It's time to end the Playoff Lowry narrative

[pingpongrac]

He's averaging 14.5/5/6.5 on 44% from the field, 34.7% from 3. I mean he's played well against the Bucks, but Bledsoe has disappeared, somebody needs to go find the man, I'm worried about him.

It's this line of thinking that makes Lowry seem so underrated to a lot of us Raptors fans.

In addition to being solid overall on offence, he impacts the game massively on the defensive end and with his intangibles. He has taken 12 charges in the playoffs (#1, 5 more than Lillard who is #2), recovered 34 loose balls (#1, 8 more than Curry who is #2) and has 41 deflections (#5). Those stats have to be taken with a bit of context, as Toronto has played 16 playoff games, but Lowry has been making a lot of hustle/winning plays - especially late in the game - this whole playoff run.

Lowry had one of his worst offensive games of his career in the first game of the 2019 playoffs, but he has generally played VERY well since then. If you take out the 0-point game, he's averaging 15.3 PPG with a 60 TS% while doing all of the little things that give Toronto extra possessions.

[PistolPeteJR]

Stop comparing Kyrie and Kyle vs these Bucks. It makes no sense. One guy saw the Bucks focus their defensive gameplan on him, while the other has been benefiting from a defensive gameplan primarily focused on Kawhi.

[everdiso]

Lowry's RPM Rank the last 6 years (min 30mpg).

18-19: 4.75 (#12 overall, #3 PG)
17-18: 5.18 (#9 overall, #3 PG)
16-17: 5.88 (#9 overall, #4 PG)
15-16: 6.82 (#7 overall, #4 PG)
14-15: 3.83 (#21 overall, #5 PG)
13-14: 4.25 (#15 overall, #6 PG)

Last 6yrs: 5.4bpm (#8 overall, #4 PG), .182ws48 (#13 overall, #5 PG)



Just an elite, elite player.

Most underrated player in basketball, by far.

[contestedlayups]

For Lowry, it's a tale of his aggressiveness. Last night he got the switch and attacked, while in other games in this series, he's gotten the switch and has been passive. He's drawn the help on his drives, and last night Gasol hit multiple open shots on the kickback. In games two and three, Lowry was incredibly mediocre, if not terrible. Game 3 he didn't kill the Raps by taking a ton of shots, but him fouling out in the middle of the 4th quarter didn't do the Raptors any favors, even though they won. Vanvleet was awful in his stead.

Regardless, the time is not now to end the Playoff Lowry narrative, at least until this series is over. If the Raptors come back and win this series, and Lowry continues to be aggressive and Bledsoe continues to play poorly, then yes, the narrative can be ended. If Lowry goes back to being passive in these next two or three games, and the Bucks shut him down and win the series, then the narrative still clearly exists.

[MagicBagley18]

Speaking of chokers against the Bucks:

Read on Twitter

I’d love to see Lowry as the number 1 against the bucks

I won't claim to know your opinion of Kyrie Irving, but it's hella ironic seeing this used to defend him by anyone.

I mean I know I personally severely underrated the bucks as a team and their team defense as a whole. The length of Giannis and Middleton and the team defense the roster played together gave kyrie absolute fits when he got into the paint and across mid court.

That being said he has an ability to break down a defense way easier than a guy like Lowry does and kyrie was still struggling to find way to score even when he did. The tweet posted brought up TS% and ppg. my point was I’d doubt Lowry would be able to have anymore success than kyrie did and in fact he would struggle even more so.

And to be clear I think kyrie is best suited is a number 2 on a champion.

[CIN-C-STAR]

It's actually very clear. Shots made with under 2 mins remaining in the 4th quarter (or the OT) while the score is within 3. I'm not sure if I agree with this definition (I'd say that a margin of 5 points is a better gauge) but it's still very impressive.

No, it's not actually very clear.
It says, "Most clutch shots in the NBA playoffs over the last five years."
You said it means, "shots made," but it doesn't say that. "Shots" doesn't necessarily equal "shots made." One might assume that's what it means, but it certainly isn't clear.

You really think that they’d make an infographic over shot attempts?

