tell you? Passing can be overrated if that's your main strength. When has a team ever won a title with its best player's main strength being passing? Lakers with magic and that's about it, even he needed the #1 scorer of all time on his team! Someone like even Jokic will never be the best player on a title team. Passing is a secondary talent.

Elite wings usually have twice as many turnovers coming off passes as they do off the dribble. Don’t where you get the idea scoring is the driver of turnovers, I would think time of possession and # of passes are more associated



The poster trex_8063 had a good source that passing being the driver of turnovers is one of the biggest misconceptions. I don't know how to tag people on here though.
canadiansporter
Rookie
Posts: 1,012
And1: 870
Joined: Jul 26, 2018
     

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#48 » by canadiansporter » Wed May 15, 2019 9:28 pm

BoBBo! wrote:There's no debate that Giannis & Kawhi are the top 2 players in the series (and arguably in the league). After that? It seems wide open who the 3rd best player is... Who do you feel is the best of the rest?


Why Lowry up here? Man needs to get deported to the Scarbs
itsme23
Pro Prospect
Posts: 981
And1: 1,046
Joined: Nov 01, 2012

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#49 » by itsme23 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:36 pm

Raps fans have to taper their expectations. Milwakee is playing phenomenally this year.

I’m not huge on Milwakee but this year all their players are putting record playing performances.

I mean last year if you told me you had a team with Brogdan, Lopez, and Bledsoe as key starters on a champion ship team? I would say your next two players better be Jordan and Scottie.

But something has clicked for them and this year they are playing as good as anyone else.

Raps absolutely have to do everything right in order to win and Milwakee can prob win with making a decent amount of mistakes.

Milwakee players are just unreal this year. Don’t know if their players will keep it up for the rest of their careers aside from their obvious stars, but 2019 really feels like the Bucks year.
Showtime23
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,336
And1: 496
Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#50 » by Showtime23 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:46 pm

Duffman100 wrote:I would say it's between Middleton, Siakam or Lowry.

In these playoffs? Middleton.


Siakam not even close.

Siakam>Middle>Lowry
User avatar
binjumper
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,633
And1: 2,435
Joined: Oct 02, 2009
       

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#51 » by binjumper » Wed May 15, 2019 9:51 pm

canadiansporter wrote:
BoBBo! wrote:There's no debate that Giannis & Kawhi are the top 2 players in the series (and arguably in the league). After that? It seems wide open who the 3rd best player is... Who do you feel is the best of the rest?


Why Lowry up here? Man needs to get deported to the Scarbs


You sound like you're from Brampton, so you shouldn't be talking.
Image
canadiansporter
Rookie
Posts: 1,012
And1: 870
Joined: Jul 26, 2018
     

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#52 » by canadiansporter » Wed May 15, 2019 9:56 pm

binjumper wrote:
canadiansporter wrote:
BoBBo! wrote:There's no debate that Giannis & Kawhi are the top 2 players in the series (and arguably in the league). After that? It seems wide open who the 3rd best player is... Who do you feel is the best of the rest?


Why Lowry up here? Man needs to get deported to the Scarbs


You sound like you're from Brampton, so you shouldn't be talking.


Even worse, the dirty H :lol:
B-Ball Freak
RealGM
Posts: 12,507
And1: 7,476
Joined: Jun 09, 2003

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#53 » by B-Ball Freak » Wed May 15, 2019 10:12 pm

Middleton...for now
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 33,191
And1: 10,295
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#54 » by Prokorov » Wed May 15, 2019 10:19 pm

BoBBo! wrote:There's no debate that Giannis & Kawhi are the top 2 players in the series (and arguably in the league). After that? It seems wide open who the 3rd best player is... Who do you feel is the best of the rest?


Middleton then Lowry. but its close.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
Hobo4President
Starter
Posts: 2,250
And1: 1,587
Joined: Jan 01, 2010
 

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#55 » by Hobo4President » Wed May 15, 2019 11:08 pm

Middleton probably
iggymcfrack
Head Coach
Posts: 6,119
And1: 4,471
Joined: Sep 26, 2017

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#56 » by iggymcfrack » Thu May 16, 2019 4:45 am

I bet Lowry would have gotten a lot more votes if the poll took place after Game 1. Still don’t see why he didn’t to begin with. RPM might be a little iffy with a short sample, but when a guy’s been Top 15 for 4 years in a row, that seems pretty reliable to me. And when he’s been such a fantastic playoff performer, seems even more clear to me. On/off of +15.7 over 74 games is insane.
TheBonzaiEffect
Rookie
Posts: 1,201
And1: 1,419
Joined: Dec 27, 2017
 

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#57 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Thu May 16, 2019 5:10 am

Lopez!
dred926
Senior
Posts: 524
And1: 448
Joined: Dec 17, 2017
 

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#58 » by dred926 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:21 am

Picked lowry.... if lowry plays consistently the raptors are going to the finals... Middleton gets the benefit of playing with Giannis... Lowry has been an all star without kawhi ... lowry is still a dog defensively. Kris is no slouch as well but he wont stop kawhi.
Hobo4President
Starter
Posts: 2,250
And1: 1,587
Joined: Jan 01, 2010
 

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#59 » by Hobo4President » Thu May 16, 2019 5:34 am

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:Lopez!


Nah Lopez is first so it's either Giannis or Kawhi at 3rd.
Sulico
Pro Prospect
Posts: 971
And1: 804
Joined: Jun 16, 2011

Re: Who is the 3rd best player in the Bucks-Raptors series? 

Post#60 » by Sulico » Thu May 16, 2019 5:44 am

Malcolm Brogdon is so underrated.
He only joined 50/40/90 club this season. No biggie.

Return to The General Board