I don't even know who made the infographic, dude. Who are "they" that you are referring to?
Do you really believe every single thing you read online without verifying the content or even knowing who is saying it?
I mean, if you didn't know the answer to my question, which clearly you don't, you could have just said you don't know. Or not have said anything at all.

[lobosloboslobos]

Can you imagine Lowry against curry in the finals

Lmao

Lowry always plays Steph tough

last 4 years head to head (6 games):

pts/as/rb/st/bl

Lowry: 26/8/6/3/1
Steph: 31/6/3/1/0

total TOs:

Kyle: 14
Steph: 21

[picc]

Im going to keep the narrative going singlehandedly, half because i believe it and half to piss OP off.

[No-more-rings]

The career playoff PER of 15.7 Lowry?

[SuigintouEV]

Truth about Lowry is this: in past years the Raps needed 100% of him in the regular season either to make the playoffs or to get the top seed and he would get burned out by the All-Star break or injured. By the time playoffs rolled around he was injured, tired, or simply out of rhythm from time missed.

So yes, playoff Lowry is usually a bit of a wildcard because it takes a lot of energy to guard a Kyrie at one end and still create at the other, while being physically worn down from a long season of being your team's best player.

But he's not a choker. He's a clutch player who's all heart, best suited to playing with a LeBron type playmaking superstar who can ease the load.

On that note Playoff Derozan gets a bad rap too. He has some weaknesses that hurt him in the playoffs, primarily a lack of length to get his shot off cleanly against the best defenses and the whistles never favour him in the post season. But he wasn't a choker and some of his best games ever were in the playoffs. He too is best suited to being a second option on a team.

You had a pair of great number twos being asked to be number ones and it came to a standstill when up against LeBron James.

[Vibranium]

Good thing you put top 3 point guard at the end of the post instead of the beginning otherwise everyone would've stopped reading at that point.

[kingofthecourt67]

Rofl. Need we bring up the threads after games 2 and 3 in the 76ers series where half of you were ready to trade him? Don’t blame the rest of realgm or the “American media” when half of your own fans think he’s a choker. He’s a nice player. But I did not see an elite player in the last series. Admittedly haven’t watched this one.

[jaybiddyforeal]

Lowry played two series with the Raptors where he was injured substantially.

- The 2014-15 series vs the Wizards where the team and Lowry himself both said he should have never played because his injuries were too severe.

- The 2015-16 series vs Indiana (and the first 2 games vs Miami) with bursitis which caused a golf ball sized lump to be growing out of his elbow.

If you take away those two series, his playoff career in Toronto has been outstanding. Even including those two series, he still has been the best playoff performer in Raptors history.



Here are a couple of my favorite moments from Lowry's run with the Raps that I remember:

2013-14 Game 5 vs Brooklyn:
- Game tied 106-106, Series tied 2-2. 1 minute left. Lowry hits a step back, fading three to give us a three point lead. Next possession, he drives on D-will, goes behind his back and scores on a floater to put us up 3 again with under 30 seconds left and give us the lead in the series 3-2.

2013-14 Game 7 vs Brooklyn:
- Had 8 PTS + and assist in the final four minutes to erase a 9 point Brooklyn lead. Sadly, missed the game winner after the coach drew up a play on the wrong side of the court and Patrick Patterson released his seal on Paul Pierce who wound up blocking the shot.

2015-16 Game 1 vs Heat:
- Hit a 50 foot heave to send the game into overtime where the Raptors eventually lost.

2015-16 Game 3 vs Heat:
- Hit a 30 foot three off the dribble with the game tied and shot clock under five seconds with just over 2 minutes left
- Next possession drew a shooting foul
- Hit the game winner in Wade's face with 30 seconds left

2015-16 Game 5 vs Heat:
- Drilled a step-back 30 footer over Richardson to put us up 6 with 50 seconds left
- Next possession hit a fadeaway 15 footer over Richardson to put us up 6 again with 30 seconds left and win the game

2015-16 Game 7 vs Heat:
- Absolutely demolished them. Went for 35/4/9/4 stl in the biggest game in team history at the time

2015-16 Games 3 & 4 vs Cavs:
- Down 2-0 in the series with a trip to the NBA Finals on the line, he combined for 55 points on 63.6% shooting to help the raptors even the series at 2-2.

2015-16 Game 6 vs Cavs:
- Facing elimination, he dropped 35/3/3 on 11/22 FGA, 6/12 3P, and 7/7 from the line with only 2 turnovers. Unfortunately, everyone else was garbage and we got blown out.

2016-17 Game 2 vs Bucks:
- Down 0-1 in the series, he was passed the ball 35 feet away from the bucket with 6 seconds left on the shot clock. 10 seconds left in the game, Raptors up by 2. Drove and hit a step-back 20 foot game winner over Brogdon to cap a 22 point night and tie the series.

2017-18 Game 6 vs Wizards:
- Scored 6 of his 24 points in the final five minutes to close out the Wizards and advance to the ECSF

2017-18 Game 3 vs Cavs:
- Scored 15 PTS + 2 AST in the final 9 minutes to erase an 11 point deficit on the road, against the greatest player of this generation, with the team down 0-2 in the series, and while DeRozan was benched. LeBron hit the game winner to basically end the series but Lowry dominated when it mattered most.

2018-19 Game Game 3 vs Magic:
- Had the game winning offensive rebound off a missed shot. He was standing on the Magic logo when the ball hit the rim. He darted between four Magic defenders to corral the ball at the free throw line and close out the game giving the Raptors a 2-1 series lead.

2018-19 Game 7 vs Sixers:
- Played one of the best all around games you will ever see in the biggest game in franchise history. He single handedly stopped the 16-0 run the sixers went on the 2nd quarter. Had the back to back offensive rebounds between 4 sixers that led to 3 by Kawhi. Drew two charges, one each on Embiid and Simmons. Had the steal & fast break assist with just under 2 minutes left in the 4th. Stopped and stripped Embiid on a post up with 10 seconds left that would have won the series but the loose ball was recovered by the sixers and eventually led to free throws setting up the Kawhi shot.

2018-19 Game 4 vs Bucks:
- Went for 25/5/6 with only 1 turnover on 6/11 FG, 3/7 3 PT, 10/10 FTA to led the Raptors to tying the series and moving within 2 game of the NBA finals again.


There are more moments in there too but these are the ones that stick out most to me. Clutch play after clutch play. Guy is an absolute winner.

Anyone who thinks this guy is a playoff choker and isn't an elite player in this league is either a troll or a moron (sorry if this is considered name calling mods).

[Baski]

I’d love to see Lowry as the number 1 against the bucks

I won't claim to know your opinion of Kyrie Irving, but it's hella ironic seeing this used to defend him by anyone.

I mean I know I personally severely underrated the bucks as a team and their team defense as a whole. The length of Giannis and Middleton and the team defense the roster played together gave kyrie absolute fits when he got into the paint and across mid court.

That being said he has an ability to break down a defense way easier than a guy like Lowry does and kyrie was still struggling to find way to score even when he did. The tweet posted brought up TS% and ppg. my point was I’d doubt Lowry would be able to have anymore success than kyrie did and in fact he would struggle even more so.

And to be clear I think kyrie is best suited is a number 2 on a champion.

Oh yeah I think that's a fair assessment. Mine was that it's pretty funny seeing Kyrie Irving of all people being given the "Put player X in his shoes instead of a number 2 to Superstar Y and see what happens" when it was pretty common until this year's playoffs to see "Kyrie is a proven winner. Always shows up in the playoffs. Could Player X also be so successful playing next to LeBron? Sure, but we can only go off of what has happened, and what's happened is Kyrie balls out come playoffs, while Player X chokes".
Of course I can't just assume you overrated Irving based on LeBron's success too, but it's still funny to see it by anyone at all.
And on Kyle vs Kyrie as number 1 option against the Bucks, I think Kyle would at worst perform the same as Kyrie did, but on the flipside, Kyrie and Derozan wouldn't even sniff the playoffs "success" that Kyle and Derozan have.

PS-PPG and TS is pretty much what Kyrie's game is about, so I personally see why it would be significant to point out that he got outperformed in those areas too.

[Baski]

Stop comparing Kyrie and Kyle vs these Bucks. It makes no sense. One guy saw the Bucks focus their defensive gameplan on him, while the other has been benefiting from a defensive gameplan primarily focused on Kawhi.

No offense to you in particular but this is rich

[PistolPeteJR]

Stop comparing Kyrie and Kyle vs these Bucks. It makes no sense. One guy saw the Bucks focus their defensive gameplan on him, while the other has been benefiting from a defensive gameplan primarily focused on Kawhi.

No offense to you in particular but this is rich

Kindly elaborate?

[VancouverRaps]

Lowry's TS% in playoffs:

16/17: .586
17/18: .659
18/19: .575

Lowry's shooting issues were always overstated. He'd get lumped in with DeMar (who was consistently bad for the Raps in the playoffs) even though he always shot much better.

But with Lowry, even when his shot isn't falling, he impacts the game in so many different ways. He's a pitbull defensively, he can guard much bigger players in the post, he forces turnovers, he takes charges. He runs the offense well and he's very unselfish. He plays with a lot of energy and passion. It's no coincidences that for years when he's on the court the Raps consistently have one of the best 5 man units in the NBA and there's a huge drop off when he's off the court.

Yeah, but like the Celtics mod articulately stated on the last page, you have to have balls to say Lowry is good in the playoffs.

Forget the actual numbers over the past 3 playoff runs, let’s just highlight that G1 vs Orlando and talk about the playoffs 4-5 years ago!

[Baski]

Stop comparing Kyrie and Kyle vs these Bucks. It makes no sense. One guy saw the Bucks focus their defensive gameplan on him, while the other has been benefiting from a defensive gameplan primarily focused on Kawhi.

No offense to you in particular but this is rich

Kindly elaborate?

It's just that I've seen so many people dismiss such arguments when they're used for other players being compared to Kyrie (my previous post elaborates it better). Like you could take the exact words in your post, place Kyrie where you're putting Kyle and any other Tier 2 PG where you're putting Kyrie here, and I can tell you I've seen 100s of such posts being shut down and disregarded as "what ifs" that have no bearing on reality in countless threads. "Kyrie balls out against the Warriors while Lillard gets swept" and the like. It's rich seeing the shoe on the other foot here. Again no offense to you, but I'm rofl at the irony.

[Childs]

The love hate relationship b/w TOR fans & Lowry is one helluva roller coaster ride.

Be honest, you wished Dolan pulled that trigger

I wished he never allowed the Bargs deal

Oh man it gave it Poetl, which helped give us Kawhi. God Bless Dolan. I wish him continued success in all NYC sports for decades to come.

On to Lowry, I remember when he scored 0 pts against the Magic Game 1, and all Raptor fans wanted his head. He's a solid 3rd option and he does the little things which don't show up on the box score. Top 3 PG.....uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[PistolPeteJR]

No offense to you in particular but this is rich

Kindly elaborate?

It's just that I've seen so many people dismiss such arguments when they're used for other players being compared to Kyrie (my previous post elaborates it better). Like you could take the exact words in your post, place Kyrie where you're putting Kyle and any other Tier 2 PG where you're putting Kyrie here, and I can tell you I've seen 100s of such posts being shut down and disregarded as "what ifs" that have no bearing on reality in countless threads. "Kyrie balls out against the Warriors while Lillard gets swept" and the like. It's rich seeing the shoe on the other foot here. Again no offense to you, but I'm rofl at the irony.

Can’t speak for other posters, but it’s obvious to me why a guy like Lillard got crushed vs the Warriors, or why a guy like Kyrie got crushed vs the Bucks when he balled out vs the Warriors.

Try not to pay attention to non-sensical posters and arguments, which unfortunately make up the bulk of the content you’ll find on these forums. People lack understanding, refuse to even entertain the fact that they do (because we’re all on different stages of our journeys of understanding the game), and think they’re fit to do way better jobs than most GMs in the NBA ever have.